URGENT ....... WAR ON THE PALESTINIAN CIVILIANS !! - IT JUST

[Derar]

By Matt Spetalnick

BETHLEHEM, West Bank (Reuters) - Israeli troops swept through Palestinian-ruled Bethlehem Friday as the United States prepared to follow a long trail of bloodshed with a new truce mission by its Middle East envoy.

At least 34 Palestinians, including a general and a nine-year-old boy, had been killed by Israeli forces since late Thursday, Palestinian officials said -- some of the bloodiest few hours in 17 months of revolt against Israeli occupation.
The Palestinian death toll now stands at over 1,000 since the uprising began in September 2000 while more 300 Israelis have also died, according to a tally compiled by Reuters.

Following a strategy charted by Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to hit the Palestinians hard until they sue for peace, the Israeli army sent troops and tanks backed by helicopters into Bethlehem, the traditional birthplace of Jesus.

Six Palestinians, including a hospital director, were killed and scores wounded in heavy fighting. Witnesses said the army had not entered the center of Bethlehem around the Church of the Nativity on the spot where Christians believe Jesus was born.

Despite Sharon's military offensive, an Israeli opinion poll in the Yedioth Ahronoth newspaper Friday showed that 53 percent of Israelis had no confidence in him, echoing findings in a survey in the Maariv daily a week ago.

COMMANDER KILLED

Fighting has reached a new level of ferocity this week, pushing peacemaking to the sidelines and alarming world leaders.
In the southern Gaza Strip , Israeli forces on a search for militants and munitions in the village of Khuza'a killed 17 Palestinians, including Major-General Ahmed Mefrej, the chief of the Palestinian National Security Forces in the area.

Mefrej was the most senior Palestinian commander killed since the uprising against Israeli occupation began in September 2000. Colleagues said he was shot helping to defend the village.

In the Tulkarm refugee camp in the West Bank, Israeli forces killed five Palestinians, including the nine-year-old boy. A Palestinian stone-thrower was killed in the town of Jenin.

Four other Palestinians were killed when Israeli gunboats attacked a Palestinian police station in northern Gaza.

People in Huwara, near Nablus, said armed Jewish settlers went on a rampage in their village, injuring four Palestinians and damaging the mosque and a clinic. Israel Radio said police had detained some settlers and confiscated their weapons. Police said the settlers were angry at a Palestinian attack.

BUSH CALL

Bush urged Palestinian President Yasser Arafat to help end the violence: ``I...call upon Chairman Arafat to make maximum effort to end terrorism against Israel, which undermines the prospects for peace,'' he said. !!!!!!!!

------------------------------------------------

We should make protests in the whole world .... this is the only way they'll listen .......... we must stop these brutal massacres ......... we must do all we can .

[STALINSOLDIERS]

you see what did i told you the isreal government is a pig and the people that supports his ideas to overtake palestein....yeah we shall protest bush is the terrorist for giving isreal the equipments.....the isrealies are the terrorist they dont want peace peace isnt going killing more and more people....usa dont care theyll only care if palestein does force.............we shall protest if it doesnt work then we usa force a break out.....

[guerrillaradio]

It's obviously a tragedy and I feel total and utter despair everytime I hear about it. The question is: what is to be done??

[Derar]

i was watching Al-jazeera channel .......

Israel army is putting the Tulkarm refugee camp undersiege ....... firing on anything that moves ..
And it doesnt let ambulance cars to get in the camp , i just saw pictures ... ppl r wounder in the streets , under treed , behind bushes ........ and no one can go help them coz anything that moves will be shot .
Also israeli army shot ambulance cars ..... and wounded lots of medics . they also showed us how an israeli tank hit 2 ambulance cars and almost squashed them .
A brutal massacre is coming up in the tulkarm refugee camp .

We can let our voices be heard .... protest , This way we'll be part of the great intifada ...... the fight for the freedom of the palestinian people.

[Reuben]

Yeah it is disgusting. Who does Sharon think he is fooling when this racist murderer pretends to have the moral authority to tell Arafat what to do. As I have said before, if young people want to support palestinian rights they should join Youth Action For Palestine. Go to www.geocities.com/youthactionforpalestine


Not related, but I don't no why stalin soldiers is saying what didd i tell you. The general concensus on this board was pro-palestinian long before he came. Furthermore, we were not outraged by his oppsition to the Israeli government.

Victory to the Intifada,

Reuben

[BOZG]

As much as I want to see Sharon and the Zionists fall, I don't think that Arafat will be that great a leader.

I think the Palestinians need a new uncorrupt leader but if they don't do that, I would rather see Arafat in power than Sharon.


LONG LIVE THE INTIFADA

[Anonymous]

That fat fuck sharon, what a dick, who the fuck does he think he is.
lets batter him

[HardcoreCommie]

Why are muslims infinately indignant over the treatement of fellow muslims by isrealis, but not over the treatement of fellow muslims by hindu mobs.


March 6, 2002

The Core of Muslim Rage
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN

he latest death toll in the Indian violence between Hindus and Muslims is 544 people, many of them Muslims. Why is it that when Hindus kill hundreds of Muslims it elicits an emotionally muted headline in the Arab media, but when Israel kills a dozen Muslims, in a war in which Muslims are also killing Jews, it inflames the entire Muslim world?

