What are they hiding?!

[Subversive Pessimist]

I've have been studying 9/11 for almost 3 years now, and all I have to say is that the official story is bullshit, as it often is, in many, if not all cases. So many holes, so many lies. But now as I see this, I am REALLY beginning to wonder.

Bush opposes a 9/11 investigation, well fine, you've done some pretty mean shit Mr. President, and you should have stopped the attack, but then:

Tape of air controllers from 9/11 destroyed

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/172294_terror07.html

[NYC4Ever]

Ok, Oliver Stone, please elaborate on your finding of how it doesn make any sense?

[pyrrhassorrow]

This is what happened...put simply.

Gov't has evidence that there are going to be attacks on U$ by Bin Laden and his gang.

Gov't decides to ignore evidence. If they allow the attacks to happen then they will have an excuse to wage war on "terrorists"

9/11. Thousands die because the gov't refused to act on evidence.

Gov't wages "war on terrorism." Really just an excuse to get into the middle east for oil. Thousands more die on both sides. And here we are.

[Subversive Pessimist]

That basically sums up most of it.

[Capitalist Imperial]

You stupid, stupid idiots.

I suppose that the next thing you are going to tell me is that the moon landing was staged.

Don't blame Bush, blame Clinton for not addressing the 1st attack on the WTC in '93.

[pyrrhassorrow]

Why do right-wingers always resort to personal attacks and name calling?

What does the moon landing have to do with 9/11?

I'm not a conspiracy theorist. There is actual evidence (watch the news or read) that the gov't had prior knowledge of the attacks. I didn't say that I didn't hold Clinton partially responsible. He should have focused more on running the country and less on his personal scandals. But he was not in office on 9/11. Bush was.

[DaCuBaN]

*scans the above posts for mention of the word 'Bush'*

You said it CI, no one else ;)

so two successive governments failed... isn't that simply even more damning on the US?

I don't think anyone could realistically argue that if evidence was present pointing toward a terrorist attack and it was ignored that those people who did not respond are almost as responsible for the casualities as those who planned/executed the attack.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2004, 06:41 PM
*scans the above posts for mention of the word 'Bush'*

You said it CI, no one else ;)

so two successive governments failed... isn't that simply even more damning on the US?

I don't think anyone could realistically argue that if evidence was present pointing toward a terrorist attack and it was ignored that those people who did not respond are almost as responsible for the casualities as those who planned/executed the attack.
"Usama Bin Laden and Al queda have the will and potential to attack the US on US soil, and may try to in the near future"

is much different from

"on the morning of sept 11 2001, 20 terrorists will highjack planes from boston and washington and fly themm into the WTC, Pentagon, and capitol".

The bush administration did not simply stand by and watch it unravel with preconceived knowledge and understanding that it was going to happen. to claim they did is ludicrous.

[DaCuBaN]

My apologies for making it look like I was making this claim - I have no interest one way or the other, I am simply interested in opinion here.

The Patriot act was only brought in afterwards. If they were aware of these events unreavelling why did they not bring it in when it could have helped? After all that's apparently why it is there...

[Professor Moneybags]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2004, 06:39 PM
Why do right-wingers always resort to personal attacks and name calling?
Perhaps you ought to check out the "Dissect" topic to see who is resorting to name calling.

[DaCuBaN]

:rolleyes:

I didn't insult you personally did I? I thought I only aimed insult at the author of that source...

here (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=24726&st=0)

[pyrrhassorrow]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2004, 02:01 PM
The Patriot act was only brought in afterwards. If they were aware of these events unreavelling why did they not bring it in when it could have helped? After all that's apparently why it is there...
Because the Patriot Act is meant to go after those who are anti-war and anti-bush, not suspected Al Quada. It has nothing to do with freedom or the war on terror.

[NYC4Ever]

I cannot believe the rabbit hole conspiracies that tumble out of peoples mouths these days. Why does everything have to be a shady conspiracy? If anything I think a rogue nation from the middle east funded and helped them, but thats about as far as my rabbit hole goes.

[pyrrhassorrow]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2004, 02:49 PM
If anything I think a rogue nation from the middle east funded and helped them, but thats about as far as my rabbit hole goes.
I agree with you. A rogue nation from the middle east did help fund the attacks. A rogue nation who's main business partner is the Bush family. Who has corporate offices on U$ soil.

