Socialism and Europe

[Nas]

im not from Europe , so i dont really know whats going on in there, my teacher says Europe is socialist but then again my teacher says China and Cuba is communist, can someone explain to me if Europe - France , Germany,UK, Spain is socialist?
although Canada has free healthcare for everyone , that doesnt mean it is socialist.

even though i dont know if they are socialist or not , i dont trust european countries, France is suppost to be the fashion capital of the world , which means there must be corporations in there , making it capitalist

i dont trust european countries because i believe they have strong ties with USA , so if USA is doing great economically , Europe must be doing good economically

and if there is a socialist european country , why doesnt it have strong ties with Cuba , since Cuba is socialist too ??


ps: i have respect for Cuba

[Comrade BNS]

im not from Europe , so i dont really know whats going on in there, my teacher says Europe is socialist but then again my teacher says China and Cuba is communist, can someone explain to me if Europe - France , Germany,UK, Spain is socialist?


:lol:

Europe is not a country, Europe is a region......therefore "Europe" cannot be socialist, or anything else politically oriented for that matter....

Recently in Spain's general elections however, the country's socialist party was voted in, so i guess you could say Spain is on the road to socialism...


even though i dont know if they are socialist or not , i dont trust european countries, France is suppost to be the fashion capital of the world , which means there must be corporations in there , making it capitalist

i dont trust european countries because i believe they have strong ties with USA , so if USA is doing great economically , Europe must be doing good economically


:lol:

yeah those Europeans they certainly are the untrustworthy type!


and if there is a socialist european country , why doesnt it have strong ties with Cuba , since Cuba is socialist too ??


Why is there the assumption that because they share a similar socio-economic plan they have to be best friends?

Zimbabwe and Rwanda are both semi-fuedalistic capitalist states, but they fuckin hate each other.....why does socialism= a special club?

Comrade BNS

[BOZG]

m not from Europe , so i dont really know whats going on in there, my teacher says Europe is socialist but then again my teacher says China and Cuba is communist, can someone explain to me if Europe - France , Germany,UK, Spain is socialist?

No there are no socialist states in Europe. The usual argument about them being socialist is that European countries have a larger welfare system than the US and some nationalised industry, but even so, the European welfare systems are under massive attacks and are likely to be on par with the US in a relatively short period. There's also huge attempts to privatise any nationalised industry. The results of these cutbacks and attempts at privatisation can have a positive effect on workers' consciousness on a round-about way. It will more than likely push workers into a more militant mindset, one which has been worn away following the collapse of the Soviet Union and the economic boom which has hit Europe in the 90s. Countries like France, Germany, Italy & Spain have always had a more militant approach but even countries like Sweden (where the Unions are essentially tied up with the state) and Austria have seen massive strikes. In Austria, a country considered a prime example of where the unions and borgeoisie can partner each other, a country with little or no strike action since WW II, had a massive general strike last year, with a 1/3 of the population out of work. These are only the tips of the iceberg if the European bourgeoisie and the EU continue their attacks.

I have to disagree with Comrade BNS's comments on Spain. I think Spain is nowhere near the road to Socialism. The party which came to power, the Spanish Socialist Workers' Party (PSOE), is at very best a social-democratic party, the same style of party, much of the European ruling class was at some stage. This type of party has the been as vicious in their attacks as any conservative party. They may offer minor gains to Spain but ultimately still stand for the capitalist system. While many recognise this, some still say that the election of PSOE represents a major shift to the left in Spain. It must be taken into account that their election came within a weak of a massive bombing, reportedly by an Al'Qaeda associated organisation, which the previous government tried to deny. They attempted to blame it on Basque seperatists in order to deny that the bombing was a direct result of Spain's participation in the war on Iraq, something opposed by 90% of the Spanish population. Most people, left or right, do consider the bombing as massive reason for voting out the government and if this is the case, then the left shift, is nothing but a reaction, not a real switch to the left. The Spanish people must be very careful.