I raise this point not to make some idiot press critique or engage in cheap Arab-bashing. This is a serious issue. In recent weeks, whenever Arab Muslims told me of their pain at seeing Palestinians brutalized by Israelis on their TV screens every night, I asked back: Why are you so pained about Israelis brutalizing Palestinians, but don't say a word about the brutality with which Saddam Hussein has snuffed out two generations of Iraqis using murder, fear and poison gas? I got no good answers.

Because the real answer is rooted in something very deep. It has to do with the contrast between Islam's self-perception as the most ideal and complete expression of the three great monotheistic religions — Judaism, Christianity and Islam — and the conditions of poverty, repression and underdevelopment in which most Muslims live today.

As a U.S. diplomat in the Middle East said to me, Israel — not Iraq, not India — is "a constant reminder to Muslims of their own powerlessness." How could a tiny Jewish state amass so much military and economic power if the Islamic way of life — not Christianity or Judaism — is God's most ideal religious path?

When Hindus kill Muslims it's not a story, because there are a billion Hindus and they aren't part of the Muslim narrative. When Saddam murders his own people it's not a story, because it's in the Arab-Muslim family. But when a small band of Israeli Jews kills Muslims it sparks rage — a rage that must come from Muslims having to confront the gap between their self-perception as Muslims and the reality of the Muslim world.

I have long believed that it is this poverty of dignity, not a poverty of money, that is behind a lot of Muslim rage today and the reason this rage is sharpest among educated, but frustrated, Muslim youth. It is they who perpetrated 9/11 and who slit the throat of the Wall Street Journal reporter Danny Pearl — after reportedly forcing him to declare on film, "I am a Jew and my mother is a Jew."

This is not to say that U.S. policy is blameless. We do bad things sometimes. But why is it that only Muslims react to our bad policies with suicidal terrorism, not Mexicans or Chinese? Is it because Arab-Muslim conspiracy theories state that Jews could not be so strong on their own — therefore the only reason Israel could be strong, and Muslims weak, is because the U.S. created and supports Israel?

The Muslim world needs to take an honest look at this rage. Look what it has done to Palestinian society — where the flower of Palestinian youth now celebrate suicide against Jews as a source of dignity. That is so bad. Yes, there is an Israeli occupation, and that occupation has been hugely distorting of Palestinian life. But the fact is this: If Palestinians had said, "We are going to oppose the Israeli occupation, with nonviolent resistance, as if we had no other options, and we are going to build a Palestinian society, schools and economy, as if we had no occupation" — they would have had a quality state a long time ago. Instead they have let the occupation define their whole movement and become Yasir Arafat's excuse for not building jobs and democracy.

Only Muslims can heal their own rage. But the West, and particularly the Jewish world, should help. Because this rage poses an existential threat to Israel. Three broad trends are now converging: (1) The worst killing ever between Israelis and Palestinians; (2) a baby boom in the Arab-Muslim world, where about half the population is under 20; (3) an explosion of Arab satellite TV and Internet, which are taking the horrific images from the intifada and beaming them directly to the new Arab- Muslim generation. If 100 million Arab-Muslims are brought up with these images, Israel won't survive.

Some of this hatred will remain no matter what Israel does. But to think that Israel's exiting the occupied territories — and abandoning its insane settlement land grab there — wouldn't reduce this problem is absurd.

Israel cannot do it alone. But it has to do all it can to get this show off the air. It would take away an important card from the worst Muslim anti- Semites and it would help strengthen those Muslims, and there are many of them, who know that the suicidal rage of their fanatics is dragging down their whole civilization.

[Derar]

U fucking Racist shit ....... calling all muslims anti-semites ?!!

Thats the most stupid racist article ive read in a long time ..... and ofcourse i wont wonder where it came from , also a stupid racist person .

i dont know how ppl have the nerve to justify the killings of innocent palestinians , and just bring up some other stupid subject to hide the brutality of the israeli army .

thats exactly what zionists around the world always do . and then accuse the muslims that they r racists , anti-semites and terrorists .

Harcorcommie ........ your a racist capitalist pig ....

[MJM]

Big difference here- Israel is acting in imperialistic ways.
The muslims and hindus are fight within a country, between citizens, not between armies.
Also the US is involving itself in the Israeli Palestine war, you don't see china help one side in india do you?
Propaganda I'm afraid, totally unsolicited propaganda.

[Young Turk]

Quote: from HardcoreCommie on 4:37 pm on Mar. 8, 2002
an explosion of Arab satellite TV and Internet, which are taking the horrific images from the intifada and beaming them directly to the new Arab- Muslim generation. If 100 million Arab-Muslims are brought up with these images, Israel won't survive.



"their civilization"?

