Pedro Alonso Lopez
13th May 2004, 22:18
Redstar believes that Nietzsche is one of the many philosophers who got it wrong, sometimes he asserts philosophers get it right but overall they get it wrong. Redstar is clearly somebody influenced by an Enlightenment version of reason, that is a strict combination of rationalism and empricism. All very well but he suggests that we are very uncritical of our idols here such as Nietzsche who we often quote because we want and I quote him here from this thread:
I think Nietzsche appeals to some young "rebels" simply because of his "outrageousness" -- especially his scathing attacks on Christianity.
http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?s...32&hl=nietzsche (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=22832&hl=nietzsche)
Perhaps Redstar fails to realise that Nietzsche is first and foremost not a political philosopher which causes obvious differences between Marx from whom we all I am guessing have taken an interest and most likely accepted his theories most likely in relation to class antagonism being irreconciable. Well Nietzsche' concern is not with wage labour or anything of the sort, his interest is in cultural spirituality regardless of the state of affairs that a society finds itself in. In fact he called for 'As little state as possible' which I sure we can all agree sounds very unlike anything a fascist would dare utter.
Also Nietzsche marks a departure from the Romantic peroid and is essentially reacting against Victorian morals, keep this in mind, context is important and you know it.
You must realise that the history of philosophy has reached a point since just before Nietzsche where all the major theories have more or less been put forth, Spinoza, Hume or Kant all contributed in their own way but Nietzsche used a different method.
All have systematic grand systems but all have been shown to have holes, Nietzsche avoided this by short aphorisms and quick dips into thought. Now I know you will say it is because he has nothing to say but thats besides the point, a problem with Nietzsche is that he is often provoking the reader to think and his aphorism are easily taken out of context. Now I know you will presume me to be being uncritical but I have pointed out elsewhere that Nietzsche was not always anti-feminist or why he may have been so wary of women considering his life. No excuse perhaps but sometimes you make posts with the aim of making him seem reactionary which is untrue.
The most obvious example:
"When thou goest unto woman to teach, forget not thy whip".
When he says bring your whip he means that he believes women enjoy men dominating them.
He did not mean this in some evil wife beating, physically use a whip manner. It was his way of providing a psycholigical insight.
First of all, I am looking at it from a symbolic manner because that is generally how Nietzsche works. We arent talking about mathematics or manner of lateral thinking. His is an irationalist philosophy, it is at times incoherent and contains a vasy array of downright sexist aphorims.
Nietzsche however isn't a social commentator, he is trying to provoke at every turn reactions about every topic.
His philosophy is a critical analysis of culture.His demands of science, religion and morality ask for a completely new orientation of the modern conciousness.
Some more quotes of his on women:
The more womanly a woman is, the more she fights tooth and nail against rights in general. The natural order of things, the eternal war between the sexes, assigns her by far the foremost rank
Woman understands children better than man, but man is more childish thyan woman
Some I posted elsewhere:
Women have intelligence; men have character and passion
Stupidity in a woman is unfeminane
Is there a more sacred state than pregnancy?
The surest remedy for the male disease of self-contempt is the love of a sensible woman
Just a few ideas I had to get out there, I just feel he is getting a hard time and some people will believe anything you say Redstar that it becomes neccessary to make posts like this.
I think Nietzsche appeals to some young "rebels" simply because of his "outrageousness" -- especially his scathing attacks on Christianity.
http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?s...32&hl=nietzsche (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=22832&hl=nietzsche)
Perhaps Redstar fails to realise that Nietzsche is first and foremost not a political philosopher which causes obvious differences between Marx from whom we all I am guessing have taken an interest and most likely accepted his theories most likely in relation to class antagonism being irreconciable. Well Nietzsche' concern is not with wage labour or anything of the sort, his interest is in cultural spirituality regardless of the state of affairs that a society finds itself in. In fact he called for 'As little state as possible' which I sure we can all agree sounds very unlike anything a fascist would dare utter.
Also Nietzsche marks a departure from the Romantic peroid and is essentially reacting against Victorian morals, keep this in mind, context is important and you know it.
You must realise that the history of philosophy has reached a point since just before Nietzsche where all the major theories have more or less been put forth, Spinoza, Hume or Kant all contributed in their own way but Nietzsche used a different method.
All have systematic grand systems but all have been shown to have holes, Nietzsche avoided this by short aphorisms and quick dips into thought. Now I know you will say it is because he has nothing to say but thats besides the point, a problem with Nietzsche is that he is often provoking the reader to think and his aphorism are easily taken out of context. Now I know you will presume me to be being uncritical but I have pointed out elsewhere that Nietzsche was not always anti-feminist or why he may have been so wary of women considering his life. No excuse perhaps but sometimes you make posts with the aim of making him seem reactionary which is untrue.
The most obvious example:
"When thou goest unto woman to teach, forget not thy whip".
When he says bring your whip he means that he believes women enjoy men dominating them.
He did not mean this in some evil wife beating, physically use a whip manner. It was his way of providing a psycholigical insight.
First of all, I am looking at it from a symbolic manner because that is generally how Nietzsche works. We arent talking about mathematics or manner of lateral thinking. His is an irationalist philosophy, it is at times incoherent and contains a vasy array of downright sexist aphorims.
Nietzsche however isn't a social commentator, he is trying to provoke at every turn reactions about every topic.
His philosophy is a critical analysis of culture.His demands of science, religion and morality ask for a completely new orientation of the modern conciousness.
Some more quotes of his on women:
The more womanly a woman is, the more she fights tooth and nail against rights in general. The natural order of things, the eternal war between the sexes, assigns her by far the foremost rank
Woman understands children better than man, but man is more childish thyan woman
Some I posted elsewhere:
Women have intelligence; men have character and passion
Stupidity in a woman is unfeminane
Is there a more sacred state than pregnancy?
The surest remedy for the male disease of self-contempt is the love of a sensible woman
Just a few ideas I had to get out there, I just feel he is getting a hard time and some people will believe anything you say Redstar that it becomes neccessary to make posts like this.