[Frederick_Engles]

I live in europe and the short answer is that no, we are not socialist. Italy could be, but the CIA put down any coups of any sort

[fernando]

Italy socialist? I dont know about that, I think they are very capitalistic, but then again with Italy the government changes all the time, but this time they still have the same guy who runs allthe tv channels...

[Frederick_Engles]

na already this year they have had huge strikes even when i was on holliday there were hamer and sickles everywhere in the 80's the CIA put down a communist coup there, why else do you think would make the population decline by 30 million in 25 years?

[fernando]

you think the CIA has slowly been killing 25 million Italians? :o

[Frederick_Engles]

....yes

[Invader Zim]

tell your teacher that they are a dumb ass, and to leave their half witted political bullshit where it belongs, at home.

There is not one, not a single, socialist country in Europe. the majority believe in Laissez faire capitlism.

[Frederick_Engles]

no i am a Europian there are hardly any people that believe in capitalism , most people are are the far right or mid left

[VincentValentine]

Just because Europe on a whole is further left-wing that the yankee states of amerikkka does not mean Europe is socialist.

Your teacher is stupid and she is teaching the people to be stupid as well.


forgive the assumption but im guessing you and your teacher are from the USA?

[Shane]

i live in the UK. under the Labour Goverment. - Well ''New'' Labour that has gone under a sharp shift from the left to a more Dual central position.

There is no Socialism here - Its just not as right wing as the US and has larger and much better Social welfare programs. Healthcare is National and free here in the UK, for how long - who knowns, things such as Rail are a Dual system, Private institutions run along side state run rail-services etc...

i think that is pretty much the same picture across most of Western Europe.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2004, 03:16 PM
no i am a Europian there are hardly any people that believe in capitalism , most people are are the far right or mid left
I live in europe as well, and every one believes in capitalism, hense the reason they vore for capitalist political parties, and are all conservative.

[fernando]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2004, 03:41 PM
Just because Europe on a whole is further left-wing that the yankee states of amerikkka does not mean Europe is socialist.

Your teacher is stupid and she is teaching the people to be stupid as well.


forgive the assumption but im guessing you and your teacher are from the USA?
Amerikkka? Did you get that from Undercover Slut?

ok back to topic. Im very curious what this "teacher" is teaching, what course?
We are not as right as the US, but that doesnt mean we are socialists. But then again, most Americans called Roosevelt a "red bastard communist" for influencing the economy :rolleyes:

[h&s]

i live in the UK. under the Labour Goverment. - Well ''New'' Labour that has gone under a sharp shift from the left to a more Dual central position.


I also live in England and "Labour" has not gone from the left to the centre.
They have gone from the left to the neo-conservative right.
Even Thatcher (don't get the wrong impression here, she is on my dartboard) stood up to the U$, and even "she" wouldn't have dreamed of introducing top-up fees. Blair saying "education, education, education" in '97 was a big lie!

Anyway, Europe is not socialist, but we have a few left of centre governments.
Americans thinking we are all socialst just because of the opposition to the war is stupid. Russia opposed the war, and they more capitalist and corrupt than America.

[Nas]

thanks people , now i know the truth about europe
i know my teacher is very ignorant on left politics so i always ask other teachers who know more than him for information and stuff.
i like to hear different opinions but the truth is the truth

[Nas]

Why is there the assumption that because they share a similar socio-economic plan they have to be best friends?

Zimbabwe and Rwanda are both semi-fuedalistic capitalist states, but they fuckin hate each other.....why does socialism= a special club?

because at the begining socialist countries help each other in some way, because they share the same economical system

[seen_che]

Europe is not a country, Europe is a region......therefore "Europe" cannot be socialist, or anything else politically oriented for that matter....
So true so true..... :D


Im from Finland we R social demokrats

[Shredder]

The meaning of socialism has become smudged for various reasons. E.g., to me, communism has never existed and there is nothing socialist about fascism. It is convenient for the ruling class to claim the opposite.

I once had a highschool teacher who, to my surprise, tried to explain it this way

Capitalism: private business
Communism: state business
Socialism: Both
Fascism: Socialism in a police state

I'd reckon your teacher is using a similar scheme. I don't like these definitions at all, but we have to accept that to the status quo, any state-owned industry is socialist, even when the state runs that industry as a service for the profit of private capitalists.

