The endless talks of a revolution

[Subversive Pessimist]

You sit in front of your computer, bragging about your class consciousness like you were some fucking prophet, about a revolution, while you are sitting on your ass doing nothing. Some of you are talking about a revolution all day long, but when you finally discover an opportunity, you're not so tough after all. This goes to even those who pretend to be the toughest and the most fanatic of all. My suggestion is: Do some work, organize, or shut the hell up. If you don't have the guts involving a revolution, spread some FAQ's or propaganda in your community, organize meetings etc.

Some of you sit on your computer half the day. Why don't you do something at least a couple of hours a day? [no answer needed. rethoretic question].

[revolutionindia]

Hi justice

The thing is I don't spend much time on
che-lives.com probably 2 hrs a week thats all.

But I have seen some guys hangout over here 24hrs a day
Thats left to them

I agree I have'nt done much
Thats mainly because I am bidding my time.

Any revolution first begins in your mind and then manifests itself in
the outside world.

before you start any revolution you must be mentally prepared

This preparation can take various forms and for some people it might
just be posting on che-lives.com

I am not ready for revolution.But I am preparing myself for it
in my own little ways

To me che-lives.com provides an insight into
the minds of fellow people in varied parts of the world as
to how the percieve the happenings in today's worlds
and their feelings in general towards world situations and events.

also it serves as a source of info

Long lives che-lives.com

and

MARK MY WORDS

ATLEAST ONE REVOLUTION IN THIS WORLD will
have connections with CHE-LIVES.Com

hasta la victoria le seimpera!!!!!!!

[apathy maybe]

Che-lives is a forum for discussion. Ideas of all sorts are put forward, along with events of the day. There is a forum for practice.

Regardless, many people here do, do actions and educate people. I, for instance, am putting up posters for National Sorry Day (here in Australia) tomorrow. And then on Thursday will be handing out flyers about Climate Change at the movies (The Day After Tomorrow). Next week we (a group at Uni) will be doing an action against the live export trade. I also promote Free Software <www.gnu.org> as a viable alternative to Microsoft and other proprietary software companies.

Many people here do things and don&#39;t just talk. However, revolution is not something that happens over night, and many here don&#39;t even want it. Many here don&#39;t have the opportunities to do things, they may live away from population centres for example.

And what are some examples of what you have done Justice? Can we see some examples of FAQs so we can use them our selves?

[Subversive Pessimist]

Hi revolutionindia

I see what you mean for the most part. :)

I&#39;ve said, there&#39;s a lot of guys that are talking about a revolution, communism. That&#39;s good, but they don&#39;t do shit in real life. There&#39;s no excuse.
Everybody can participate. If you are a student; Discuss communism in your class with your fellow students. Write an essay about communism. If you&#39;re a veteran or at least have military service, get involved in a revolution. If you can fly a plane, you can easily help with supplies. If you have a hand you can easily pull a trigger. It is just a matter of making words equal action.



ATLEAST ONE REVOLUTION IN THIS WORLD will
have connections with CHE-LIVES.Com

What kind of connection? It&#39;s just a forum. ;)


apathymaybe


I, for instance, am putting up posters for National Sorry Day (here in Australia) tomorrow. And then on Thursday will be handing out flyers about Climate Change at the movies (The Day After Tomorrow). Next week we (a group at Uni) will be doing an action against the live export trade. I also promote Free Software <www.gnu.org> as a viable alternative to Microsoft and other proprietary software companies.



That&#39;s great. :)


Many people here do things and don&#39;t just talk. However, revolution is not something that happens over night, and many here don&#39;t even want it.

That&#39;s true. I am not trying to put everybody in the same basket. And I know it is not easy. Fair of death hunts us all in some way or another. My concern would be my family, being tortured or mutilated.


Many here don&#39;t have the opportunities to do things, they may live away from population centres for example.

If you are a grown up, you can move, or even educate the people in your community.


And what are some examples of what you have done Justice?

Donated money, discussing communism with people that has misunderstood the idea behind it, trying to educate people. I believe the internet is an easy and effective way to spread information, although your offline pressense can be more convinsing. More then that I cannot tell right here. Can&#39;t talk about it here. Not safe.

PM me if you want my e-mail, and we can talk about it at MSN or hotmail.


