Che - A little overrated

[Subversive Pessimist]

Che was heroic and all that. No doubt.
Well, what I am trying to say, is, that this man has not done something that is really great. Although he was a revolutionary. Still, some people worship him.

I have no trouble that people admire Che, I do, too. I've read books about him, Guevara was a great man, no doubt, but I still believe that he is a little overrated.

Is it just me that feels the same way? :unsure:

[SittingBull47]

You didn't explain why he was overated. what could he have done differently in your mind to warrant the praise placed on him?

[Wiesty]

ok
people are alwayys saying this about che like why che? why not william wallace

there are different view points of the world. A million or so might love che guevara and say why are we all just praisiing him when others have done the same. When on the other hand People praising Lenin are saying why are we just worshiping him when tons of other people helped to start communism

No matter which hero u follow there will always be the peole looking for change

[Subversive Pessimist]

what could he have done differently in your mind to warrant the praise placed on him?

I believe he did everything he could. But he failed in Congo, and he failed in Bolivia. Military speaking, he wasn't anything special.

[pyrrhassorrow]

I agree with you. I am an admirer of Che and especially his writings. I do see him as a symbol of resistance but I think too often he has been deified. His message was great and he certainly lived a poetic life but he was just a man. I think Castro had a much greater impact on world politics then Che. And Castro was a more intelligent, balanced political leader.

[revolutionary thinker]

I think Che was bery brave and better in politics than Castro. I also think his guerilla tactics were great but he lacked the people to carry it out in the Congo and in Bolivia I blame him for lacking the passion he had for the revolution, it seemed he went to Bolivia and didn't certain things right. Its not all his fault just partly. But the thing that most nerves me about him is the way he went out. He shoulda gone out with his gun blazing not saying dont shoot

[SittingBull47]

?....there may be some debate over his last words, but for him to say "don't shoot" is out of the question. He was just a man, but he didn't cower before his captors.

[mEds]

there is no way castro was more intelligent.. he sided with the russians>chinese. very bad move.

[Subversive Pessimist]

there may be some debate over his last words, but for him to say "don't shoot" is out of the question.

So that, "shoot coward, you are only going to kill a man", is a bluff?

[Tchuncly]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2004, 12:28 PM
Che was heroic and all that. No doubt.
Well, what I am trying to say, is, that this man has not done something that is really great. Although he was a revolutionary. Still, some people worship him.

I have no trouble that people admire Che, I do, too. I've read books about him, Guevara was a great man, no doubt, but I still believe that he is a little overrated.

Is it just me that feels the same way? :unsure:

Well, what I am trying to say, is, that this man has not done something that is really great.

can you explain why?

[Subversive Pessimist]

I did. Read my second post in this thread.

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2004, 02:40 PM

what could he have done differently in your mind to warrant the praise placed on him?

I believe he did everything he could. But he failed in Congo, and he failed in Bolivia. Military speaking, he wasn't anything special.
It is a rather hard task to ferment a revolution in a country. I think the praise he gets is justified based on the one country where he was successful. In addition, his very thoughts are enough to justify the hero worship he receives, look at how many people he has inspired. Can you not tell that what he has said and what he has wrote are amongst the most inspirational and powerful things said in the 20th Century and in these centuries of imperialism they extremely pertinent and if we learn about him and have others do the same we will create more revolutionaries and anti-imperialists.

I think some people on this site do not recognise his importance enough and around the world there are not yet enough people who know who he was.

[Le Libérer]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2004, 12:38 AM
there is no way castro was more intelligent.. he sided with the russians>chinese. very bad move.
WHat choice did he have? Side with the US? Siding with Russia was a means of survivial and a slap in the face of imperialism.

[Wiesty]

When che said " dont shoot, i am che guevara and worth more to you alive then dead" He obiously had something up his sleeve, but his plan probably didnt work.
He wasn't willing to go down without a fight, But with 5 bullet holes in his leg and arm, the odds were against him.

So i believe that when he said what he did he was planning something, like they guirrela forces attacking his captures and freeing him, but it obiously didnt work

and i believe he said "Shoot Coward your only going to kill a man"
sounds more like che

[Knowledge 6 6 6]

He was a rebel with a message that we should all listen to, and give it its justice.

Was he special? well, its not like we havent seen folk like him before, but he was very articulate and intelligent...