[katie mccready]

im from stoke in england i belive stoke is socilist as we have no capitalist bisnesses any more we just have local bisnesses. we do have mineing and the pot banks, but in the north and midderlands the bosses have moved away. so in stoke we just mope around the street doing nothing.
:unsure:

[h&s]

I live in Nottingham. You must have some sort of capitalism in Stoke. Its just too big to escape it. Anyway I bet you have BNP in Stoke, just like the rest of the country.

[gaf]

I BELIEVE EUROPA IS ONLY A PALE COPY OF US.
I'M FRENCH BUT I DON'T LIKE WHATS HAPPEN THERE I'M LIVING IN HOLLAND BUT IT IS THERE NO BETTER. I WORK IN THE WEALTH SECTOR AND WHAT'S ONLY COUNT THERE THE MANAGERS AND BIG CONTRACTS WITH OTHER BIG COMPANY
BUT YOUR TEATCHEAR IS RIGHT IT IS GOING TO EXPLODE HERE,BECAUSE AFTER A WILE THE PEOPLE WILL GET SICK OF IT AND WELL I JUST HOPE WE WON'T GET FASCISME.....
THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN EUROPA AND NORTH AMERICA IS NORD AMERICAN COULD EXTERMINATE NATIVE AMERICAN (ALMOST) AND BUFFALO WHILE EUROPA WAS FIGHTING FOR FREEDOM (1800/1936).BUT IT IS NOW FINISHED THERE IS NO SOCIALIST IN EUROPA(ONLY IN ALTERNATIVE CICUIT) THE REST YOU KNOW IT
MONNEY MONNEY MONNEY!!!!!

[Dawood]

As everyone has already said, there are none socialist countries in Europe. There have been socialists, and even communists, in power, but they have not had enough power to actually change society.

In Sweden The Social Democratic Workers Party rules (since 70 years, with only being voted from power ONCE in that time!) but still we don't have socialism. We had what was called "The peoples home", which meant welfare for all, during a period, but that is all gone now. The social democrats have betrayed the values they once stood for. "Socialsm" dissapeared from their programme sometimes in the 80's I think. They allowed private schools in 94. They gave up neutrality and antimilitarism long ago.
A small group of socialist are still in the party, but the battle is lost there. And the Leftist Party (Formerly the communist party) is not worth the bother to vote for either, even though the leader of the party calls himself a communist.

[Shane]

There is no Socialsim, i talk to alot of Americans who think the UK has a good handful of Socialist values..not the case, the system in power is newLabour.

How ever shocking it may seem the Facist BNP is taking a huge foothold in Northern England (where i live). Northern england is an industrial region, with its main industry gone - mining Northern england is much more ''poorer'' compared to the south, a typical house price up here is around £60,000, in Southern england its around £250,000. its a poor region, the BNP has managed to manipulate this sorry fact and blame it on outrageous things, eg asylum seekers, etc, due to this they have got a huge foothold, the town i live in is a very strong BNP-far right area. I see no chance in the near future of Socialsim taking a hold here

[Kez]

Shane,

you shouldnt be so pessimistic.

This BNP reaction will soon end, but only if the workers will do it, and we must convince them to do so.

you tried talking to local trade unnion leaders?

[VincentValentine]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2004, 10:15 PM
Shane,

you shouldnt be so pessimistic.

This BNP reaction will soon end, but only if the workers will do it, and we must convince them to do so.

you tried talking to local trade unnion leaders?
No, we should destroy the BNP in a short bloody civil war.

These people need killing, there is no other way to deal with these people.

[James]

who do you percieve "these people" to be?
The majority of "BNP supporters" arn't actually BNPists at heart. They are fast becoming the alternative vote.
Its the product in part, of a political system (or parties) which is percieved to be failing/slow/insufficient etc etc

Alot of the time racists are just naive people who have inherited such views. They can be helped.