NOFX

[Guest1]

Shit, I've really been getting into punk these days, and I've gotten so much into NOFX.

There's this one song I can't go without listening to at least once a day.

Just read the fucking lyrics and you'll see why (oh fuck, I'm pretty high):

NOFX LYRICS

"The Decline"

Where are all the stupid people from?
And how'd they get to be so dumb?
Bred on purple mountain range
Feed amber waves of grains
To lesser human beings, zero feelings

Blame it on
Human nature, mans destiny (mans destiny)
Blame it on the greediocracy (greediocracy)
Fear of God
The fear of change
The fear of truth

Add the Bill of Rights, subtract the wrongs
There's no answers
Memorize and sing star spangled songs
When the questions
Aren't ever asked
Is anybody learning from the past?
We're living in united stagnation

Father what have I done?
I took that 22
A gift to me from you
To bed with me each night
Kept it clean
Polished it well
Cherished every cartridge, every shell

Down, by the creek, under brush, under dirt
There's a carcass of my second kill
Down, by the park, under stone, under pine
There's a carcass of my brother William
Brother where, have you gone to?
I swear, I never thought I could
I see so many times
They told me to shoot straight
Don't pull the trigger, squeeze
That will insure a kill
A kill is what you want
A kill is why we breed

The Christians love their guns
The church and NRA
Pray for their salvations
Prey on the lower faiths

The story book's been read
And every line believed
Curriculum's been set
Logic is a threat
Reason searched and seized

Jerry spent some time in Michigan
A twenty year vacation, after all he had a dime
A dime is worth a lot more in Detroit
A dime in California, a twenty dollar fine

Jerry only stayed a couple months
It's hard to enjoy yourself while bleeding out the ass
Asphyxiation is simple and fast
It beats seventeen fun years of being someones *****

Don't think (Stay)
Drink your wine (Home)
Watch the fire burn (Be)
His problems not mine (Safe)
Just be that model citizen

I wish I had a schilling
(For each senseless killing)
For every senseless killing
I'd buy a government
America's for sale
And you can get a good deal on it
(A good deal on it)
And make a healthy profit
Or maybe, tear it apart
Start with assumption
That a million people are smart
Smarter than one

Serotonin's gone
She gave up, drifted away
Sara fled, thought process gone
She left her answering machine on
The greeting left spoken sincere
Messages no one will ever hear

Ten thousand messages a day
A million more transmissions lay
Victims of the laissez faire
Ten thousand voices, a hundred guns
A hundred decibels turns to one
One bullet, one empty head
Now with Serotonin gone

The man who used to speak
Performs a cute routine
Feel a little patronized
Don't feel bad
They found a way inside your head
And you feel a bit misled
It's not that they don't care, yeah

The television's put a thought inside your head
Llike a Barry Manilow, jingle
I'd like, to teach the world to sing
In perfect harmony
A symphonic blank stare, yeah
It doesn't make you care (make you care)
Not designed to make you care (make you care)
They're betting you won't care (you won't...)

Place a wager on your greed
A wager on your pride
Why try to beat them when, a million others tried?

We are the whore
Intellectually spayed
We are the queer
Dysfunctionally raised

One more pill to kill the pain
One more pill to kill the pain
One more pill to kill the pain
Living through conformity

One more prayer to keep me safe
One more prayer to keep us warm
One more prayer to keep us safe
There's gonna be a better place

Lost the battle, lost the war
Lost the things worth living for
Lost the will to win the fight
One more pill to kill the pain

Na na na na na
La na na na na
Na na na na na
Na na na na na

The going get tough, the tough get debt
Don't pay attention, pay the rent
Next of kins pay for your sins
A little faith should keep us safe

Save us
The human, existence
Is failing, resistance
Essential, the future
Written off, the odds are
Astronomically against us
Only moron and genius
Would fight a losing battle
Against the super ego
When giving in is so damn comforting

And so we go, on with our lives
We know the truth, but prefer lies
Lies are simple, simple is bliss
Why go against tradition when we can
Admit defeat, live in decline
Be the victim of our own design
The status quo, built on suspect
Why would anyone stick out their neck?

