pandora
14th May 2004, 05:12
Quote from Redstar 2000: [sent privately to post here]
"Communism is about liberation from wage-slavery...it means we guide our lives without having to worry about having enough to eat, a roof over our heads, clothes to wear, etc. We are, consequently, "autonomous" to a degree unprecedented in human history...but what will life be like for those who literally can't be autonomous? Who require someone's help for even the most basic necessities?
How can you "decide" what to wear or what to eat if your "care-giver" has other ideas? How can you "participate" in a collective if you are unable to think?
Everything I've written on the subject of communism presupposes a society run by and for people of normal (or better) intelligence...and at least sufficient physical wellness to "look after themselves".
The problem of the seriously disabled, therefore, really stumps me."
Pandora:****Sorry to spoil the party but this limiting ways of thinking. The theories exposed here only relate to what has been written by the white man, when you talk about communal principals as have been expoused by native communities from the local community in North America, to Brazil, and the Mayan the idea of community in the Revolution against oppression is very different than what you have described. More often it speaks about communal lands, communal fishing rights, and the ability to work together as a tribe or community.
I am coming from a meeting with Native people here where I live and the idea of self-efficiency that you espouse here is wrong. Almost all native societies, particularly in the Americas, but also in Japan, etc. point to a community that works together, and where everyone and everything is part of a system that works together towards a whole, where no one is seperate.
When you make your remarks regarding the elderly and disabled as to efficiency, in a trually communal society the elders and those who in the Great Plains were seen as owned by the "Great Spirit" who you may see as suffering from Down Syndrome were regarded as special and held with reverence of a wisdom that went through and beyond this world. When you take away what such people give to a society, you deplete a society, ho.
What needs to happen in any Communist society that is going to function is we need to get away from thinking only by the White Man's logic or we're going to kill this planet. It is no mistake that wherever the logic of the White Man goes that his culture teaches him to take past what is sustainable harvest and cheat others out of what is sustainable to them [Iraq, etc.]
This relates to the conversation about people with disabilities as well. If a society stops being selfish in it's intention and creates acts that are self-sustaining and community inspiring than they soon find that the disabled, children and elderly tend to bring community around them. The goals of these groups tend to build community, whereas selfish goals for self and towards isolation, break down community and all that is worth truly being alive for is the conflict that we as a human race need to consider and get past to survive.
b]Communism to me is about community[/b],it is about recognizing that we are all threads in the carpet, and that we only become truly human in any true sense when we serve others. People with exceptionalities [disabilities], children and elderly people give us such a gift, first with their wisdom. All three groups tend to be more in touch with their bodies, more in touch with the earth, and more concerned with here and now, for children out of curiosity, but for the other two groups because they know they may not be here tomorrow and every day is a blessing.
Often due to the crap people with even severe disabilities have to go through on a daily basis, they are more open to people who are different like themselves. I have found great acceptance among the people in the disabled community when the regular community could not relate to me, because they were not relating to the person only their perception.
When we are forced to depend on others we bring out their kindness. This is the greatest gift we can give another human being, therefore people with disabities, elderly and children should be honored citizens in our community. :P
"Communism is about liberation from wage-slavery...it means we guide our lives without having to worry about having enough to eat, a roof over our heads, clothes to wear, etc. We are, consequently, "autonomous" to a degree unprecedented in human history...but what will life be like for those who literally can't be autonomous? Who require someone's help for even the most basic necessities?
How can you "decide" what to wear or what to eat if your "care-giver" has other ideas? How can you "participate" in a collective if you are unable to think?
Everything I've written on the subject of communism presupposes a society run by and for people of normal (or better) intelligence...and at least sufficient physical wellness to "look after themselves".
The problem of the seriously disabled, therefore, really stumps me."
Pandora:****Sorry to spoil the party but this limiting ways of thinking. The theories exposed here only relate to what has been written by the white man, when you talk about communal principals as have been expoused by native communities from the local community in North America, to Brazil, and the Mayan the idea of community in the Revolution against oppression is very different than what you have described. More often it speaks about communal lands, communal fishing rights, and the ability to work together as a tribe or community.
I am coming from a meeting with Native people here where I live and the idea of self-efficiency that you espouse here is wrong. Almost all native societies, particularly in the Americas, but also in Japan, etc. point to a community that works together, and where everyone and everything is part of a system that works together towards a whole, where no one is seperate.
When you make your remarks regarding the elderly and disabled as to efficiency, in a trually communal society the elders and those who in the Great Plains were seen as owned by the "Great Spirit" who you may see as suffering from Down Syndrome were regarded as special and held with reverence of a wisdom that went through and beyond this world. When you take away what such people give to a society, you deplete a society, ho.
What needs to happen in any Communist society that is going to function is we need to get away from thinking only by the White Man's logic or we're going to kill this planet. It is no mistake that wherever the logic of the White Man goes that his culture teaches him to take past what is sustainable harvest and cheat others out of what is sustainable to them [Iraq, etc.]
This relates to the conversation about people with disabilities as well. If a society stops being selfish in it's intention and creates acts that are self-sustaining and community inspiring than they soon find that the disabled, children and elderly tend to bring community around them. The goals of these groups tend to build community, whereas selfish goals for self and towards isolation, break down community and all that is worth truly being alive for is the conflict that we as a human race need to consider and get past to survive.
b]Communism to me is about community[/b],it is about recognizing that we are all threads in the carpet, and that we only become truly human in any true sense when we serve others. People with exceptionalities [disabilities], children and elderly people give us such a gift, first with their wisdom. All three groups tend to be more in touch with their bodies, more in touch with the earth, and more concerned with here and now, for children out of curiosity, but for the other two groups because they know they may not be here tomorrow and every day is a blessing.
Often due to the crap people with even severe disabilities have to go through on a daily basis, they are more open to people who are different like themselves. I have found great acceptance among the people in the disabled community when the regular community could not relate to me, because they were not relating to the person only their perception.
When we are forced to depend on others we bring out their kindness. This is the greatest gift we can give another human being, therefore people with disabities, elderly and children should be honored citizens in our community. :P