my turn

[nikopito]

Hey, how is everyone doing? I've been checking out this forum for quite a while now, and i just decided to maybe start adding my views on whats going on. Here is some information about me.

I was born in the United States. I am an American and proud of it. I am Latino. My mother is from Uruguay and my dad is from Chile. I'd like to consider myself a Liberal, or maybe even a leftist. I don't know if i can consider myself a leftist because im not that far to the left. I have liberal values but I'm nowhere near being communist or socialist.

As far as being proud of being an American. Yeah, i'd like to say i am, but lately its just been tooooo damn hard. I'm not gonna try to be cool and say i hate america, because i dont. And i'm also not going to say that America is the greatest country on earth because thats not true and its just feaking obnoxious. I just hate what my current government is doing. So does this mean im unamerican or unpatriotic? In most peoples eyes, yes.

So right now, yeah, im gonna vote for Kerry. Sure some of you might think he's probably just as evil as Bush. But please think about that one more time....................good......i hope you understand now.

We need Kerry in office now because not only does the rest of the world hate America, but they associate that hatred with Bush. So to me it seems that the first logical step to try to do anything positive in the Middle East is to erase Bush from the picture. I'm hoping that Kerry can finally bring back some faith. I think most European nations will be more willing to work with Kerry in rebuilding Iraq. I honestly dont think that Kerry would have alienated so many nations and the UN if he were to have gone into Iraq as president. But then again, if Kerry was president WE WOULDN'T BE IN THIS FREAKING MESS!!!!!!!!

so thats basically all i wanna say for now. I just figured that i'd put the opinion of an angry american on this board for once. I hope we can have more discussions on the current state of the USA and the world.

Thanks for your time.

Viva la Raza

[BuyOurEverything]

I'm not going to address every point in your post, but I have to ask what mess exactly you think Kerry would have prevented? He supported the war in Iraq without international support didn't he? Maybe he would have bribed a couple more countries into the "coalition of the willing' and put a nicer face on all the bullshit, but what would he have really done differently?

[nikopito]

just because he supported the war in the doesn't mean he would have jumped head first into a war with iraq if he were president. Kerry never really had a score to settle with Saddam like Bush did. Kerry's daddy was never an arch enemy to Saddam like George W's. Kerry doesnt have any history with Saddam, unlike George W. who's administration used to be buddy buddy with Saddam and origonally sold WMD to Iraq.

So do i think kerry would have started a mess with iraq? No
Do i think kerry has a chance of starting to fix this current mess with Iraq? Yes

[Maynard]

You are not unpatriotic or un-American, they are ridiculous concepts anyway. I've only heard the phrases "Un-Australian" or "un-American". I haven't heard "Un-English" or "Un-Irish" before. I think you want what is best for your country, you just think what is best is different to the "patriotic police" of the right wing. They are no way, shape or form, more patriotic, they just want to get people too believe if you disagree then you don't belong in the country or that you don't "love" your country if you disagree, rather than offer a substantial argument

As far as being proud, I'm not sure..I don't think anyone should be particularly proud of the country they live in, as in many cases it's just pure luck.



I'm not gonna try to be cool and say i hate america, because i dont
There is a difference between hating Americans and Americas Policies. Most of the left don't just hate Americans, though there are some but rather some or most of the policies of the American government, which not only affects American but everyone worldwide.



So right now, yeah, im gonna vote for Kerry. Sure some of you might think he's probably just as evil as Bush

I think Kerry is different too Bush but not in the substantial way it's made out too be.


We need Kerry in office now because not only does the rest of the world hate America, but they associate that hatred with Bush
There was still a fair bit of hatred of America when Clinton was in office, not in most European countries though and their will be even if Kerry is in office as well, because of Kerry's unflinching support of the "war on terror" and of Israel. Which is one of the main sources of hatred in the middle east. If he works with multinational organizations or is seen to work with them, then he'll be more popular in European countries I believe.


I think most European nations will be more willing to work with Kerry in rebuilding Iraq
That is true but are they rebuilding the country in Iraq's interest or their own ?


. I honestly dont think that Kerry would have alienated so many nations and the UN if he were to have gone into Iraq as president. But then again, if Kerry was president WE WOULDN'T BE IN THIS FREAKING MESS!!!!!!!!

He would have tried to gain more support for an attack, that doesn't make it more valid in my view. Kerry did vote for the war though, which shows where he really lies but if a democrat was in office, I'm not sure whether Iraq would have been attacked, maybe. Afghanistan would have for sure though.

[truthaddict11]

by putting more troops in Iraq? Get real. :rolleyes:

[BuyOurEverything]

just because he supported the war in the doesn't mean he would have jumped head first into a war with iraq if he were president.

No? Seems like that's exaclty what it means.


Kerry never really had a score to settle with Saddam like Bush did. Kerry's daddy was never an arch enemy to Saddam like George W's. Kerry doesnt have any history with Saddam

If you think that's why Bush invaded Iraq, you're very mistaken. He invaded Iraq primarily for two reasons. First, more control of the oil market. Second, to get his support up and create a 'war' atmosphere. People were getting bored of Afghanistan.


unlike George W. who's administration used to be buddy buddy with Saddam and origonally sold WMD to Iraq.

The US government did that, George W. The US government has been friendly with dictators for a very long time, Sadaam is not even close to the only (or worst) one.


So do i think kerry would have started a mess with iraq? No

By mess do you mean war? Because if so, you are wrong. He voted for it. If by mess you mean unilateral war, you are still wrong. He voted for it!


Do i think kerry has a chance of starting to fix this current mess with Iraq? Yes

OK, how?

[nikopito]

you're missing my point sir. If Kerry had been president this whole time, there would have been no war in iraq. none.

now I know that the US has been alienated from the rest of the world, but yeah, Bush made it a whole lot worse. He dove head first into this war and said you know what, screw your france, screw you germany, russia, china, the UN and everyone else. now, if iraq hasnt hated us before, they really really f'ing hate us now.

so how do i think kerry can fix this. well for one thing hes actually been in the military before, so he probably has a better idea of how it works. also kerry can probably bring back friendly relations with the rest of Europe. ok? remember how Bush said, we dont need Europe or the rest of the UN, we can do this war ourselves. Now whats been going on? Bush is now asking for help from Europe and the UN cause he finally had to tuck his tail between his legs and admit to himself that we cant do this alone. Now kerry can come in and say "ok guys, now we're ready to work together and fix this". With Bush and his buddies out of the White House, Kerry can bring some unity back. Thats the main thing sir. UNITY.

[h&s]

On the subject of being "un-American," I think that Bush has to be the most un-American person out there for making his county the biggest terrorist target imaginable.

[toastedmonkey]

Originally posted by hammer&[email protected] 27 2004, 11:25 AM
On the subject of being "un-American," I think that Bush has to be the most un-American person out there for making his county the biggest terrorist target imaginable.
Isnt that a very american thing to do though?

A lot of americans believe they are the greatest country and they want to be the most powerful, that will always result in little things like "biggest terrorist target imaginable"

[Subversive Pessimist]

I am an American and proud of it.

Why?

[fuerzasocialista]

I myself am a Latino born in the U$. As far as being proud to be american, I can't say that I am or that I ever really was. Perhaps all the racial shit I had gone through when I was growing up molded my views to what they are today. I consider myself more as a citizen of the U$. However, my forefathers had nothing to do with this country and its history.

[Rasta Sapian]

nikopito, you should be proud of your homeland! :D
it sounds like you have a good understanding of your nations politics, you should use your own knowledge to help inspire others!

Together you can make a difference for you and your people ;)

If I was american I would definatley vote democratic and put your country back on the right path, the global community ie. UN EU etc. are your old friends and we want you back!

peace yall

[socialistfuture]

one thing - if Kerry gets in its going to be Venezuela thats if on fire....

[DaCuBaN]

I only want to address one point


I haven't heard "Un-English" or "Un-Irish" before

Because we've been a nation so long, we understand how meaningless a nation really is. Most of Europe is like that - it's only the US that really has a big problem with patriotism.