People's Republic Skateboards ...

[Big Mike]

I have major problems with communist industry entering into the capitalist markets and killing off base manufacturing jobs ... especially here in the United States.

I used to work for a company that manufactured skateboards and snowboards in California ... but recently the market has been flooded with inferior boards from the People's Republic ... to the point where most American manufacturers are closing their doors, or are being forced to open co-opt woodshops in China just to stay in business.

You might argue here that the prices of those boards will go down, and that should be good for the consumers ... but in reality ... the prices have stayed relatively the same ... and the corporatations that can afford to build those new shops, or partner with existing shops ... are just making more profit ... AT THE COST OF JOBS in the USA and CANADA.

They are essentially outsourcing jobs to the cheapest labor pools ... and since the People's Republic more or less subsidises their woodshops and their workers (even if it is a low standard of living) ... they have become the major cheap labor souce for greedy capitalist corporations and company owners around the world.

(Doesn't that seem a lot like economic imperialism to you? Encouraged by the powers that be ... but why?)

Our government here in the USA doesn't really do anything to enforce our tade laws or install tariffs ... (for fear of loosing lucrative aero space and technology deals in the future?) So the American and Canadian working class has to pay the price, so that multi-million dollar coporations and their owners can make more money. (Does that sound good for the working class?)

Since those same millionaires are the major contributors to political parties here ... this cycle looks to be unbreakable.

Meanwhile in the People's Republic ... ruling powers are cementing themselves into strong political positions ... with the new money coming in ... and the new jobs for a large unemployed working class.

What has happened in reality is that desppite their best intentions, The People's Republic has become what China was pre-World War II ... a cheap labor souce for capitalism and a totalitarian government forcing it's people to live a life without freedom, so that a few can maintain power.

When both capitialism and communism fail the working class ... where do we turn?

[Misodoctakleidist]

You start off by claming you have a problem with communism but then proceed to ***** about capitalism throughout your entire post.

[Daniel Karssenberg]

Personally I believe Capitalism is a better solution than Communism to solve market-problems. But as you claim both have failed you. Find a balance, that's what a good friend told me. Balance is everything in life.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

BigMike you shouldn't advocate your Company. If your Company becomes succesfull, it simply means that others will loose their jobs. What you and the working class need is organisation. Only then will the Capitalists have no power over us. Organise with your fellow Chinese workingclass, do not fight them. Weakening them is weakening yourself.

[Pawn Power]

I have major problems with communist industry entering into the capitalist markets and killing off base manufacturing jobs ... especially here in the United States.

I used to work for a company that manufactured skateboards and snowboards in California ... but recently the market has been flooded with inferior boards from the People's Republic ... to the point where most American manufacturers are closing their doors, or are being forced to open co-opt woodshops in China just to stay in business.

china is not a pure communist society


Since those same millionaires are the major contributors to political parties here ... this cycle looks to be unbreakable.
this is so tru and it makes me want to puke


When both capitialism and communism fail the working class ... where do we turn?
true communism never failed the working class it never had a chance to and when soceity becomes communist eventually, it wont fail the working class

[Pawn Power]

Originally posted by Daniel [email protected] 25 2004, 05:49 PM
Personally I believe Capitalism is a better solution than Communism to solve market-problems. But as you claim both have failed you. Find a balance, that's what a good friend told me. Balance is everything in life.
i dont understand what you mean. the market incorperates the buying and selling of goods and serveses. under communsim their would be no money so there would be no buying or selling, so you really cant compare the to and say capitalism is better

[Raisa]

Originally posted by Big [email protected] 25 2004, 11:52 AM


When both capitialism and communism fail the working class ... where do we turn?
When actually was it Communism that ever failed the people?

[synthesis]

There seems to be a terminology gap here.

Mike, what's important to understand here is that China is not at all Communist. It has followed the road of capitalist revisionism - foreign (private) ownership both allowed and ecouranged - that most Leninist countries of the past century have followed; although the same party is in power, the individuals running it are far more capitalist than Mao ever was.

The folks in charge of China are not socialists or communists, they are totalitarian capitalists. They are behaving remarkably similarly to most other dictatorships which are receptive to Western interests.

[Professor Moneybags]

Originally posted by Daniel [email protected] 25 2004, 05:49 PM
But as you claim both have failed you. Find a balance, that's what a good friend told me. Balance is everything in life.
Half individual rights, half violation of those rights ? I aint buying it.

[Daniel Karssenberg]

I think it is very wrong of you-all to say that Big_mike is more connected to the Chinese working class than actually to himself. Ultimately the reason one works is perfectly out of own interest, not that of state or class.

Half individual rights, half violation of those rights ? I aint buying it.

Good point, but I do not believe he should necessarily take something of Communism, maybe something else, like his own views and principles.

[Hate Is Art]

Well thats capitilism isn't it, they move their workforce to get more profit, pretty much everyone loses out exept a few people who get a couple of extra hundered million each!

Capitilism is destined to collapse upon itself, thats the long and short of it as it is ultimatly unsustainable!

[revolutionindia]

Originally posted by Raisa+May 26 2004, 08:49 AM--> (Raisa @ May 26 2004, 08:49 AM)
Big [email protected] 25 2004, 11:52 AM


When both capitialism and communism fail the working class ... where do we turn?
[/b]
you turn to god

God will never fail you
:lol: :lol: :lol:

now tell me are you insulted by my advice or do you find it funny
or think I am insane

[Urban Rubble]

First, I'd like to welcome Big Mike and tell the rest of you to go easy on him. I invited him here, we used to argue quite a bit at skateboarding.com. He's a good guy who wants what is best for the average person, so let's not have any accusations of him being a money grubbing Capitalist fat cat. :lol:

Now, as Dyer Maker pointed out, China is nowhere near Communist, and what little Socialism they ever acheived has mostly been swept away. There is more to Socialism than a picture of Mao and a pretty red flag. I think that's pretty obvious, but I just thought I'd make it clear.

