lucid

[lucid]

Nice article. (http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0504/dershowitz_oppression_causes_suicide_bombings.php3 )


article 2 (http://www.jewishworldreview.com/jeff/jacoby_2004_05_07.php3)


article 3 (http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0504/dershowitz_oppression_causes_suicide_bombings.php3 )



There is no need to create 3 different threads for these articles. You should also talk about what the article is rather than just posting a link. That is if you want to keep them out of the trash that is. -RAF

[Guest1]

"Savages don't deserve a state"

Post another piece filled with subtle racism, please.

[lucid]

Originally posted by Che y [email protected] 27 2004, 07:19 PM
"Savages don't deserve a state"

Post another piece filled with subtle racism, please.
I think if you read the entire article and don't take the statement out of context it is obvious that he isn't being racists.

[lucid]

here (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=24170)
Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2004, 06:46 PM
You should also talk about what the article is rather than just posting a link. That is if you want to keep them out of the trash that is. -RAF
But it's ok to post the article on the board, and simply reference it, like bush did here (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=24481) and here (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=24864) and here (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=24203) and here (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=24170) but you can't just post a link?

[Guest1]

Originally posted by lucid+May 27 2004, 02:24 PM--> (lucid @ May 27 2004, 02:24 PM)
Che y [email protected] 27 2004, 07:19 PM
"Savages don't deserve a state"

Post another piece filled with subtle racism, please.
I think if you read the entire article and don't take the statement out of context it is obvious that he isn't being racists. [/b]
I did, the racism is quite inherent in the article.

The fact is, the way they don't talk about statehood in the article proves its racism. They just give you an idea, then connect it to suicide bombers, and you're supposed to make the conclusion that liberating Palestinians is giving "savages" a state.

So again, post another racist article, please. <_<

[Loknar]

Just because you brand a tribe of people as savage doesnt mean you&#39;re doing it for racial reasons.



and the Jews and Arabs are of the same race.

[Guest1]

There are Arab Jews, but to say "the Jews" as if they were all one race is odd.

The majority of Israeli Jews are of Eastern European dissent, Arab Jews are pretty much isolated in Israeli society.


Just because you brand a tribe of people as savage doesnt mean you&#39;re doing it for racial reasons.
Right... but branding a people savage is fine, right?

It doesn&#39;t matter if you&#39;re doing it for racial reasons or not, it&#39;s racist.

[Loknar]

Originally posted by Che y [email protected] 28 2004, 02:16 AM
There are Arab Jews, but to say "the Jews" as if they were all one race is odd.

The majority of Israeli Jews are of Eastern European dissent, Arab Jews are pretty much isolated in Israeli society.

It doesn&#39;t matter if you&#39;re doing it for racial reasons or not, it&#39;s racist.
Yes there are Arab jews.

About Eastern European Jews:

It goes back to migration patterns from 70AD



Jews were dispersed into the Arabian peninsula where Jewish nomadic tribes developed (perhaps this was before 70AD too) and the other &#39;trek&#39; was across north Africa, to morocco, then into Spain, then on into France, then to the Rhine river then finally pushed into Poland (and the Balkans). That is why many are descended of eastern Europeans today but their lineage can be traced back to the refuges of 70AD.


Also the Mossad has been smuggling Ethiopian Jews out of Ethiopia. (KGB and Mossad my favorites&#33;)

There are many different kinds of people of the Semitic Branch, the most populace of them all being the Arabs.


How is branding 1 group of people racism? what if you were a foreigner traveling g into Carthage where they use to sacrifice children to Ba&#39;al? would you think the Carthaginians were savages?

[Guest1]

No, I would not.

Calling a people savages is racism. It implies that that people is inferior and inhuman, or worse, evil.

Just because an act performed by a minority is violent and disgusting, does not give you the right to tar the rest of that people with the same brush.

Stop playing dumb, you know exactly what racism is, and it isn&#39;t tolerated here.

[Loknar]

Originally posted by Che y [email protected] 28 2004, 03:46 AM
No, I would not.

Calling a people savages is racism. It implies that that people is inferior and inhuman, or worse, evil.

Just because an act performed by a minority is violent and disgusting, does not give you the right to tar the rest of that people with the same brush.

Stop playing dumb, you know exactly what racism is, and it isn&#39;t tolerated here.

If you&#39;re speaking of branding a whole racial group as &#39;savage&#39; then it is racism. However if you brand a culture as savage that is not racism (I should have been more clear earlier, sorry).