Can we see some examples of FAQs so we can use them our selves?

I&#39;m writing one.. Not finished yet, sorry. If you like, I can give it to you when it&#39;s finnished? :)

[revolutionindia]

Sometimes the most unlikely events in the
world can have an the most unlikely
connections.
Keep your eyes and ears open and you will
hear about it ;)

[Capitalist Imperial]

I beg for a commie revolution attempt.

I need cannon fodder.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Shut up pathetico.

A question. Loyalty to the people or the Gov&#39;t?

[Capitalist Imperial]

Such options are not mutually exclusive.

When you have government of the people, by the people, and for the people, you can show loyalty to both.

[Abby Normal]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2004, 01:20 PM
You sit in front of your computer, bragging about your class consciousness like you were some fucking prophet, about a revolution, while you are sitting on your ass doing nothing. Some of you are talking about a revolution all day long, but when you finally discover an opportunity, you&#39;re not so tough after all. This goes to even those who pretend to be the toughest and the most fanatic of all. My suggestion is: Do some work, organize, or shut the hell up. If you don&#39;t have the guts involving a revolution, spread some FAQ&#39;s or propaganda in your community, organize meetings etc.

Some of you sit on your computer half the day. Why don&#39;t you do something at least a couple of hours a day? [no answer needed. rethoretic question].
LMAO. Of course a revolution is never going to happen (at least not in the Commie sense).

[Subversive Pessimist]

Abby Normal

Then please explain why there have been revolutions in Bolivia, Ethiopia, Columbia, Spain and other countries the last 40 years? As far as I know, the FARC are fighting in Columbia right now.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Those are not "revolutions". They are small insuuurgent uprisings. None of these nations are true communist states, or even close to communist states.

FARC has no power, they are pretty-much a guerilla terrorist organization.

[redstar2000]

You sit in front of your computer, bragging about your class consciousness like you were some fucking prophet, about a revolution, while you are sitting on your ass doing nothing. Some of you are talking about a revolution all day long, but when you finally discover an opportunity, you&#39;re not so tough after all. This goes to even those who pretend to be the toughest and the most fanatic of all.

Political activity on behalf of revolution is always to be preferred to "just talk".

Nevertheless, I don&#39;t think many...or even one person can be motivated by "moral injunction" from someone else.

And even if they are, it won&#39;t last.

In order for people to move "from talk to sustained action", they must be self-motivated.

Only each individual person can convince themselves that the time for them to act is "at hand".

I might also add there are a very large number of very much worse things that people could do instead of "sitting on your ass talking about revolution all day".

They could sit on their ass all day and talk about how wonderful capitalism is, for example.

We have some examples in this forum, do we not?

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Subversive Pessimist]

Nevertheless, I don&#39;t think many...or even one person can be motivated by "moral injunction" from someone else.

That is very true. But my thread goes mostly to fanatics like Ixabert and CheateN (sure you&#39;ve heard of them). They brag about how mean and dangerous they are, how they are going to join a revolution and blow up cappies, but when they get the chance, they say &#39;no&#39;. I&#39;m talking about those who say they are going to join revolutions, killing cappies and all that shit. I&#39;m talking about those who say they want to join a revolution just to be cool. You&#39;ve got to live up to your word.

[Misodoctakleidist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2004, 01:20 PM
You sit in front of your computer, bragging about your class consciousness like you were some fucking prophet, about a revolution, while you are sitting on your ass doing nothing. Some of you are talking about a revolution all day long, but when you finally discover an opportunity, you&#39;re not so tough after all. This goes to even those who pretend to be the toughest and the most fanatic of all. My suggestion is: Do some work, organize, or shut the hell up. If you don&#39;t have the guts involving a revolution, spread some FAQ&#39;s or propaganda in your community, organize meetings etc.

Some of you sit on your computer half the day. Why don&#39;t you do something at least a couple of hours a day? [no answer needed. rethoretic question].
Why is it that if someone uses a computer at all then they must always use it. Why dont you stop sitting on your arse lecturing people on the internet, becuase of course since I&#39;ve seen you do it once you must spend your every waking minute doing it, and go out and do it in real life?

What makes you so sure that people on this board aren&#39;t politicaly active?