This article is attempting to skirt around it's anti-muslim views with a gracefully worded pile of bullshit. If you agree with it, you are racist, like derar said, it's simple as that. yeah, if Israel doesn't survive after this...this war where 4 of 5 casualties are Palestinian, then who's really at fault?! If Israel doesn't survive, it's their leader's own god damn fault from here on out. They literally overstepped the boundarys 100 too many times and even the zionistic sharon is starting to wet his pants about this fuck-up seeing as though the weak-minded pro-israel-USA is starting to condemn the actions he's taking. Palestinians target civilians? Yeah, well it's a fact that a shitload more civilians have died in refugee camps and if those people were all "collateral damage" it doesn't seem like Israel is trying to aim very well.

and as far as making up that muslims don't mind that their fellow followers are being murdered...where the fuck does he get off assuming that? there are some many being killed everywhere, one has to pick their battles. That's like saying that I don't care about dying somalians just because it isn't on the front page of the post.

uhg, that article is just too much. I am sure most people here can see through that psuedo-analytical wordplay in a second.

[Michael De Panama]

Fuck Israel! Fuck Palestine! Fuck that stupid hypocritical war. The ownership of land is not something that ANYONE should kill for. No religion is worth fighting a fucking war over. And as far as I'm concerned, neither Judaism nor Islam advocates killing.
No God would want his people to destroy one another for the ownership of a piece of land he created, regardless of who he promised it to.

My solution: Let's just turn Jerusalem into a giant lake. Let's flood the place. People might drown, but in the long run it would save millions of lives who will eventually die in the stupid holy war. We could call it "Lake who gives a damn?".

Ownership is only an illusion. Nobody really "owns" anything in life except their own bodies. They are attatched to things, but that is not ownership. So in reality, both sides own Jerusalem.

[Reuben]

It is easy to say that people shouldn't kill for ownership of the. But if your family had been forced the land they farme so that they, if occupation that you were expelled from the village you had been expelled for from thee house which you still owned the rights to, if the occupying force was ruling you without you being allowed to vote and demolishing your house simply because you are a palestinian then I could veryu much understand wanting to `'kill for land.'

this is what the palestinians have to put up with as a resu lt of the occupation.

Victory to the Intifada,

Reuben

[guerrillaradio]

I read the newspaper today and I have rarely ever felt such despair. How can Israel justify this??

PHIL REEVES, THE INDEPENDENT, 9 MARCH

"Dr Ahmed Soubeih knew that setting foot into the silent, sun-lit street outside his hospital yesterday was highly dangerous. The Israeli army had already slaughtered more than 30 Palestinians across the occupied territories in the past 12 hours, making it the bloodiest day of the intifada.

There were snipers with high-powered rifles hidden in a building not far from his front door, part of an Israeli force that swept into Bethlehem and its surrounding Arab villages before dawn. His neighbourhood was under an Israeli-imposed curfew, as was much of the urban sprawl around Bethlehem, reoccupied by Israel again even though the land was placed under Palestinian rule by the Oslo peace accords.

A 1,000lb bomb dropped by an F-16 jet had flattened a local government office during a terrifying night of attacks. Helicopters had been spraying streets with fire from their heavy-calibre machine guns, picking off several of the naive and ragged youths unlucky enough to be in Yasser Arafat's farcical national security forces. An Israeli spy drone circled overhead.

Tanks were near by, and had been shunting Palestinian Red Crescent ambulances off the streets, brazenly contemptuous of the protection afforded to rescue workers under the Geneva Conventions. And * with Israeli troops inside or stationed around two nearby refugee camps, Aida and Deheisheh * it was clear that fighting could explode at any second.

So Dr Soubeih took particular care before setting off in his BMW to drive through the empty streets of Bethlehem's suburbs to a neighbouring Palestinian hospital to collect food and medicine for his patients. 'He called the Israeli army and asked them if he could go,' said his nephew, Ra'ed Isbaih. 'They took details of his car, told him to wear a white shirt and no jacket, and to drive slowly.'

Dr Soubeih set off at around noon. According to Mr Isbaih, a sniper fired in his direction. So he called the Israeli military again and was reassured that this time it would be safe to drive. A few minutes later, a volley of bullets from a heavy machine-gun mounted on an Israeli Merkava tank removed his face. In one brutal moment, his six children lost a father; his patients lost a doctor, who by local repute, was caring and compassionate; and the Palestinians lost another medical worker, the fourth to be killed by the Israelis since Monday."

Of course, it would help if Arafat ordered an end to the suicide bombings. Then Sharon wouldn't have a foot to stand on...

[Reuben]

To get all the info on attacks on palestinian red crescent (chapter of recd cross) ambulances go to http://www.palestinercs.org/EMS_Under_Fire.htm

[fidelito]

Hardcore Commie....

You're really an ass.

You accept the fact that the Israeli occupation of Palestinian land is unlawful, yet you make it sound as if the Palestinian people are wrong?!!!!

I don't know what news you look at, but I hear the outrage when Hindus kill Muslims, (AND VICE VERSA) in India. And even if I didn't, what the hell does that have to do with the situation in Palestine?!!!!

You say that Muslims are outraged over the Israeli occupation in Palestine since it reflects their loss of dignity !

They are outraged because the Israeli people took their land with the support of one of the then two superpowers of the world....the USA and its puppet, the UN.

People continue to criticize Islam based on the actions of Saddam Hussein. Did you ever consider that the actions of Saddam were UnIslamic?!!! When the Roman Catholics and the Protestants in Ireland bomb each other, you pigs don't associate their actions with their religions - even though that's what the fighting is about.

But in the ever present attack on Islam, you eek out whatever propoganda you can.