Btw, the Phoenicians and Carthaginians practiced Ba’al worship quite religiously. I think we can call their culture savage, as to this d ay we find t he remains of infants who were sacrificed to Ba’al in jars.


btw, do you see me as a racist?

[Professor Moneybags]

Originally posted by Che y [email protected] 28 2004, 02:16 AM
Right... but branding a people savage is fine, right?

If the shoe fits, wear it.

Nazi Germany was "savage".

[Guest1]

Originally posted by Professor [email protected] 28 2004, 01:19 AM
Nazi Germany was "savage".
So is Bush&#39;s America, but you can&#39;t call the German or American peoples savages.

I don&#39;t care about attacking a country, it&#39;s attacking a people that&#39;s racism.

[lucid]

Originally posted by Che y [email protected] 28 2004, 06:35 AM
it&#39;s attacking a people that&#39;s racism.
No it isn&#39;t. Attacking a race is racism.

[DaCuBaN]

So long as you feel the need to brand anything you will retain traces of bigotry


No it isn&#39;t. Attacking a race is racism

Quit being pedantic because a stoner makes a &#39;slip&#39;. You and I know just as well he was intimating native peoples or in other words race


If the shoe fits, wear it.


This can only be applied on an individual basis. Anything else and we can just go back to line #1 of my post.

[Intifada]

first of all, the article is racist. the first one says " It follows from this premise that the obvious remedy for suicide bombing is to address its root cause — namely, our oppression of the terrorists. ".

calling all palestinians terrorists just highlights this idiot&#39;s view of palestinians. that is a gross generalisation and ultimately ignorant.

anyway there are many reasons for suicide bombings. here (http://www.parcenter.org/resources/palestinian_studies_today/studies_papers/allen_merip.html)

ehud barak himself said that is he was palestinian he would join a terrorist organisation.

[lucid]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 01:22 PM
first of all, the article is racist. the first one says " It follows from this premise that the obvious remedy for suicide bombing is to address its root cause — namely, our oppression of the terrorists. ".

calling all palestinians terrorists just highlights this idiot&#39;s view of palestinians. that is a gross generalisation and ultimately ignorant.

anyway there are many reasons for suicide bombings. here (http://www.parcenter.org/resources/palestinian_studies_today/studies_papers/allen_merip.html)

ehud barak himself said that is he was palestinian he would join a terrorist organisation.
In that sentence he does not call all palenistinians terrorists.

If that guy is a racists then so are you. You constantly post anti-israel crap.

[Intifada]

In that sentence he does not call all palenistinians terrorists.

If that guy is a racists then so are you. You constantly post anti-israel crap.

yes he does.

how is being anti-israeli racist? i don&#39;t use racist generalisations like that author did.

[lucid]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 01:49 PM

In that sentence he does not call all palenistinians terrorists.

If that guy is a racists then so are you. You constantly post anti-israel crap.

yes he does.

how is being anti-israeli racist? i don&#39;t use racist generalisations like that author did.
No he doesn&#39;t. He even says "oppression of terrorists.". Your the one that&#39;s turning the word "terrorists" into palestinians.

[Intifada]

"savages don&#39;t deserve a state". <_<

[lucid]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 02:09 PM
"savages don&#39;t deserve a state". <_<
The people that are responsible for, or support, suicide bombings don&#39;t. They deserve to be dead. Again I don&#39;t see how he is singling out all palestinians and I definately don&#39;t see him being racist.

[DaCuBaN]

The people that are responsible for, or support, suicide bombings don&#39;t. They deserve to be dead. Again I don&#39;t see how he is singling out all palestinians and I definately don&#39;t see him being racist.

That statement is very different from saying that the state of palestine does not deserve to exist. Which do you wish to assert?

*EDIT*

Anti-Israeli info, no matter how true can still be called racism for the simple fact that not every israeli citizen is supportive of these actions.

I can see why anti-sematism started up in Germany though... the question is by seeing the problems, and accepting that it is only a generalisation and not exclusively true, would you still be racist?

[lucid]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 02:45 PM

The people that are responsible for, or support, suicide bombings don&#39;t. They deserve to be dead. Again I don&#39;t see how he is singling out all palestinians and I definately don&#39;t see him being racist.

That statement is very different from saying that the state of palestine does not deserve to exist. Which do you wish to assert?

*EDIT*

Anti-Israeli info, no matter how true can still be called racism for the simple fact that not every israeli citizen is supportive of these actions.

I can see why anti-sematism started up in Germany though... the question is by seeing the problems, and accepting that it is only a generalisation and not exclusively true, would you still be racist?
I don&#39;t think that Israel should have to do anything to help the Palestinian people achieve statehood while there are so many islamic radicals over there that are supportive of terrorism. That isn&#39;t racism.