I mean, how many times do we see a doctor of all ppl being such a rebel? you'd think a doctor would have no social conscience as they are financially set forever...it really does prove how much of his being he put into what he did. We all gotta respect that.

Over-rated? I dunno, I think alotta ppl follow him blindly...But I think he is someone we should look up to, he was a rebel with a cause and gave his life for it. Gotta respect that.

[Subversive Pessimist]

Very true. But a large amount of people only know of him because he became an idol, not because of his acheivments (sic?).

[Tchuncly]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2004, 02:40 PM

what could he have done differently in your mind to warrant the praise placed on him?

I believe he did everything he could. But he failed in Congo, and he failed in Bolivia. Military speaking, he wasn't anything special.
then you mean that he is over-rated because he failed in other countries?
what does someone need to do to be something special, military speaking, in your opinion? be imperialist? :unsure:

[Subversive Pessimist]

He got my respect 100 percent. That's not the point. The point is, why has he become an important person in history? Is it because he was a great man, was it because he was idolized by students in Europe, or was it maybe both?

[VincentValentine]

I dont worship che or anyone for that matter, but I do have alot of respect for him, its important to know the differance between respect and worship.

[Tchuncly]

He got my respect 100 percent. That's not the point. The point is, why has he become an important person in history?

well he is not that important for world history...

[mEds]

and neither will you you fucking tool.

[Essential Insignificance]

What are malevolence, whist intrepid, attempt on a message board entitled "Che-lives". There are many fanatical admires of Che, for reasons, obvious to the observer of Che’s revolutionary actions.

But these admires are becoming more then admires; they’re, as I said becoming fanatical in their obsession of Che…which is a little disturbing. But it’s up to the individual, I quess.

But what I find most interesting is that there are a few members on the board praising Che’s writings, I am apt to disagree here. As Che’s action spoke louder then his words ever did, he is remembered internationally not for his writings but instead for his actions.

[Tchuncly]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2004, 09:31 PM
and neither will you you fucking tool.
¬¬''''''
oh, yes, sorry, i forgot that Che is more famous than Jesus Christ, and, hm, yes he's the most famous man in the world, the kind of person that you are born knowing of his existence ¬¬'''

you may like him, I do, but he's not that widely known...if you can't face that, I'm sorry ¬¬'

[Salvador Allende]

Che was a great revolutionary who tried to get the world to break their chains, however, in a military stand-point his ideas about guerilla warfare are flawed. His ideas should be looked at and studied, but never followed directly. I believe if you need to have a doctrine directly for guerilla warfare you should check up on Mao's writing about guerilla warfare since it is still being used today to lead the people of Nepal to victory over the monarchy.

[emmissary]

Che a great revolutionary should be remembered for just that, a great revolutionary. I must disagree with some because I personaly feel he has had a huge impact on world history. He opened the eyes to the third world to many people like myself that were born in this capitalist society. Like many great men, he had his flaws, but his wisdom and actions will ring in our ears throughout time.

[Tchuncly]

he has his importance, of course he does, but people asked things like I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY HE IS SO IMPORTANT FOR HISTORY, and i just said that he isn't THAT important...i mean, you heard about che before you heard about hitler?
he is important (maybe the word is not important, but widely known, famous, etc)...so, there are many people in history more famous than Che...

what I meant by IMPORTANCE was IMPORTANCE FOR HISTORIANS, not for me or everybody in this forum...of course for us Che was more important than Hitler, but for historians Hitler was by far more important...in a few words, Hitler is more famous, every idiot know what hitler did, but do they know what Che did?

hope I were clearer now...
and sorry for misunderstandings...

[Essential Insignificance]

i forgot that Che is more famous than Jesus Christ

Are you serious (!)

[cyd]

i think that it is so sad that he has become a cultural icon, people have seemed to have forgoten his ideals, i mean look at the picture attatchment

[Tchuncly]

Originally posted by Essential [email protected] 14 2004, 08:48 AM

i forgot that Che is more famous than Jesus Christ

Are you serious (!)
no it was a sarcasm :P


i think that it is so sad that he has become a cultural icon, people have seemed to have forgoten his ideals, i mean look at the picture attatchment

sure, I'd say he's become a POP icon...many people wear his shirts because it's fashion rather than admiring him and his ideologies... :angry:

[Left_Winged_Brownie]

My interest in Che isnt fanatical or anything like that but starting off as mere curiousity and facination. The man was most definately like no other with his intense views and fight or die attitude. The fact that he wasnt just all talk ,working in the fields with "his people" just about 7 days a week when he wasnt in battle is more than most people would do. This shows that his attitude wasnt just fighting the fight on the battle field that did indeed kill but rather fighting the fight that would hopefully allow Cuba to one day prosper without the capitalistic nations overrunning its shores.

