Why is Che so Inspirational?

[cyd]

alright guys, ive got some news to break to you che is dead, and this image you have of him is distorted. ok, ok he was a couragous guy, incredable brave and a brilliant mind. but the fact is the only reason he is held in such high esteem is because of this brand we've been sold, not only by pop culture but by god himself fidel castro. so much has been written about him that theres no mystery anymore, if there was then i could understand, tell me this why isn't there more websites about camilo cienfuegos, i tell u why because che is prettier.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

So what he does the trick. If brands turn people to everything it opposes then I find that more ironic than anything else.

[cyd]

oh my god i don't know where you live but if it's anywhere like where i am, i see che's image plastered all over trendy fashion students, see lighters, ashtrays, cd covers blah blah blah and they don't know his name let alone his politics, i'm sorry sweetheart but that idea is way too naive. i reacon mos of the people on this site have never even read his work, an i aint talkin about motocyle diaries, i mean his actual thoretical work. in anycase his stuff is overrated, the whole new man ting is only what rousseau was saying 100 years before.

[nicolas_c]

cyd,
careful when you generalize. Some of us have read his works and admire him for his passion and commitment to his beliefs and to see his ideals carried out. What you say is true, pop culture has grossly bastardized the man's beliefs/politics/etc. and most people don't know who he is. I own a Che t-shirt and people have told me, "cool shirt... is that Jesus?" so I definitely understand you point there. I myself often look for sites dedicated to other revolutionaries, such as Carlos Fonseca, Augusto Sandino, Rigoberto Perez Lopez (founders and beginning members of the Sandinista party in Nicaragua) or any of the other countless brave people who have fought and/or died to see social justice in their country and I usually don't find a lot of search results. But despite all of this, I cannot allow the pop culture's misrepresentation of Che take away from my admiration of the man. I admired him and read about him long before I paid attention to the pop culture BS... Here in Oregon he's not too big a pop icon.

[toastedmonkey]

camilo cienfuegos didnt have the "romantic" death that guevara had, he died in a plane crash not "killing cappies", some people are obsessed with romantic deaths, that is why they look to guevara.

Dont get me wrong, Cienfeugos was no less a man than Guevara, but he wasnt a martyr for communism, guevar was really the first martyr of communism.
Making him far more "appealing" to young folk

thats the difference between Cienfeugos and Guevara, and the reason why there isnt a "ceinfeugos-lives.com" site

[cyd]

don't get me wrong i do admire che very much, however he was a normal guy who made mistakes. it just annoying when people look at che as some kind of mythical god. the fact is that he had all these qualities like charisma and charm that have been exploited to sell an image of youth and rebellion, christ the guy was middle aged when he died! like you say so many people have fought under terrible adversity for the cause and recieve no recognition which is truley a bigger tragedy than che dieing. but the fact is that che is an icon, up there with marilyn monroe and elvis he's a comodity, bought and sold. and weather we see the whoring of his image a way of spreading the word or the ultimate in betrayal it's only gonna get worst with two films coming out about him, one a big budget hollywood affair, think of the merchandise and americanization....if u lisen closely u can hear che spinning in his grave.

[cyd]

MR T-M you need to check your history book Camilo does have the romance and the mystery.
1) of all his body was never discovered
2) hes a working class dun gud
3) he died way way before his time
4) there have been so many conspiracy theories (personally i think CIA)
5) even the man ernesto idolised him

[toastedmonkey]

yes, im not disputing those facts, but those facts dont make the romantic image many teenagers are looking for.

His life was cut awfully short, im sure he would of be as a big an international image during his life as guevara was, speaking at the UN etc.
But it didnt happen, and its harder for those teenagers to reach

[cyd]

i appriciate what your sayin but i'm 20 an i've been readin socialism since i was like 14 or somthin, an i wasn't interested in che an gang cause it was like a shakesperian play i loved it because it spoke to me as a working class girl it inspired me to form opinions and views independent of ma peers. call me traditional but that is what politics is about not cult of personality.

[Louis Pio]

I have to admit that che has never been any great inspiration to me, so now I will probably get kicked out :unsure:
It's just that there is so many people who did the same amount of work or more than Che.
But if idolising Che get some young people to move towards communism then I guess it is ok. ;)

[Wiesty]

It because che's actions and words have taught us that the weak, the shy the ones who are thought to be inferior to others can learn to stand up for themselves and what they believe in and share there opinions or struggle with the world

[cyd]

wiesty mate i was told that as a kid but i was told it was jesus. communists believe in equality for all so i wasn't just che.

[cyd]

teis babe
it's like i said before i'm of the persuission that if people are going to turn to a political persuision it should because they are inspired and feel moved by the writings and the struggles. but thu a pop icon it's not the way it should be. i love che i thik he's a well top bloke but it's just the way he's been idolised it would make his communist soul break

[toastedmonkey]

cyd

i completely agree with you but i was responding to this...


tell me this why isn't there more websites about camilo cienfuegos

[Comrade Zeke]

tell me this why isn't there more websites about camilo cienfuegos


This is why there is no websties on hims first off the Capitalists have made the Cuban Revolution the most evil thing in the whole world, So everyone ACCEPT Fidel and Che have been over looked. Che Guevara is a roly model to a lot of people and Fidel Castro is and evil vilian, I don't her much stories on Camilo. After the Capitalists the Cuban Government has wiped out most memory of Camilo because he was not a "Communist" Che Guevara however was the first one and was also responsible for making Fidel a Communist.
Sorry about spelling
Zeke

[Ortega]

DID SOMEONE SAY CAMILO CIENFUEGOS?!?!

Oh goodness, I can't believe I didn't see this thread earlier.

You want to know why there aren't more sites on Camilo? Because, first of all, he had no specific political ideology. Many who knew him say that he was a loose Democratic Socialist, but he was most certainly not a communist like Che and Fidel.