Fellow members
Club "We've Got Ours"
I'd like to introduce you to our host
He's got his, and I've got mine
Meet the decline

We are the queer
We are the whore
Ammunition
In the class war
We are worker
We love our queen
We sacrifice
We're soilent green

We are the queer
We are the whore
Ammunition
In the class war

[Urban Rubble]

The Decline is like 15 minutes long, I love that song.

Say what you want about their music, but NOFX is the epitome of a punk band. Those motherfuckers practice what they preach.

[hawarameen]

yeah they are good, i really like the skin of the cd with bush on it made to look like a clown.

[Kaan]

You do know that NOFX hates hippies, right? Being that I have hippy tendencies (vegetarian, long hair, a taste for the reefer) it struck me as odd, but i stopped caring about that they're still a pretty good band, and have only been getting better as of late. the war on errorism is one their better albums, and i recommend that everyone steal a copy (Punk as Fuck).

[ComradeJunichi]

NOFX isn't the epitome of a punk band in my opinion.

Oh yeah, hippies fucking suck.

[Urban Rubble]

Technically, I hate hippies too. But alot of you guys are alright, so I guess that's not really true.

Joon, the reason I say they're the epitome of a punk band is because they've had so many opportunities to whore themselves and they never take it. I mean, it's easy to say you're underground when nobody wants to hear you anyways. NOFX could be huge if they wanted, but they don't want to. I mean, they're pretty huge, but the guys pulled their first video off the air because Fat Mike felt it was wrong. I don't know, read their interview in the new AMP magazine. Fat Mike "keeps it real", as they say. Plus, he runs his label very well, all his employees are very well taken care of.

[Guest1]

I don't really consider myself a hippy, but I like saying I am, kind of my nickname now.

[guerrillaradio]

Originally posted by Urban [email protected] 6 2004, 02:47 PM
Say what you want about their music, but NOFX is the epitome of a punk band.
You're kidding right??

[El Brujo]

NOFX is great but I really wouldn't call them the "epitome of punk." As some of you probably know, NOFX were a hardcore band in the 80's and now they play more poppier stuff, which is a million times better "MTV punk" but it did and does have a tendency to fit in to the new punk fad, even though they technically aren't "mainstream." They haven't degenerated and become radio/MTV whores like some of the other "94 explosion" bands and I respect them for that, as well as sticking to what they believe in.

And yes, NOFX (and punk in general, no matter what the "anarcho-peace crustie" crowd tells you) isn't for hippies. Im not gonna tell you what you should or shouldn't listen to in private but just don't show up at their shows, for our good as well as yours.

[Guest1]

Can you shut the fuck up?

That would be good. Either that or read my post above.

[ComradeJunichi]

NOFX isn't even part of the punk scene, noone in the scene gives two shits about them.


"LoVe, PeAcE, HaSh, MuSiC"
"I don't really consider myself a hippy"

:rolleyes:

[Guest1]

Sorry, did I offend the bonehead's fad-sensibilities?

What would you prefer? HaTe, WaR, CoKe, NoIsE?

Sounds like bonehead bullshit to me.

[guerrillaradio]

Originally posted by El [email protected] 7 2004, 08:59 PM
And yes, NOFX (and punk in general, no matter what the "anarcho-peace crustie" crowd tells you) isn't for hippies. Im not gonna tell you what you should or shouldn't listen to in private but just don't show up at their shows, for our good as well as yours.
Nah, NOFX is for Hot Topic kids with Linkin Park hoodies they haven't washed in 3 years.

[El Brujo]

I know (damn well too. All the pop-punk jocks in my high school were fans of them). I was just making a general statement.

[ComradeJunichi]

Originally posted by Che y [email protected] 7 2004, 10:29 PM
Sorry, did I offend the bonehead's fad-sensibilities?

What would you prefer? HaTe, WaR, CoKe, NoIsE?

Sounds like bonehead bullshit to me.
You're fucking dumb.

Do you know even know what a bonehead is?

[guerrillaradio]

It's a guy who has bones in his head....?

[ComradeJunichi]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2004, 11:22 PM
It's a guy who has bones in his head....?
No! It's someone who's head is made out of bone.

[Guest1]

No! It's someone who's head is made out of bone.
Well then, that label fits you better than I thought.