Fact of the matter is Che was and to this day is a man who has earned the respect of many. No matter how you view his actions in the congo and bolivia.. he fought and eventually died for something he believed in strongly.

Now with that said.. For some odd reason, Che has become less of a historical and revolutionary figure and more of a fashion statement. I mean thats cool to respesent but its kinda odd when u see lil 12 year old girls with the word "Che" in red covering their kiddie boobs Or Che's face on zippo lighters. Its kinda like over marketing or overexposure. Think Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen for the political and revolutionary world. When young fans of rappers Like Jay Z see him wearing a shirt with Che's face.. its kinda like " Oh i gotta have that" not even knowing the man on the tee shirt. Its sad actually because this man with who held integrity until the day he died will be synonimous with rap and the fashion world rather than the revolution, fighting for oppressed people and freedom from the capitalist animals of the world.

You would figure if Jay -Z knows so much about Che that he would inspire his young fans to go out and find out more about this mythical man but sadly, he doesnt. He just compares himself to Che ... which is kinda funny becuase he could never live up to the stature that Che held(and to the people who truly know about him, continues to hold).

[fernando]

Well the impact Che had...he made the Yankees shit their pants!!!

I mean they tried really hard to have him killed, and in the end they did it, but it just shows they were scared shit of him, Che could inspire people into rebelling against these imperialist occupators.

I dont worship Guevara or anything, I try to learn from him and be inspired!

PATRIA O MUERTE!!!

[che's long lost daughter]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2004, 05:34 PM
Very true. But a large amount of people only know of him because he became an idol, not because of his acheivments (sic?).
Well Frederic, that is sadly true. But if he didn't become an "idol", many people wouldn't have known him. And if people never knew of Che, very few would have continued what he fought for.

[Hasta Siempre Comandante]

I don't thinnk it's fair to say that Che is overrated! He was an instrumental part of the Cuban Revolution and in Cuba's transition to communism. His time in the congo and in Bolivia didn't go very well BUT the example he set is what makes him an incredible man. Che could have stayed with Castro, in Cuba, for the rest of his life, but instead he chose to continue the revolution and expand it. So don't say he's overrated just because people who know nothing about him are wearing his t-shirts. He said it himslef, "i'm just a man" so realize what this man sacrificed and did, not only for his people but as an example for everyone. Don't comapre him to anyone else, everyone has their role in history.. someone on this board was talking about how historically Hitler is more "important." First of all, it's up to the individual to decide for himself/herself who's "important." Just go to Cuba and ask around who's more important- go to Cuba and ask ppl if Che is overrated and then see the response you'll get.

HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!

[Nickelby]

Che is dead, so as much as he might want to HE can't stop people blindly worshiping him because of his image. Thats OUR job, to teach people about what he really stands for and what he fought against.

[Hiero]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 09:09 AM
i think that it is so sad that he has become a cultural icon, people have seemed to have forgoten his ideals, i mean look at the picture attatchment
That picture is actually a counter to che idolizing which is done by the church. I am assuming by the written info.

[Biggoggs]

I think Che was a charismatic sort of guy. I do think he's been `urbanised', and used as a symbol of resistance for just about everything. Females seem to be attracted to him.

I tried looking for that sort of beret (pure curiosity) and couldn't find a thing, so I gotta hand that to him :)


Cheers

[Saint-Just]

I don't think there is any problem with fanaticism. I think that all people on this forum look at Che in a reasonable manner, I do not see anything akin to religious fanaticism. Obviously there is a certain amount of enthusiasm for him since we like him, but I don't think anyone has taken it to excessive levels.

[fernando]

*dresses up like Che, talks like Che, tries to look like Che, acts like Che, tries to get astma attacks too, takes a lot of astma medication in hope that it will have the same effect, inhales sigars*

No we're not obsessed :lol: