2004 elections

[Comrade Latino]

I'm just curious to know...

[Umoja]

I'd vote for a party that represents my interest, because I vote my hopes, not my fears.

[Maynard]

Ha, you could have Nader there or the Green party or Walt Brown for instance. I'm an Australian citizen, I won't be voting, except in our elections which will come before the American one, which I have too do if I don't want too be fined. However, John Kerry has been given up on even by progressive liberals, he's even considering John McCain too be his vice president.
However, the American electoral system is by far one of the worst in the "developed" world, it will always come down too voting for the lesser of two evils.
The only hope I have for Kerry is that if he gets elected he will stop looking too outlaw abortions, his other policies, especially foreign policy doesn't inspire me with any confidence at all. I can't see any real difference in foreign policy between the two.
So far it's Kerry at 46 percent and Bush at 45 percent, so it could be another close one.

[Kurai Tsuki]

There is no option for Nader.

[redstar2000]

Demonstrate Against Fake "Elections"! (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=24823&st=0)

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

While I dislike the man and his entire party, I highly doubt this will happen. It would completely give away the sham that the Democrats and Republicans have going for them.Right now everyone thinks they're enemies. :lol: yeah right....

[apathy maybe]

I have written a lovely essay on the matter (which even though I handed in, I *still* got an extension and now it is even better)(yes I will post the new one sooner or later).

Ignore what redstar2000 says, I say vote for a socialist or Nader. While your vote won't count in electing anyone, it will add one more vote to the leftists.
And at the same time advocate for change, stand for election yourself (school board, sherif etc) on a leftist platform. You can make a difference. If you're over 18 (and in the USA), you stand for so many offices. While your system is screwed this fact alone (almost) makes it a good political system (but there are lots of other problems, such as how votes are counted, money matters etc).

[BuyOurEverything]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2004, 06:59 PM
Demonstrate Against Fake "Elections"! (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=24823&st=0)

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas
You know, eventually you're going to reach a point where you've written extensively about absolutely everything and will simply be able to post links to your writing in debates and never have to write anything ever again. :lol:

Anways, I'd never vote for either of those disgusting corporate parties.

[SonofRage]

Don't Just Vote (http://www.dontjustvote.com)

[cubist]

if you don't vote you can't complain,

Vote bush possibly risk the europeaNS LIVES FROM ETRRORIST ATTACK, BUT accelorate THE ECOMINC DESTRUCTION OF AMERICA

excuse caps accidental,

Vote kerry and watch reactive imperialism and ultra minor social reform and still risk the europeans lives from terrorists but decelerate americas economic destruction,

or vote niether and just moan

[redstar2000]

And at the same time advocate for change, stand for election yourself (school board, sheriff etc) on a leftist platform. You can make a difference. If you're over 18 (and in the USA), you [can] stand for so many offices.

Emphasis added.

Probably the only thing sillier than voting in bourgeois elections is running for office in them.

The time and expense is large; the reward is too small to measure. You will finish in last place or close to it.

And even if you were to win, you would make absolutely no difference at all.

Sorry about that.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[(*]

I'm votin' for DEEZ

[apathy maybe]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2004, 12:39 AM

And at the same time advocate for change, stand for election yourself (school board, sheriff etc) on a leftist platform. You can make a difference. If you're over 18 (and in the USA), you [can] stand for so many offices.

Emphasis added.

Probably the only thing sillier than voting in bourgeois elections is running for office in them.

The time and expense is large; the reward is too small to measure. You will finish in last place or close to it.

And even if you were to win, you would make absolutely no difference at all.

Sorry about that.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas
You misunderstand, I am not telling people to stand for Governer or fancy things like that, I am telling people to stand for the school board, or the local council. Things at a local level (which is the easiest place to get elected) make changes to people's lives more often then things at a higher level.

If you get on the council you can,
1) Introduce recycling (in both the council and the community). (Make sure it is recycled)
2) Change the fleet of cars to a more economical type (saves money on petrol AND saves emmissions).
3) Introduce guards on light poles (not people, like a flash guard). These can mean that you can use lower wattage globes (which means less power being used (saves money AND emmisions)), and this saves money AND reduces light polution).
4) etc.

Don't listen to redstar2000 on matters of local politics. This is were you can get elected AND make a difference. In fact in Australia and the UK (and Canada (I think) and all those other countries) you can get elected to the local council as well. And do these things, and so many more. These make a real difference to people's lives and help save money and the environment.