[ComradeJunichi]

Haha, yep, my heads made outta bonnnnnnnnnneee!

[Guest1]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2004, 06:34 PM
Haha, yep, my heads made outta bonnnnnnnnnneee!
Weeee, yeah! It's something to be proud of, being a thick-headed, cultural Fascist.

The only thing that sets you and the mainstream apart is the music you're into. Your attitude is all about conformity.

[ComradeJunichi]

Originally posted by Che y Marijuana+May 7 2004, 11:37 PM--> (Che y Marijuana @ May 7 2004, 11:37 PM)
[email protected] 7 2004, 06:34 PM
Haha, yep, my heads made outta bonnnnnnnnnneee!
Weeee, yeah! It's something to be proud of, being a thick-headed, cultural Fascist.

The only thing that sets you and the mainstream apart is the music you're into. Your attitude is all about conformity. [/b]
Yeah! You're like an encyclopedia.

[Guest1]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2004, 06:39 PM
Yeah! You're like an encyclopedia.
Too bad, what you really need is a Thesaurus and some books by Bakunin.

[Urban Rubble]

NOFX is great but I really wouldn't call them the "epitome of punk."

Yeah. I went a bit far with that. What I mean is that they have represented punk fairly, and they have kept to their word and ideals.


And yes, NOFX (and punk in general, no matter what the "anarcho-peace crustie" crowd tells you) isn't for hippies. Im not gonna tell you what you should or shouldn't listen to in private but just don't show up at their shows, for our good as well as yours.

Fuck that. CyM, go wherever you want. People might fuck with you, they might even want to fight you, but don't let that get you down. Punks can be exlusive idiots, especially the "real" punks who think it's their duty to exclude people from their scene. However, the majority of punks are good people who will accept you for what you are, provided you aren't a total tool, or an asshole.


NOFX isn't even part of the punk scene, noone in the scene gives two shits about them.

In the scene or in your scene. Please don't tell me you're one of these NYC kids who thinks the punk world revolves around them and their narrow definition of what punk/hardcore is.

Fuck that.


Nah, NOFX is for Hot Topic kids with Linkin Park hoodies they haven't washed in 3 years.

You must have a problem distinguishing a band from their fans.

Yes, alot/most of NOFX fans are dumbfucks that have no clue of what the punk scene is about. However, NOFX as a band have not contributed to that phenomenon at all. They don't make videos, they don't promote themselves and they don't get played on the radio. The only reason so many people are drawn to them is because they are so damned good, and their music is a little more melodic that most "underground" punk bands.

NOFX is not to blame for the idiots that listen to them. They have "kept it real" in every possible way.


CyM and Joon, I think you guys need to just get it over with. Go meet up at a truckstop, get the key to the bathroom and go fuck. We can all tell that's what you guys really want. You can cut the sexual tension in this thread with a spoon.

[Guest1]

Urban, don't worry, I've been going to punk bars and shows for a long time.

Montreal's not got alot of the bullshit that seems to go on elsewhere, I'm friends with alot of punks, and street punks, our fights are with the police, not each other.

[ComradeJunichi]

Oh shit, nigga. You figured us out, Rubble. By the way, what's your name?

Yeah, you did go overboard with NOFX = Epitome of punk. You can think they're real good if you want but in my opinion, they aren't punk.

I went over board with NOFX not being part of the scene, a bunch of people still listen and appreciate it but generally people don't listen to it. It's a low-preference band, you see more kids with Nihilistics patches and shit than NOFX.

[Urban Rubble]

By the way, what's your name?

Tyler. I hate it. I'm changing it to Damien, or Rod, or something totally bad ass.


Yeah, you did go overboard with NOFX = Epitome of punk. You can think they're real good if you want but in my opinion, they aren't punk.

Not punk at all huh ? Musically speaking or ideologically speaking ? Explain.


I went over board with NOFX not being part of the scene, a bunch of people still listen and appreciate it but generally people don't listen to it. It's a low-preference band, you see more kids with Nihilistics patches and shit than NOFX.

Shit, I hardly listen to NOFX anymore. But I do respect them immensley.

[ComradeJunichi]

Oh yeah, now I remember. Tyler...meh. Haha, just kidding, no disrespect for names.