[DaCuBaN]

So despite the fact that I backed your assertion that being anti-israeli, no matter how the facts stack is racist on the basis that you are making a generalisation you still haven&#39;t addressed my point.


That statement is very different from saying that the state of palestine does not deserve to exist. Which do you wish to assert?


I don&#39;t think that Israel should have to do anything to help the Palestinian people achieve statehood while there are so many islamic radicals over there that are supportive of terrorism. That isn&#39;t racism.

The problem is that they are opposing it... Bearing in mind the only right they have to the land itself is that a) we put them there and b) their &#39;god&#39; says they are meant to be there. Neither of these are just claims to sovereignty(sp?) in my eyes.

[lucid]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 03:37 PM
So despite the fact that I backed your assertion that being anti-israeli, no matter how the facts stack is racist on the basis that you are making a generalisation you still haven&#39;t addressed my point.


That statement is very different from saying that the state of palestine does not deserve to exist. Which do you wish to assert?


I don&#39;t think that Israel should have to do anything to help the Palestinian people achieve statehood while there are so many islamic radicals over there that are supportive of terrorism. That isn&#39;t racism.

The problem is that they are opposing it... Bearing in mind the only right they have to the land itself is that a) we put them there and b) their &#39;god&#39; says they are meant to be there. Neither of these are just claims to sovereignty(sp?) in my eyes.
Israel isn&#39;t a race. Come up with another word.

[DaCuBaN]

Israeli is a nationality. If you want to be that picky then we are all the same race, and hence racism is entirely pointless. If this is true then noone can be racist, which suits me

With this as a given, you can safely assume in this (sort-of) multi-cultural world that when people speak about &#39;race&#39; they in fact mean &#39;nation&#39;

That said, when I was over in Israel in &#39;99 I could&#39;ve sworn most people were of the same ethnic background...

Of course, you know best :D

[lucid]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 03:50 PM
Of course, you know best :D
Wow, your finally starting to figure it out.

[DaCuBaN]

Yet you still refuse to address my point
I love it&#33; :lol:

I do wonder sometimes why you stay around Lucid. It can&#39;t be that you enjoy debate because you don&#39;t participate, and it can&#39;t be that you hold strong political views as you don&#39;t seem to have any solid views other than &#39;me me me&#39;

I await your refutal as always. I&#39;m sure I&#39;ll remain waiting too ;)

[lucid]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 02:45 PM

The people that are responsible for, or support, suicide bombings don&#39;t. They deserve to be dead. Again I don&#39;t see how he is singling out all palestinians and I definately don&#39;t see him being racist.

That statement is very different from saying that the state of palestine does not deserve to exist. Which do you wish to assert?

*EDIT*

Anti-Israeli info, no matter how true can still be called racism for the simple fact that not every israeli citizen is supportive of these actions.

I can see why anti-sematism started up in Germany though... the question is by seeing the problems, and accepting that it is only a generalisation and not exclusively true, would you still be racist?
I am not addressing your point because I obviously have a completely different definition of racism. To me saying something like "All middle easterners are terrorist" isn&#39;t racist. It is generalising but isn&#39;t racism. Over the years it has become obvious that liberals like to use racism whenever possible. It&#39;s just kind of pathetic.

[DaCuBaN]

To me saying something like "All middle easterners are terrorist" isn&#39;t racist

So saying something like all blacks are criminals isn&#39;t racist either by that reasoning...

I don&#39;t really care for an argument on the technical nature of the word racism. Most leftists consider that Nationalism and Racism are one and the same, but as a nationalist I do understand why you defend any line that may exist so strongly. After all being proved as a racist would undermine your efforts to remain in Che-Lives. For whatever agenda you do ;)

This is not what I wish to assertain from you though. We may well have differing views on what amounts to racism, but it is in fact totally irrelevant to the question I posed.

You said

The people that are responsible for, or support, suicide bombings don&#39;t. They deserve to be dead. Again I don&#39;t see how he is singling out all palestinians and I definately don&#39;t see him being racist.

to which I asked

That statement is very different from saying that the state of palestine does not deserve to exist. Which do you wish to assert?

So put your money where your mouth is and actually make your own views known for once.

*EDIT*

but as a nationalist I do understand why you defend any line that may exist so strongly

I of course meant Lucid was a nationalist, not myself. I hate my country :D

[cubist]

if you want to argue bullshit racism is oppression of black people becuase they are black prejudism is the rest of it,

xenophobia is calling a group of people savages,

correect me if i am wrong of course