When Saddam invaded Kuwait, how long did the U.$. take to respond.... not very long huh? When Israel invaded Palestine how did they react.....they immediately SUPPORTED the action and still do up to this day by pumping billions of $ into there economy......and you claim they have made these great strides in self development.

This is the American way of hypocrisy that we have come to hate..... and that we will fight against ....and that we will destroy.

The next time you write on this topic, sit and ponder....if a group of people invaded and took your home would you rebel against them......and if so would it be based on the fact that they are better off than you or that they are a bunch of bullies?!!!

Do not determine injustice based on who's rich or poor. That's a typical American paradigm.....in fact you sound more like a CIA Agent than a hardcore commie!!!

Look at what is right and what is wrong and then judge.

Che said -

"if you tremble with indignation at every injustice
then you are a comrade of mine."

And it is this very injustice and those who support it , we will wage war against and though casualities may be high on both sides, the revolution will prevail!!!


" We will be heroes or we will be martyrs"

" HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE"

[BOZG]

Quote: from fidelito on 6:56 am on Mar. 10, 2002
And it is this very injustice and those who support it , we will wage war against and though casualities may be high on both sides, the revolution will prevail!!!


NO JUSTICE NO PEACE

[Reuben]

No justice no peace.

[revolutionary]

The thing that gets on my tits is the media coverage. Here in Britain it is pure propaganda, i mean ppl r blind to the fact that ISRAEL IS OCCUPYING ANOTHER COUNTRY AND BEING SUPPORTED BY THE U$A, its the finest, best example of imperialistic capitalism being injustice, and no one says anything.

AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH WAKE UP FUCK

[guerrillaradio]

Revolutionary - read The Independent. They're refreshingly anti-Israel to the point that one of their columnists (Robert Fisk) has been accused of anti-semitism by Zionists.

[Reuben]

Yeah fisk is very good on Israel.

It really pisses me off when zionists call pro-palestinians anti-semites. Apart from enything, the real anti-SEMITES are very happy for anti-zionism to be equated with anti-semitism as it gives more legitimacy to their antisemitism.

However there was a an issue of the independent where people did Understandably and legitimately say that it had gone over into anti-semitism. The cover had a picture of a star of david (symbol of jews) digging into the union jack and the words "A kosher Conspiracy/". Although I am sure they were not intentionally anti-semitic, the images and words implied very much the historical lie of jewish conspiracy/jews subjugating nation states.

The result was there was a big furore in the Jewish community. Luckiily however, most of the time when the zionists clAim anti-semitism, there is none.

[guerrilla radio]

I think you're referring to The Economist, not The Independent. The Independent covered the story of The Economist's front cover, and may have printed the cover themselves, but were not the perpetrators (sp??).

[BOZG]

THE ISRAELI ARMY DOESN'T TARGET CIVILIANS

What a load of shit. I'm sure they don't use their tanks to shell and machine gun down children that protect themselves with rocks.
What about all the refugee camps that the Israelis have shelled and the towns and villages.

And as for being scared 'to take your children for a pizza', why do you think that the Palestinians do this. It is not for the fun of it. How do you think the Palestinains feel when they don't want to let their children out to play because some gun happy/mortor happy racist zionist bastard is going to put a bullet through their head.

[BOZG]

This is a quote from Brigadier General Israel Ziv, Israeli commander in the Gaza after the murder of 5 teens in the religious/military school on Friday, "It was simply horrible. It shows who we're dealing with - people without morals, a cruel enemy"

Fair enough, it was a brutal and ugly thing that happened but even mixing a school with religion and militancy shows Sharon's attempts at peace. I'm sure the Zionist's have morals when they shoot little children and women from their tanks and when they bomb homes and towns.

Sharon won't go back to the negotiation table unless there is a 7 day cease fire ON THE PALESTINIAN SIDE but he continues to wage war. If you want a cease fire then start one yourself. And how can you expect the Palestinians to just sit back and let you bomb their homes and murder their families and friends?

LIBERATION FOR PALESTINIAN, DESTROY THE ZIONISTS

[Reuben]

Firstly I would like to condemn your racist statement that "The Palestinians" are full of shit. If someone said that jews are sull of shit I would be offended. We have palestinians on this board so please do not assert that they are full of shit purely on the basis of there ethnicity.

O.K. I will let you know the truth about "Baraks Generous Offer"

It is often said that he was offering 100 percent or that he was offering everything. This is not the case. What happened was that at Oslo, the Palestinians compromised hugely by conceding their claim to 78 per cent of what was the British mandate in Palestine. They now asked of just 22 per cent of Palestine.

What was being discussed at camp David was how much of the twenty two per cent the palestinians were allowed to have. In other words this historical palestinian compromise of 78% of pre-war palestine was not enough for "Generous Barak"However as to aid Israeli propaganda this 22 per cent suddenly became 100 per cent, in other when they say Barak offered 95 percent this sttistic ignores 4/5ths of palestine.

ANyway at Camp David, Barak attached the following conditions to the Palestinians controlling the 22 per cent of the land.

1) 69 settlement blocks comprising 10 per cent of the state, and causing diruption to palestinian life.

2) 10 per cent of the palestinian land would be under indefinite "temporary" israeli control. Arafat would have no control over how indefinite this was.

