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Skeptic
14th May 2004, 22:26
Yesterday I posted a long article on the topic Fascism and the movie 'The Passion of Christ' by Mel Gibson, and in the article was a list of factors that make a country Fascist, which I thought was very interesting. Certainly, like Hitler's Germany was, the USA is the center of hate and reaction on the planet. How close is the USA to being an 'openly terroristic' form of government? We have secret prisons now, much of the 'rule of law' has been suspended by the Patriot Act, the President can lock up forever whomever he pleases; Elections are fraudulent in the extreme and most of the power has been shifted to the execuative branch of government, so the USA could be on the cusp of being a non parlamentary state. The economic corruption is so outrageous that 4 trillion dollars have been secretly stolen by the ruling class from U.S. tax coffers since 1997. U.S. Governmental forces are blowing up buildings domenstically and Internationally from Oklahoma, to Manhattan, Washington, Bali, and Madrid. The world groans under the boots of the U.S. military oppression with it's aggressive and immoral war on the world. The spector of Christian Fascism permiates culture. TV wallows in Fascistic beauty standards, magazines are reporting that women are running to get unnecessary plastic surgery. The United Snakes has more people in prison per capita than any other country in the world and our prisons as absolute torture hell holes with guards abusing and even killing inmates with almost complete impunity. The police patrol many sections of cities like an occupying army, doing whatever they please, similar to the Gestapo.

Also how much longer will people feel safe posting their radical beliefs on the Internet?

Here are the factors that are listed in the article:

> Recently a political scientist, Dr. Lawrence Britt, wrote an article
> naming fourteen characteristics of fascism. He based his study on an
> examination of the regimes of Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Suharto and
> Pinochet. (For the record, we need to remind ourselves that four of
> these men were Roman Catholics never excommunicated by their church--all
> except Suharto.) A summary of Britt's points follow.
>
>
> 1. Powerful and continuing nationalism employing constant use of
> patriotic slogans, symbols, songs, flags.
> 2. Disdain for the recognition of human rights because security needs
> outweigh human rights which can be ignored.
> 3. Using enemies as scapegoats for a unifying cause.
> 4. Supremacy of the military.
> 5. Rampant sexism including more rigid gender roles and anti-gay
> legislation.
> 6. Controlled mass media.
> 7. Obsession with national security driven by a politics of fear.
> 8. Religion and Government are intertwined especially in rhetoric
> employed by its leaders.
> 9. Corporate power is protected--industrial and business aristocracies
> put government leaders into power and keep them there creating a
> mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
> 10. Labor power, which represents one of the few threats to fascism, is
> suppressed.
> 11. Disdain for intellectuals and the arts and hostility to higher
> education along with censorship of arts or refusal to support the arts.
> 12. Obsession with crime and punishment.
> 13. Rampant cronyism and corruption.
> 14. Fraudulent Elections.

Tell me what you think. --Skeptic

Salvador Allende
15th May 2004, 01:51
Well, I have long seen that George W. Bush and his nationalism and imperialism was quite Fascist. Remember that Germany (1933-1945) is not the model example of the Fascist state, rather Italy (1922-1945) is the model example for Mussolini technically invented Fascism. Once you compare Italy under Mussolini to the USA under Bush you can see extremely many similarities as you have pointed out.

Severian
15th May 2004, 06:05
Nope, all that's characteristic of capitalist "democracy". Fascism's worse, and you'll know when it's coming.

There are fascist movements in the U.S. and other countries, which it's important to oppose and not take lightly....

In the U.S., for example, the leading spokesman for fascism is Patrick Buchanan.