You suggest spreading propaganda, why is this not acceptable over the internet? Are you under the impression that people on the internet don&#39;t actualy exist in a physical form?

[Subversive Pessimist]

What makes you so sure that people on this board aren&#39;t politicaly active?

I&#39;ve never said that. I&#39;m saying that some people who say I&#39;m going to do this and that, should stand up to their words. A lot of people say: "I&#39;ll join a revolution and fight those sons of *****es any time"
When they have the opportunity, they choose not to,



You suggest spreading propaganda, why is this not acceptable over the internet?

If I remember correct, I said that the internet is a good way to spread information to a lot of people, although sometimes discussing politics offline can be just as good, depending on who you&#39;re talking to, of course.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 25 2004, 03:21 PM
Such options are not mutually exclusive.

When you have government of the people, by the people, and for the people, you can show loyalty to both.
I know. But the idea is who has your loyalty?

Would you ever support a populair revolt?
Or would you stick with your Gov&#39;t?

[redstar2000]

...They brag about how mean and dangerous they are, how they are going to join a revolution and blow up cappies...

I see your point.

Mostly I just dismiss the "keyboard commandos" as "hot-air specialists". Anyone who was actually intending to do anything "heavy" would not be so foolish as to go on a public message board and boast of their intentions.

Indeed, such people would not post at all or even register...though they might read certain things with careful attention.

Some folks have such narrow and constrained lives that the internet is their only emotional release. Mostly, they go to role-playing game sites...but I guess a few of them find their way here.

Once someone markets a "Che Guevara" role-playing game -- RevolutionQuest&copy; -- then we&#39;ll lose them.

No big deal.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Subversive Pessimist]

Thanks for undestanding. I did not mean in any way to disrespect those who have sacrified their life, worked hard for their beliefs etc. but quite the opposite. I&#39;ve actually found those that are the most careful, polite persons are often those with their strongest belief. A lot of people are, however, just trying to be a new Che Guevara. Just wanted to say this, that if your words does not equal your actions, don&#39;t say it.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by Non&#045;Sectarian Bastard&#33;+May 25 2004, 04:35 PM--> (Non&#045;Sectarian Bastard&#33; &#064; May 25 2004, 04:35 PM)
Capitalist [email protected] 25 2004, 03:21 PM
Such options are not mutually exclusive.

When you have government of the people, by the people, and for the people, you can show loyalty to both.
I know. But the idea is who has your loyalty?

Would you ever support a populair revolt?
Or would you stick with your Gov&#39;t? [/b]
I must say, that is a great question. If there was a popular revolt for communism, then by definition that would be democracy in action (majority rules).

However, in this scenario, such applied democracy would be in the interests of a historically undemocratic system, thus would the "democratic" populace be cutting off their own "democratic" legs?

This is a potential political paradox.

In the end, I would support the entity that best represents the interests and principles of the U.S. Consitution.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Communism isn&#39;t per se "undemocratic". There are more libertarian streams in Communism, who oppose Vangaurds, Leaders, any base for dictatorship and corrupcy.

Communism vs. Capitalism isn&#39;t Social security vs. freedom. Anarchism is the better developped form of democracy. No longer will others stand between the people and actual power. Nor dictators nor "people&#39;s representatives". When power is firmly given into the people&#39;s hands, then no one can take over. People will realise that leaders are not needed, no more Stalin, Hitler or Bushie :)

On the other hand, Capitalism doesn&#39;t per se mean "freedom". I take as an example the war in Iraq, most people opposed it, yet the war was carried out. Don&#39;t light out further, my only point is, that the representatives of the people didn&#39;t do such a good job. Thus were undemocratic.

If I remember it right, The Constitution - original version - was written by a Socialist. RedStar could tell you more on this. The goal of the Constitution was to protect the people against the government, the thought of The Constitution is people before the government.

Isn&#39;t a dogmatic obedience facism?

If you disagree with something from the Constitution, then put effort in changing it. That&#39;s democracy.

I&#39;d say. Read some more on other ideologies.

Oftopic: You said in another thread that I am your enemy. Why?