So what aare we left with. 22 per cent of palestine. of which Israel stil controls 20 one fifth. Israel controls all border crossings.

Israeli territory and road blocks still cut into palestinian territoy.


Does not sound very much like a generous offer or very much like a state.


Reuben

[kloes]

ITS FUNNY WHEN EVERYBODY CONSIDERS THE PALESTINIAN ATTACKS TERRORISTS AND THE ISRAELY ATTACKS MILITARY DEFENSE... SORRY BUT TO ME BOTH ARE THE SAME THIS IS A WAR , THE DIFFERENCE IS THA ISRAEL HAS THE ENOUGH MONEY TO BUY ALL THOSE TANKS WHILE THE PALESTINIANS ONLY HAVE A FEW BOMS AND A BUNCH OFF STONES ON THE FLOOR... AND WHO INVADED THE PALESTINIAN LANDS ??' WHO??? TEL ME PLEASE...IT WASENT LONG AGO...... COME ON....
NOOOO IT AINT INTERESTING HUH?? I HOPE ONE OF THOSE DESPERATE CRAZY KAMIKAZES BLOW UP SHARON AND BUSH A ND ALL OFF THIS FUCKEN GLOBAL FACIST AND ONEMINDED FUCKERS.. AND I HOPE ONE OFF THOSE NUCLEAR BOOMS BLOW IN THEIR FACE

[komsomol]

I think the situation is almost unsalvable. THE ONLY WAY IT IS GOING TO STOP IS IF ISREAL GETS OUT OF GAZA. There will always be terrorists acting against Isreal so long as there are any Palestinians left, there are some for every generation. Whats the difference between Shiron and Arafaat, Shiron causes the trouble, Arafaat is asked to clear it up. He can not, like no one can control the actions of all the people. Shirons actions just make it harder.

[guerrillaradio]

Quote: from Mattan Lass on 4:06 pm on Mar. 11, 2002
The israeli army never targets civilians. yeah, innocent people die, but people die in war. and you know what?


I already copied this on an earlier page but obviously Mattan needs to read it again:

PHIL REEVES, THE INDEPENDENT, 9 MARCH

"Dr Ahmed Soubeih knew that setting foot into the silent, sun-lit street outside his hospital yesterday was highly dangerous. The Israeli army had already slaughtered more than 30 Palestinians across the occupied territories in the past 12 hours, making it the bloodiest day of the intifada.

There were snipers with high-powered rifles hidden in a building not far from his front door, part of an Israeli force that swept into Bethlehem and its surrounding Arab villages before dawn. His neighbourhood was under an Israeli-imposed curfew, as was much of the urban sprawl around Bethlehem, reoccupied by Israel again even though the land was placed under Palestinian rule by the Oslo peace accords.

A 1,000lb bomb dropped by an F-16 jet had flattened a local government office during a terrifying night of attacks. Helicopters had been spraying streets with fire from their heavy-calibre machine guns, picking off several of the naive and ragged youths unlucky enough to be in Yasser Arafat's farcical national security forces. An Israeli spy drone circled overhead.

Tanks were near by, and had been shunting Palestinian Red Crescent ambulances off the streets, brazenly contemptuous of the protection afforded to rescue workers under the Geneva Conventions. And * with Israeli troops inside or stationed around two nearby refugee camps, Aida and Deheisheh * it was clear that fighting could explode at any second.

So Dr Soubeih took particular care before setting off in his BMW to drive through the empty streets of Bethlehem's suburbs to a neighbouring Palestinian hospital to collect food and medicine for his patients. 'He called the Israeli army and asked them if he could go,' said his nephew, Ra'ed Isbaih. 'They took details of his car, told him to wear a white shirt and no jacket, and to drive slowly.'

Dr Soubeih set off at around noon. According to Mr Isbaih, a sniper fired in his direction. So he called the Israeli military again and was reassured that this time it would be safe to drive. A few minutes later, a volley of bullets from a heavy machine-gun mounted on an Israeli Merkava tank removed his face. In one brutal moment, his six children lost a father; his patients lost a doctor, who by local repute, was caring and compassionate; and the Palestinians lost another medical worker, the fourth to be killed by the Israelis since Monday."

[kloes]

el pueblo se levanta...theres no politic that can handle the power off the pueblo,,,compañero......look argentina..and many more that have to stan up and fight against the crazy capitalism and injustice in this oneman ruled world

[Derar]

After Reading Mattan Lass's Racist comments ......

i have no more comments to add ...... it's all just so clear !!

but i'll let u informed of the latest develoments there .....

and by the way , so far the palestinian Death toll have reached more than 90 Palestinians killed ........... And more than 800 arrested males between 15-45 .... just saw that on al-jazeera tv.
The israeli army randomly arrested any palestinian in sight , blindfolded them ...... and took them to an unknown place ....
u can see some pictures here ......

http://www.aljazeera.net/news/arabic/2002/3/3-11-6.htm

[BOZG]

Real eyes Realize Real lies


Did you hear that somewhere or did you make it up cause it rocks?

[Derar]

Machine Head - Real eyes Realize Real lies ......... from the album Burn my eyes .