Secondly, Camilo didn't die the glamourous death that Che did. Camilo (though he certainly is by now) might not even be dead! He only 'dissapeared,' and no body was ever found.

Thirdly, Camilo was never promoted by Fidel's government as Che has been. His face is not on the side of the Plaza del Revolucion, his momuments are fewer, and October 28th (Camilo's 'official holiday') is nothing compared to October 11th (Che's 'Day of the Heroic Guerrilla') in Cuba.

I could get into all of this so much more, but those are the three basic reasons.

http://himm.250free.com/camilosmiley.JPG

Viva Camilo!

[ComradeRed]

In a nutshell, it is because he fought and died for what he believed in; like Goethe once said If you can believe it, think it, imagine it, then you can begin it. Initiative has boldness, character, and a certain magic in it.

[cyd]

regardless of how lefti he was. i still believe that the reason che is more universilly known is because he's pretty. in theory Camilo sould be an icon, like i said b4 he was working class, died young and under mysterious certain circumstances. you'd of thought by now, hollywood would of sone a film on him. i wanna know why didn't Fidel whore camilo memory like he did Che's (other than the fact that che lived longer) i still think it's because che's look is more appealing he's pretty and (waiting 4 the backlash) camilo is darker skinned.

[Hiero]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2004, 04:20 PM
guevar was really the first martyr of communism.

Sardar Bhagat Singh (1907 - 1931)

Thats really the only well known one that i know, but there would of been many in the russian revolution.

[karma-cola]

Originally posted by comrade neonate+May 12 2004, 05:26 AM--> (comrade neonate @ May 12 2004, 05:26 AM)
[email protected] 10 2004, 04:20 PM
guevar was really the first martyr of communism.

Sardar Bhagat Singh (1907 - 1931)

Thats really the only well known one that i know, but there would of been many in the russian revolution. [/b]
Bhagat singh is the famous revolutionary from india.
Bhagat singh was not much into communism but he was an atheist.
He was initially a follower of gandhi but
when gandhi stopped his satyagraha after the chauri chaura incident

Bhagat singh was dillusioned.

He joined the ghadar party a party that wanted independence by violence

He was hanged by the british .

He does not have universal appeal like che but is
popular only in india.

But he was also good looking.

[suffianr]

regardless of how lefti he was. i still believe that the reason che is more universilly known is because he's pretty.

OK, but apart from you, who's complaining?

The way I see it, Che's status as a cultural icon is marked by accessibility and outspokenness, two traits which pretty much overwhelm his generation's outlook on communism, and as far as this forum is concerned, our's too. The idea that you, cyd, find his roguish good looks to be more bankable than his beliefs, is just plain cynical. :lol:

[cyd]

bollox

[cyd]

ahh mate but it's true che's a pin up

[toastedmonkey]

Originally posted by comrade neonate+May 12 2004, 06:26 AM--> (comrade neonate @ May 12 2004, 06:26 AM)
[email protected] 10 2004, 04:20 PM
guevar was really the first martyr of communism.

Sardar Bhagat Singh (1907 - 1931)

Thats really the only well known one that i know, but there would of been many in the russian revolution. [/b]
sorry, i worded that terribly, i should of said "to the best of my knowledge" and my comment was greatly disrespectful to the thousands that have probbaly died fighting for "leftism"

For Gods Sake cyd, yes he was a pin-up, but that ISNT the only thing that he achived in his life.

get over it

[Ortega]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2004, 10:06 PM
i still think it's because che's look is more appealing he's pretty and (waiting 4 the backlash) camilo is darker skinned.
Camilo was actually very white, but you're absolutely right otherwise.

Compare this man:

http://home.hetnet.nl/~gwiny/Cuba/Ernesto%20Che%20Guevara%20klein.jpg

To this one:

http://www.historyofcuba.com/images/camilo.jpg

And you can easily see which one would make a better 'poster child' for revolution.

http://himm.250free.com/camilosmiley.JPG

[cyd]

na i was sayin that che is more western looking than Camilo.

[Le Libérer]

Originally posted by Jacobo Arbenz+May 12 2004, 05:59 PM--> (Jacobo Arbenz @ May 12 2004, 05:59 PM)
[email protected] 11 2004, 10:06 PM
i still think it's because che's look is more appealing he's pretty and (waiting 4 the backlash) camilo is darker skinned.
Camilo was actually very white, but you're absolutely right otherwise.

Compare this man:

http://home.hetnet.nl/~gwiny/Cuba/Ernesto%20Che%20Guevara%20klein.jpg

To this one:

http://www.historyofcuba.com/images/camilo.jpg

And you can easily see which one would make a better 'poster child' for revolution.

http://himm.250free.com/camilosmiley.JPG [/b]
CHe obviously had more of a fashion sense as well. That straw hat vs a beret? Hands down the winner ;)

[emmissary]

Che is very much so idolized. But with reason. His teachings have sparked revolution throughout the world and have inspired people like ourselves to voice our opinions and fight right wing capitalism/imperialism. One must see Che's flaws, however, and realize also that he was just a man and instead of following his footsteps we should make our own paths.

[cyd]

emmissary, u put that so beautifully thats how i feel, i was on a thread the other day questioning Che's fidelity and his love for his children, the way people where talking was like they where scared to even critisise him a little.

p.s beret wins every time. but do u think that che is the only person that has ever really pulled it off. (now thats a disscussion thread!!!)

[RedAnarchist]

Che would be more annyoed that people couldnt criticize him then if you did. He never saw himself as anything more than a human being fighting for commuinism. He did not see himself as some vanguard or figurehead of the revolution. He was modest.

[Essential Insignificance]

He was modest.

In some regards, yes.