Apart from that, I really don't have much to add. I think about this problem alot, and I pretty much agree with Mike. I think it's wonderful that you are finally noticing some flaws in the Capitalist system. :P But seriously, why are you laying the blame with China ? I mean, they aren't helping the situation, but to me it seems like it is the corporations themselves that are to blame, not the Chinese. I don't find it shocking at all that this is happening, it seems to me they are just following the basic laws of Capitalism.

But yeah, fuck Chinese wood. I think the important thing for us (skaters) is to spread the word to other, less informed skaters. Don't buy Chinese wood.

Hey Mike, where are Black Label decks made ?

[Professor Moneybags]

Originally posted by Digital [email protected] 26 2004, 02:20 PM
Capitilism is destined to collapse upon itself, thats the long and short of it as it is ultimatly unsustainable!
According to you lot, it's been on the brink of collapse for the past 150 years.

It'll probably be still "on the brink of collapse" in 150 years time too. :rolleyes:

[Big Mike]

As far as the People's Republic producing skateboards ... it's just another matter of 'out-sourcing' ... and the re-distribution of labor according to who the big corporations and buisness owners can make the most money off of.

At first, that sounds okay. China gets jobs for it's unemployed and board prices drop here in the USA .... but under that is the total effect the change has on skateboarding marketing and the skateboard culture in general.

Skateboarding companies here will go out of business unless they move production to China, workers here will loose their jobs, and skateboards will start to be marketed as sporting goods items in every mainstream retail outlet possible, as the flood of cheap boards begins. The entire industry has to follow it's manufacturing base ... and that means major changes in what skateboarding as a lifestyle activity. Sporting goods compaines, that have no loyalty to the skaters themselves, will dominate the industry.

I just can't stand seeing a lifestyle that represents freedom and a state of independence, turned another SPORT ... with all the marketing and BS that goes along with it.

It's a major sell-out of a culture, started by a bunch of greedy corporations and millionaire owners looking for some easy money.

[Big Mike]

Whoever wrote the the People's Republic was becoming a totaltarian capitalist society, hit it on the head. Does anyone what that???? It sound a lot like the USA before the Great Depression and the rise of labor unions here. Slavery under the guise of work and job security .... is still slavery.

Urban,
I spoke to John Lucero, the owner of Black Label Skateboards, and he is still having P.S. Stix make his skateboards in Garden Grove, CA USA .... even tho' the owner of P.S. Stix, Paul Schmidt, is having some of his brand (Element) decks made in China.

[Urban Rubble]

Uggh, Paul Schmidt. I "got beef" with that guy.

Did you speak to Lucero on my behalf ? I hope so, that'd be cool. Speaking to a legend by proxy. That's good though, those are my favorite decks and I'd hate to have to stop supporting them.

Unfortuantely, I think me and you are the only skaters on this website. There used to be a rollerblader named "JetGrind", but he left after I explained to him how even Arlo Eisenberg admits that rollerblading owes everything about it's existance to skateboarding, from tricks right down to attitude and style.

[Big Mike]

I like Arlo ... he used to skate, before he rollerbladed ... and he's always been weird and crazy. Hyper Wheels made all the Senate Clothing and rollerblade wheels ... and they also make about half the skateboard wheels out there from So-Cal, including some of the ones we had at Select ... so I ran into him a lot.

Where did you get your information about his opinions from?

[Big Mike]

John's a great guy ... still a punk at heart ... and does what it takes to keep his vision of skating alive. Paul is such a legend, that a lot of people can't understand his selling out and moving production to China ... for any reason. BUT, he also sold his company name to Billabong awhile back ... and it looks sot me that he's just looking for the gold at the end of his run at the master of deck design. It's like Mullen and a lot of other old school 'owners' ... they are selling out to get a golden parachute ... and they figure their time it done as a rebel leader, of an outlawed culture.

[Urban Rubble]

Where did you get your information about his opinions from?

Try to find Big Brother's "Worst Issue Ever". There's a really good, really long interview with Arlo (Carnie does the interview). He came off really good, really intelligent. He basically agrees with what most skaters say, that rollerblading owes everything it has to skateboarding.

But yeah, that's kind of what I was talking about regarding Paul Schmidt. I've never met the guy, but I know people who know him. I just don't like that way he's conducted himself in the last few years. But oh well, I can't judge as I am not in his position.

[eyedrop]

Unfortuantely, I think me and you are the only skaters on this website.


There are more skateboarders here, me for example.

I used to be a rollerblader before.





It's really bad with the outsourching a anarchist friend of my brother, who started a non-profit skate/clothes shop(the shop is down now):(, wondered if he could get as cheap blanks as an internet company(50-50). When he called them and asked where they got them from they said they imported them from a sweatshop in Thailand. Well that meant that we had to boycot that shop too. It was really irritating as if he could get them as cheap as the thailand-produced board he could sell them for 10$ instead of the 100$ they normally cost here. Well we at-least saw how big profit all the importers and marketingpeople makes before the board is sold. With buying usual decks from companies he had to keep the price at 50-60 for a board.

[DaCuBaN]

This may sound utterly unrealistic, but why doesn't your friend try to contact the 'sweatshop' direct?

Offer them a happy middleground - something like $40 a board. It certainly can't hurt to try, and if it does work, you'll have done a whole lot of good - as well as upsetting the balance of the market ;)