[Derar]

Israeli Troops Kill 18 Palestinians in Raids
Mon Mar 11, 8:42 PM ET
By Nidal al-Mughrabi

GAZA (Reuters) - Israel stormed a refugee camp and pounded security targets in the Gaza Strip on Monday in fighting that killed 18 Palestinians and set back peace hopes raised by the ending of Yasser Arafat 's confinement in the West Bank.

In a heavy military offensive on the eve of a truce mission by U.S. envoy Anthony Zinni, tanks also rumbled into the city of Ramallah, where the Palestinian leader has been cooped up since December.

Shooting erupted as the troops entered the edges of the al-Ama'ari refugee camp in Ramallah. There was no word of casualties, although heavy machinegun fire narrowly missed journalists filming from the top of a hotel.

Tanks and troops backed by helicopter gunships battled into Jabalya refugee camp near Gaza City late on Monday, sparking gunbattles that left hospitals barely able to cope.

People ran screaming for cover down the camp's many alleys and ambulance sirens wailed as the tanks surged forward in what Israeli military sources called a raid on militants who have made and fired mortar bombs and rockets at Israel.

Hospital sources said 17 people were killed and 50 injured in the densely populated camp of about 90,000 people before the tanks withdrew about four hours later.

In the central Gaza Strip, the Israeli navy struck a Palestinian naval headquarters and other security targets near Deir al-Balah town. Palestinian security sources said one man died and six others were hurt by rockets fired by gunboats.

RAIDS ON REFUGEE CAMPS

Israeli forces have repeatedly raided refugee camps in the West Bank and Gaza for two weeks in what they say are sweeps for militants and arms in "bastions of terror."

They have made widescale arrests, including detaining several hundred men in the Dheisheh camp in Bethlehem on Monday.

But the offensive has failed to quell a more than 17-month-old Palestinian uprising against Israeli occupation, and Palestinian attacks have continued. In one, a suicide bomber killed 11 Israelis in a Jerusalem cafe on Saturday.

Hopes that violence would give way to talks had been raised by a series of gestures by Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon after the United States expressed its displeasure with his vows to beat the Palestinians until they sue for peace.

Sharon lifted a demand for seven days of calm before entering into cease-fire talks, allowed talks with the Palestinians on security matters on Monday, and said Arafat was now able to move freely in the West Bank and Gaza.

But tanks and troops later entered Ramallah and shooting erupted near a hotel, a long way from Arafat's headquarters. Israeli armor also entered al-Am'ari refugee camp within Ramallah after a helicopter gunship fired at targets there.

Witnesses at the City Inn Palace Hotel near al-Am'ari said Israeli gunfire barely missed a large group of journalists standing on the roof. Five bullets slammed into a camera used by U.S. television network ABC.

Palestinian Information Minister Yasser Abed Rabbo said Sharon's son, Omri, had informed the Palestinians that Israel would reoccupy Ramallah but not attack Arafat's office.

"This is a major offensive aimed at reoccupying the West Bank and Gaza Strip," Abed Rabbo said. "Sending Zinni to the region was a maneuver because we believe the United States was informed of Sharon's major offensive and intentions."

Israeli officials did not comment on Abed Rabbo's remarks.

[Derar]

Huh ?? ..... who wants who dead ??

Cant u see the links i posted from the recent news or maybe u cant see becoz ur eye is on ur ass !! if so then i can understand ........ otherwise u r a fool.

the palestinians r well funded ?! hahahaha , thats the funniest joke ive heard in a long time ..... this dude is really funny . How about the millions and millions of dollars from the US government to israel , other than the tanks , planes , missiles ......

left wing my ass !

[Omar Talib]

Quote: from Mattan Lass on 2:45 pm on Mar. 12, 2002
they are well funded and get all their weapons from Iran, as the recent KARIN - A ship affair proved.


The Palestinian people are well-funded? Last I checked brothers were still blowing themselves up to kill the enemy. Why blow themselves up? Shit, if I was well-funded I would use a tank. But if I wasn't, then it's understandable that I do whatever was within my power to kill my enemy.

The arms from Iran? Every people have a right to arm themselves. It is a God-given right, and God has also made it our duty to fight the enemy when he takes our homes. According to the UN, that same organization that gave the mandate for your racist country to exist in the first place, has said that every people have a right to arm themselves. And then Israelis seize a ship with arms meant for the Palestinian people, and you have a problem with it? Fifty tons of weapons. What about the thousands of tons of weapons you get every year from the US? Fifty tons come along, and you start *****ing? I

It's only so long before good weapons reach the Palestinian people. Maybe it'll be through secret shipments, or maybe a neighboring Arab government will open its border. It only a matter of time though.

[PunkRawker677]

Mattan, your post was beyond absurd, it was part humorous. for quite a few reasons.. i will point them out.

<<By israeli standards, i'm a left wing radical>>
israeli's have their own left wing standards? i think left wing in israel is the same as left wing in japan, or anywhere else.. correct me if i am wrong. Left wing does not mean that you dont agree with the goverment.

<<they are well funded and get all their weapons from Iran, as the recent KARIN - A ship affair proved. >>
you realize how much weapons israel recieves, and money.. correct? and as has been said already, well funded people dont go around blowing them selfs up. If israel doesnt want them having weapons, than its about time that israel gives up weapons altogether as well... that was a pretty dumb comment and shows your lack of education in the area you are talking of.