[Ian]

Originally posted by apathy [email protected] 23 2004, 11:48 AM
In fact in Australia and the UK (and Canada (I think) and all those other countries) you can get elected to the local council as well.
Most people in local council are local businesspeople. They don't cause any change.

[apathy maybe]

But if you get elected (and you get others of your like to get elected) you can make a change. And not only that, the options for saving money should appel to local business people. You could promise to lower rates (or something).

[apathy maybe]

Damn it this is in chitchat. I don't get posts that are insightful (like those above) counted in chitchat. I think I might complian.



(All right joke, but 'cause it is in chitchat somepeople might not see it.)

[Guest1]

So move it.

[redstar2000]

I am telling people to stand for the school board, or the local council. Things at a local level (which is the easiest place to get elected) make changes to people's lives more often then things at a higher level.

Both school boards and city councils have the power to award contracts...feed money to local businesses.

As you might imagine, these local businesses take local politics very seriously...and make every effort to insure that "their guys" have enough campaign money to win.

There are occasions where a "grass-roots reformist" actually does win -- you need a huge number of door-to-door volunteers to pull it off.

But a seat on the school board or the city council is...a seat. You will be casting a lot of "no" votes and your proposals are unlikely to pass unless there's a way for local businessmen to make money from them.

You seem to be under the impression that bourgeois politics is a "rational search" for the "best policy"...when it is nothing of the sort.

It's about the money.


Don't listen to redstar2000 on matters of local politics. This is where you can get elected AND make a difference.

Listen to redstar2000. You probably can't get elected and even if you could, it won't make any difference.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[James]

I agree apathyM - at least regarding the UK.
I'd say local politics is "the way" - get local support, get some seats: and make a difference. The press will catch onto local success, then the national press will get wind of it.

Concentrate on local elections first - and then you can have a chance with the bigger elections (this is what the greens have done with lancashire, and now trying with the europeans).

Recycling is dramatically increasing in my local area - once upon a time it seemed like a crazy idea, put forward by a party which "only" had one seat.


Ignore redstar - the only thing his suggestions would achieve is a bigger mandate for the centre right. Not what we need.

[Funky Monk]

You both raise some important issues, on one level participation in the political system is vital if you want anything to change. On the other however there are some cases where it is clearly pointless.

My local councillor is a Tory, my three MEPs are Tory i live in a Tory stronghold, my vote wont make a difference.

[Raisa]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 12:37 PM
if you don't vote you can't complain,

YES. You can.

[DaCuBaN]

if you don't vote you can't complain

If you don't vote, you can't complain about who is in - but you can shout out how bad they all are regardless ;)

Besides.... I thought 'freedom of speech' was so respected over your side of the pond :D :P

[apathy maybe]

I can't move this thread, but I can ask redstar2000 to move it. redstar2000 can you move this thread to say, politics?

Because so many reforms save money, businesses are likely to go along with them. If you have a system of multi-member proportional voting you can get in. If you have a system of single-member first-past-the-post you can get in (just generate enough opposition and you can split the vote). Michael Moore got elected to his school board when he was 18, he was elected by students.
Just remember, once you are elected, you are likely to continue to get elected while you continue to stand. And once you show that your reforms are going to benifit everyone, everyone will support them. Once those reforms have been past, then you can move to other reforms.

[h&s]

You should spoil your paper if you think that your vote won't do anything.
This way you show your disgust at the lack of choice and you can complain about who did get in because you voted!

[Dsunsetlover]

something is seriously wrong with you if you vote for Bush!

[James]

In the UK no one knows if you spoil your paper - i.e. it isn't officially counted or recorded.

I think this will become the next UK parliamentary reform; although i don't think it will come for a few years yet. It needs to be made an issue by the people - otherwise the politicians won't act.

[refuse_resist]

It was so obvious the elections of 2000 were rigged. Especially with everything that happend in Florida, thousands were stripped of their right to vote. Talk about land of the free...

[fuerzasocialista]

I cannot remember the name of the African-American man the ran under the Socialist Party ticket in 2000. I believe that he was based out of Atlanta. If memory serves me correct he was a Democratic Socialist. I'm going to do some more investigating. Does anyone know who I am talking about?

[Edward Penishands]

It's Ralph Nader folks. Nader 2004 & 2008. Motherfuck Bush and Kerry.