[Nas]

thats true, you have to be first educate yourself about revolution and be exactly sure about what you are fighting for , i am a student , what i really focus more is on educating my self about these ideas, books written by or about marx, socialism books, che guevarra, and so on , i also used the internet and this forum , sometimes i go to the library or sometimes i take books from stores, i also know music who share similar ideas and so on , i sometimes try to discuss about socialism , but i dont really do it because i think you need to be more educated on something before you start opening your mouth

anyways , i believe once i have enough knowledge and im all grown up , i need to prepare my self for what im gona do
once i finished college and start working and have enough money , look out for me , i will then finally start doing some action

watch out now , its not where you have been but where you are about to go

i see hope in the future for socialism

[fernando]

There are things we can do of course...but right now Im in a position which might be usefull for future plans...a Western education might be usefull.

Trying to find connections, a way to spread the message, of course you can go and join some guerilla movement and Latin America, but the impact of that wont be that great...wait for your time to come out of your hatch and then attack is far more usefull.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Communism isn&#39;t per se "undemocratic". There are more libertarian streams in Communism, who oppose Vangaurds, Leaders, any base for dictatorship and corrupcy.

Actually, if we are talking about communism on paper, I may agree, but notice I used the term historically undemocratic , meaning that in practical applications throughout history, communist regimes have not lent themselves well to the democratic process.



Communism vs. Capitalism isn&#39;t Social security vs. freedom. Anarchism is the better developped form of democracy. No longer will others stand between the people and actual power. Nor dictators nor "people&#39;s representatives". When power is firmly given into the people&#39;s hands, then no one can take over. People will realise that leaders are not needed, no more Stalin, Hitler or Bushie :)


Anarchism as a form of democracy does not jive with me. I have yet to read or hear a legitimate implementation and maintanence plan for anarchism. People need some order and authority. Most of the smartest mammals are from social groups wth hierarchies (chimps, dogs, dolphins). It is essential to getting things done and community cohesion. In my opinion, Anarchy is one of the most unclear and unapplicable concepts that I&#39;ve ever known.



On the other hand, Capitalism doesn&#39;t per se mean "freedom". I take as an example the war in Iraq, most people opposed it, yet the war was carried out. Don&#39;t light out further, my only point is, that the representatives of the people didn&#39;t do such a good job. Thus were undemocratic.

Actually, a myriad of polls and general discussion indicate that most people (Americans) supported the war in Iraq at the outset. Thus, I would say that the government did in fact have the people&#39;s support at that point. Today, things are a little more convoluted as far as opinion of the war, but I still would not go so far as to say that the majority of Americans are categorically opposed to it even now.


If I remember it right, The Constitution - original version - was written by a Socialist. RedStar could tell you more on this. The goal of the Constitution was to protect the people against the government, the thought of The Constitution is people before the government.

I&#39;d like to see where one determines that the constitution was written by a socialist. When the constitution was written, "socialism" as a concept was not even really formulated yet. And yes, people before the government is the concept, but that is acheived through limited government interference and limited federal control over peoples lives. Socialism is really diametrically opposed to this idea, as increased secutritization and control over commerce and the population amounts to more government control, not less.

The ideas of the constitution are pretty much contrarian to socialist philosophy, so I would be interested to see the socialist connection to the constitution.

[redstar2000]

The ideas of the constitution are pretty much contrarian to socialist philosophy, so I would be interested to see the socialist connection to the constitution.

Me too&#33;

Ever since the ground-breaking work of the historian Charles Beard, I think sensible people have accepted the thesis that the American Constitution was a document written to convey the impression of popular sovereignty while keeping all real power in the hands of the landed aristocracy (mostly southern slave-holders) and the rising merchant class in the north. After 1865, the merchants -- transformed into modern capitalists -- took power for good and have never given it up since.

The modern trend in American government is to transfer more and more power to "administrative" and "regulatory" bodies (as well as the Federal Judiciary) that are more or less completely insulated from popular opinion altogether.

As conservatives used to insist (maybe they still do), America "is a republic, not a democracy."

There actually was a "democratic" strain in early American history; their main achievement was the state constitution of Pennsylvania...which really was democratic.

It didn&#39;t last.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Abby Normal]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2004, 03:40 PM
Abby Normal

Then please explain why there have been revolutions in Bolivia, Ethiopia, Columbia, Spain and other countries the last 40 years? As far as I know, the FARC are fighting in Columbia right now.
Hah. To clarify, what I meant was that there will never be a worldwide Communist revolution.