Skeptic
15th May 2004, 20:57
Originally posted by Salvador [email protected] 15 2004, 01:51 AM
Well, I have long seen that George W. Bush and his nationalism and imperialism was quite Fascist. Remember that Germany (1933-1945) is not the model example of the Fascist state, rather Italy (1922-1945) is the model example for Mussolini technically invented Fascism. Once you compare Italy under Mussolini to the USA under Bush you can see extremely many similarities as you have pointed out.
Yes, Salvador Allende, as you can see from my post this is my opinion. That the similarities are profound and deep between what was Fascism in Europe and the growing spector of Fascism in the United States. The Empire needs war and conquest, but where there is oppression, there is resistance. Perhaps the Imperialists have lifted a rock only to drop it on their feet with their aggressive invasion of the Middle East, the PNAC war on the world is making things polarize quickly. What kind of changes will this bring domestically is an imprtant consideration too. The old alliances of WWII between Europe and the USA may fail, or even now Russia may re-elign with Europe. Look at the opening created in Nepal with the vile Imperialists busy elsewhere. I would describe as 'openly terroristic' blowing up your own buildings to move the country to the right. It's time to stand up and speak out.

Skeptic
15th May 2004, 21:08
Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2004, 06:05 AM
Nope, all that's characteristic of capitalist "democracy". Fascism's worse, and you'll know when it's coming.

There are fascist movements in the U.S. and other countries, which it's important to oppose and not take lightly....

In the U.S., for example, the leading spokesman for fascism is Patrick Buchanan.
Bourgeois democracy is sick and merciless enough on it's own, I agree with you on this point Severian. But don't you think there is about one fraction of one degree separation between Buchanon and Bush? Both are fundamentalist religious kooks. Bush already has secret prisons, new repressive laws, a war on the world. I don't expect U.S. fascists to use the swastika symbol or a KKK custom. They will be wearing Black Police uniforms with big old stars and stripes patches on them. How would Pat Buchanon's republic be different from W. Bush's country? How will we know when it's coming? What will be the tell tale signs? What is missing in this equation Severian?

mEds
15th May 2004, 21:14
i would have to say that the united state sis a smei facist nation. look at all this pro-america crap, blind patriotism etc. I follow what I learn and understand not some blind neo-facist state.

DORRI
16th May 2004, 21:29
it's exactly the subject of my mom's thesis which she is working on right now.I'll share the result with you when it is finished ;)

VukBZ2005
16th May 2004, 22:06
Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2004, 09:14 PM
i would have to say that the united state sis a smei facist nation. look at all this pro-america crap, blind patriotism etc. I follow what I learn and understand not some blind neo-facist state.
Personally, I Kind of Agree with You...

Eastside Revolt
16th May 2004, 23:14
Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2004, 09:29 PM
it's exactly the subject of my mom's thesis which she is working on right now.I'll share the result with you when it is finished ;)
It doesn't really ned a big thesis statement but good for her :D .

America is ruled by a military-industrial complex.

Fascism is a marriage between the military and the corporations.

It's quite simple.

Touchstone
17th May 2004, 19:02
It is very much a fascist sate. It is becoming more so under Bush. The Patriot Act and Homeland Security have helped the slide toward fascism.

SittingBull47
18th May 2004, 00:05
Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 10:26 PM
How close is the USA to being an 'openly terroristic' form of government?
America has it's own definition of torture. it's sometimes called interrogation or aggressive trials. People are fooled by these words, so if the US were to ever become "openly terroristic" in the eyes of another country, most americans would shake them off as ignorant.

Pejoeang
19th May 2004, 00:50
From what I've read and heard, America has changed so much since I've benn there back in the early 90s. This all reminds me to The Majestic when Jim Carrey's character (forgot his name) faces that Un-American Commitee and talks about how America has changed and forgotten the sacrifices of the WW2 veterans and says something like: "Your America is cold and bitter." That part was so cool! :)

But yes, it worries me a lot that the world's single "superpower" is becoming more fascist. I wonder how long it'll take until we see Bush Youth patrols in the streets of America.

Another quote from the Majestic I got from IMDB.com:

"This is a free country, you can be a communist if you want to be a communist!"

Gee, probably not in Dubya's country...

Agent provocateur
19th May 2004, 00:54
I live in the U.S. and I feel that corporate power is the biggest fascist influence on our country. Everything else--- like the Constitution for example (which I believe is corporate-centric)----- revolves around corporations. Not to mention the media etc.
We are living in a fascist state already!

Touchstone
21st May 2004, 16:12
Exactly.