<<it is a sad fact that they want us dead.>>
okay.. lets backtrack. Whos land is israel on? how many palestinians have died compared to israelis? israel wants palestinians dead just as much if not more than the palestinian people want the israelis dead.

<<SAD BUT TRUE. >>
not true.. you just let a whole bunch of stupid shit come out of your mouth..

[guerrillaradio]

Omar Talib - OK I'm interested. Your name suggests that you are a big follower of the Taliban (obviously...duh). If that is so, then you probably are not welcome here. I have no problem with it, but right-wingers are banned from this forum by Malte, the moderator. If you are left-wing, then everyone will welcome you though.

Anyways, Mattan, start talking some sense sonny. May I remind you that your first post here said this (amongst other things):


Quote: from Mattan Lass on 3:59 pm on Mar. 11, 2002
HOW THE FUCK DO YOU THINK IT FEELS LIKE TO BE BLOWN INTO TINY BITS AS YOU TAKE YOUR KIDS FOR A PIZZA.


Ok, you are obviously being totally subjective here. You are clearly very angry and therefore biassed. You're even writing in caps lock, a surefire sign of your anger. Therefore, you cannot be expected to offer rational arguments as your opinions are influenced by your emotions.



THESE TERRORISTS WANT US DEAD. THEY HAVE KEPT THE WAR GOING FOR 53 YEARS...WE ARE UNDER SIEGE.


I'm sorry, who invaded who?? You are not under fucking siege. Arafat is under siege, he's in an underground bunker cos your helicopter, soldiers and tanks are rampaging HIS country.

Now, to your last post:


Quote: from Mattan Lass on 2:45 pm on Mar. 12, 2002
no one wants war.


What, so I was hearing things when Sharon declared a war on terror was I?? Maybe when he told Chirac that his situation in Palestine was like the French in Algeria in the 60s, except "we [the Israelis] will win", he was joking eh?? Or maybe I misheard that too. Oh, and, has he sent 10,000 troops plus many tanks and helicopters into Palestine for a tea party?? Or is to rampage and bomb the whole country, shoot idle stone-throwing kids, blindfold and gag every male from 15-40 yrs old until it's proved that they're not terrorists and many other things. A woman in a Palestinian refugee camp (yes, they even raid refugee camps) likened it to the Holocaust (which she survived), because the troops wrote a number on her arm as a means of identification.



anyway, they are well funded and get all their weapons from Iran...


Of course, the Palestinian resistance force is spectacuarly funded. They have an excellently trained frontline of thousands of 10 yr old kids armed with literally hundreds of stones.


it is a sad fact that they want us dead. i loved the peace.


Well maybe that's true of you mate (if you're advocating the current Israeli action it isn't), but is certainly isn't true of your government and the majority of your compatriots.

[GuerillaTactics]

isn't it funny how someone such as this israeli fellow, is the son or grandson of immigrants who raped pillaged and stole........wonders why the displaced and occupied palestinians fight with the unholy zionist entity.......open your eyes man

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from GuerillaTactics on 4:41 pm on Mar. 13, 2002
immigrants who raped pillaged and stole
I am in no way a Zionist and I disagree with some things that Mattan Lass has said, but the "immigrants" you're talking about were not immigrants by choice. The United Nations didn't work out a plan to help the Holocaust survivors until 1948 because the Allies were not willing to be very helpful and accept lots of people into their countries. So while I am completely sympathetic with the plight of the Palestinians, it's not the immigrants who stole. It's the British who stole in the first place and the rest of United Nations that was too stupid to let refugees into their countries. Very few Israelis had a choice about being there.

[Guest]

Quote: from Mattan Lass on 12:51 pm on Mar. 14, 2002
no, youre wrong mr. Guerilla Tactics. I'm the Grandson of a women who was raped at Auschwitz, a great nephew of four aunts who were forced to undress, dig their own graves, line up and shot in front of my grandad and his father in Poland, a decendant of those who were raped and pillaged by the Cossaks and a decendant of those burnt alive by the crusaders. Don't you fuckin tell me about suffering.


And since u know what suffering is ........... why dont u feel whats going on with the palestinians .......

A second holocaust is being committed here ........ the holocaust against the palestinian ppl .

[Reuben]

Matt Laas, my family also suffered terribly at the hands of the Cossacks and the Tzars. That was why they came here in the early part of the twentieth centrury. I sympathise with you greatly over what happened to your family. When I say this, Iam not just saying this so it can be followed by a "but". What you describe is horrendous.

However my own history deepens further my allegiance with the ethnically oppressed acros s the world. This includes both the jews who suffered under Gadaffi and the palestinians who suffered to a much greater extent in Israel.

Regarding Guests post, I would by no means want to diminish what is happening. However it is not a second holocaust, Palestinians are being ethnically cleansed (I.E. for ced to leave). However there is not a systematic attemtpt to kill every palestinian

(Edited by Reuben at 7:13 pm on Mar. 15, 2002)

[Commisar BOB]

The war in Israel is a total outrage!!! The Israelis don't have a right to the west bank or the gaza strip. They have been hebrew territory since biblical times.