[DaCuBaN]

If anything I think a rogue nation from the middle east funded and helped them

Well, there's Israel...

I'm not a big one for conspiracy theories myself.

[Kurai Tsuki]

This didn't have to be posted in Opposing Ideologies, it would have done fine in Politics.

[pyrrhassorrow]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2004, 02:53 PM

If anything I think a rogue nation from the middle east funded and helped them

Well, there's Israel...

I'm not a big one for conspiracy theories myself.
I was speaking more of Saudi Arabia.

[NYC4Ever]

Let me ask you guys somethings. Lets say 9/11 never happened, and you still held all of these angry criticisms against American and even Israel. How far would your feelings towards America be? Enough to for you to wanna see a city fall? Just asking.

[pyrrhassorrow]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2004, 02:59 PM
Let me ask you guys somethings. Lets say 9/11 never happened, and you still held all of these angry criticisms against American and even Israel. How far would your feelings towards America be? Enough to for you to wanna see a city fall? Just asking.
My feelings are anti-U$ gov't. Pre-9/11, patriot act, war on terror, bush, I did not feel as strongly and these actions by the U$ have certainly made me more determined. The destruction of the world trade centres, while I understand why, was not justified as it was not a gov't building. The attack on the Pentagon was another issue. That is not a civilian building. It is a gov't office. The U$ has weapons of mass destruction, they consistently violate human rights, they do not hold fair democratic elections, they pose a threat to the Middle East and to Africa and to Latin America. If the war against Iraq can be justified on those same terms then why is the war on the U$ not? When you are at war you have to expect that anything to do with your gov't or your military is fair game.

This is slightly off topic though. The question is...did bush know what was being planned? Does bush know anything? He claims he wasn't told about the threats pre-9/11...he also wasn't told about the abuse of prisoners...who's running the country?

[NYC4Ever]

My feelings are anti-U$ gov't. Pre-9/11, patriot act, war on terror, bush, I did not feel as strongly and these actions by the U$ have certainly made me more determined. The destruction of the world trade centres, while I understand why, was not justified as it was not a gov't building. The attack on the Pentagon was another issue. That is not a civilian building. It is a gov't office. The U$ has weapons of mass destruction, they consistently violate human rights, they do not hold fair democratic elections, they pose a threat to the Middle East and to Africa and to Latin America. If the war against Iraq can be justified on those same terms then why is the war on the U$ not? When you are at war you have to expect that anything to do with your gov't or your military is fair game.

This is slightly off topic though. The question is...did bush know what was being planned? Does bush know anything? He claims he wasn't told about the threats pre-9/11...he also wasn't told about the abuse of prisoners...who's running the country?



Now put all of your claims into actions like they have. This is why I am glad that the Patriot Act is enforced.

[pyrrhassorrow]

why don't you look at why ppl feel that way?

and how would travel be for citizens of the u$ if the middle east, africa and l.a. instituted patriot acts of their own. americans would never be allowed anywhere in the world. the u$ gov't is a terrorist organization.

[DaCuBaN]

and how would travel be for citizens of the u$ if the middle east, africa and l.a. instituted patriot acts of their own. americans would never be allowed anywhere in the world. the u$ gov't is a terrorist organization

Are things not increasingly moving this way? I thought a lot of countries had proposed 'black-listing' american citizens re immigration

[Nas]

there are several consiparacy theories of 9/11
anyways to me America's future doesnt look good :unsure:

[mEds]

heh lol. capitalist imperialist. what a fucking vaginal fart.

[Subversive Pessimist]

Also, Bush lied when he said 'he didn't know' of the possibility that planes could be used as missiles. He didn't go to a meeting (G8 summit, I believe, correct me if I am wrong), because of the possibility that planes could be used as missiles.

Also, 7 of the 19 hijackers have been confirmed alive and well (false passports?).

+ What I don't get:
Why would moderate muslims, moderate muslims who drink, smoke, go to strip bars, play videogames, marries christian girls, never go to the mosque, sacrifice their life for Allah?


It's just a question. Think about it for a while.

[Komit]

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/archiveprior_knowledge.html

i think after you read this you will have a fairly clear image about what happened with 9/11
it's a bit long but worth reading