This illegal INVASION of the areas by the israelis cannot be justified. If they want the violence of past weeks to end, the answer isn't a military invasion. This action will only intensify the hatred of the israelis by the palestinians. Bush wont interfere because he supports the israelis. I
f Israel ceased building houses and settlements in palestinian areas the bloodshed will end.
It is because of the British in 1948 that we have this problem. I am not anti-semitic but the israelis dont belong there. The british didnt really care about the holocaust survivors enough, they just dumped them in palestines back yard.
Few realise that the murders of palestinians are war crimes. Bush supports the mad Arial Sheron in an invasion with motives that date back to biblical times.

Israel should pack up its people and move out of Gaza and the West Bank. They have no right being there.

[Omar Talib]

Quote: from guerrillaradio on 2:26 pm on Mar. 13, 2002
Omar Talib - OK I'm interested. Your name suggests that you are a big follower of the Taliban (obviously...duh). If that is so, then you probably are not welcome here. I have no problem with it, but right-wingers are banned from this forum by Malte, the moderator. If you are left-wing, then everyone will welcome you though.



Talib is my name. Omar is a name that I like. Both are common enough names in the Muslim world.

I am not a big follower of the Taliban. But judgement of the Taliban should be reserved, and if you must judge them, remember the situation they're in. The Taliban is harsh, but think about the circumstances the movement germinated under. Drastic times call for drastic measures.

There are many people on this board who disagree strongly with American policy, sometimes to the point of even hating America. But no one here is fighting the American military in any place that it's trying to lay down hegemony. Guess who is fighting America? The Taliban.

Of course, Taliban are only human, and make mistakes. They banned their citizens from cultivating opium, but they made millions off of it each year.

I am neither a right winger nor a left winger. I believe in a politically pluralistic society, with an economic system based on Islamic principles (ie mandatory alms-giving, communal land, and a total ban on all interest on loans).

[guerrillaradio]

Still, your name is quite provocative I guess.

Re: The Taliban. Many Afghanis have said already that they miss the Taliban (although you won't read that in any mainstream broadsheet) because they were able to uphold law and order, and what the idealistic and culturally imperialistic Yanks seem to forget is that many of the Taliban's repressive laws were part of fundamentalist Muslim culture (although admittedly my knowledge of Islam is very limited).

DISCLAIMER: I am in no way signally my support for the Taliban. They ran an oppressive and terrorising regime, and I am glad that they were ousted. I am merely stating fact...

[Derar]

Quote: from guerrillaradio on 7:49 pm on Mar. 16, 2002
Still, your name is quite provocative I guess.


How can u say that someone's name is provocative !!!!

And before u say such stuff , do u know what talib , taliban mean ?

Talib means a student in The Arabic language ...... and Taliban means Students ......

it's just a normal name ..... and doesnt have to do with the taliban .

so before u judge someone again , plzz know what u r talking about .

[Omar Talib]

I'm sure many Afghans miss the Taliban.

You can make the case that women were unduly oppressed under the Taliban, but I'm sure many of those women would choose the burqa over the probability of rape. We have the same situation now as when the Soviets pulled out in '89. Afghanistan is given to warlordism (is that even a word?), and when there's no central power (eg the Taliban) the group with the most and biggest guns makes the laws, and take what they want, whether that be wealth, land, or life.

But this isn't a post about Afghanistan, it's about Palestine. I don't agree with the hardline stance of the Taliban, but relative to what they were working with and their goals, I'd say they did a good job.

And yes, Talib means student in Arabic. It's just a plain ol' word.

[guerrillaradio]

I know the meaning of Taliban...duh. And yes, you can call someone's name provocative. By provocative I meant it might PROVOKE some people eg those in the moral majority who are getting on their soapboxes about the lack of post 11/9 censorship (morons).

I have a Saudi friend and he explained that burqas are worn there and they are there to reduce the abnormally high rape rate. What shocked me was how the broadsheets reported that no women were taking off their burqas in the 'liberated' Kabul because "they were scared to". Have they considered that they might wanna wear them through choice??

OK, back to Palestine I guess...

[Reuben]

You sounike the apologists for Stalin. The Taliban sexist murderous thugs. They beat women for going out with parts of their body uncovered. They imposed nazi-like laws on the hindus who they forced to wear yellow stars, they massacred civilians.

Furthermore you said that they wwere fighting the U.S. well not so long ago they were very happy to be supported by the U.S.

Think about the disgusting restrications imposed on women and then imagine them being imposed on people simply because of there ethnicity.

Finally, what is never talked about is the oppression of secularists, atheists.


These crimes are hardly mistakes that eminate from being human

[guerrillaradio]

You obviously haven't read my disclaimer. We can't forget that the Taliban used to perform executions in the football stadiums...my point was supposed to be more a criticism of the Western press' coverage of liberated Afghanistan.

[Omar Talib]

Reuben, when I said the Taliban were fighting America, I was just stating a fact.

It's your right to express whatever you hold about me, the Taliban, or the US, but doesn't change the fact that you're still sitting on your ass complaining, helping your 'cause' by posting a few threads every now and then.

I never apologized for the actions of the Taliban. What did I say? "I don't agree with the hardline stance of the Taliban". That's another way of saying I don't condone their actions, just in case you don't know.