I wouldn't know much about them ideologically, but I do know they set shit up like "Not My President" and "Punk Voter". As for punk-ideals, meh, I don't really know or care much. Being punk has to do with the whole DIY but it also deals with the style of music and NOFX isn't punk.

Speaking of NOFX, a Korean band named GUM (I think) are on Fat Wreckchords. We used to know them in Korea.

[guerrillaradio]

This British political punk fanzine called Artcore summed up NOFX pretty well:

"Y'see, if anyone remembers, NOFX were one of those bands who spent the 90s promoting the anti-politics, the 'goofing off with your dumb buddies' that became so trendy with all the skater-moron brigade, and is hence what we see all over Kerrang! and TV nowadays"

(Incidentally, before Tyler Rubble has a fit, Artcore is far from anti-skating)

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by El [email protected] 7 2004, 08:59 PM
And yes, NOFX (and punk in general, no matter what the "anarcho-peace crustie" crowd tells you) isn't for hippies. Im not gonna tell you what you should or shouldn't listen to in private but just don't show up at their shows, for our good as well as yours.
My god what bullshit.

Its doesnt matter what you believe in or any shit like that to see a band live. Whenever I see bands live I dress and act how I want, and ive never had any trouble. I dont wear jeans with tears in them, and all that shit. I usually wear normal cloaths, and put a band t-shirt over the top when I get their. I never look like the people around me.

Hell im not going to be told who or what I can go and see live, by anyone.

[guerrillaradio]

Brujo I think anyone can go to an NOFX show...or any punk show, as long as they show some fucking respect for what people have put in fucking years of work for. I sure as hell won't judge someone who turns up to a UKHC show on how they dress.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 01:33 PM
Brujo I think anyone can go to an NOFX show...or any punk show, as long as they show some fucking respect for what people have put in fucking years of work for. I sure as hell won't judge someone who turns up to a UKHC show on how they dress.
Exactly, but if you didnt respect the band, then you wouldn't go to see them live, it maks no sense what Brujo is saying.

[ComradeJunichi]

El Brujo is right.

You try going to a Oi!/hardcore show dressed up as a hippie.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 02:09 PM
El Brujo is right.

You try going to a Oi!/hardcore show dressed up as a hippie.
Then what? Nothing, no one will do any thing, unless they are elitest morons.

[Urban Rubble]

(Incidentally, before Tyler Rubble has a fit, Artcore is far from anti-skating)


Where did that come from ? I don' really get what you're trying to say.

Anyway, whatever "artcore" is, I'm sure it's not anti skating. Skatboarding has a long history of producing artists. Two of the hottest artists alive right now are pro skaters, Ed Templeton and Mark Gonzalez. Those two are huge in the Euro art snob world. Ed sold a painting for like 10 grand a few months ago.


Being punk has to do with the whole DIY but it also deals with the style of music and NOFX isn't punk.

Meh, I disagree. I think NOFX are completely punk, perhaps not as fast and as hardcore as some of the bands you like, but to say they don't play punk rock is pushing it.



Joon comes from a different scene. You most likely would get beat up at an NYHC for a really stupid reason like you don't dress "right". It's pretty fucking retarted and again, I'm suprised Joon is perpetuating it, but that's just how it is in some places. Some people are fucking idiots and like to harrass people for "not belonging" or not being "punk enough". It is is pure elitist bullshit perpetuated by kids who were excluded in high school, and now that they have the chance to be elitist pricks like the jocks they used to hate so much (but have now become) they take it without a second thought. It's bullshit, and anyone who says it inspires unity in the punk scene is a fucking fool.

When did punks become the new jocks ? Was Ian McKaye right ?

I'm glad I don't have to deal with that bullshit in my scene. Any "punk" that would try to kick someone's ass for not conforming to their dress standrads would have the shit turned around on him realy quick. There isn't alot of fighting in our scene for small things, but one thing that would be sure to start a fight is people trying to exclude others based on appearances and knee jerk reactions. So what if someone dresses like a "hippy", why is that deserving of an ass kicking ? Why does it bother you to have an outsider at a show ? Why would you choose to alienate someone instead of embracing them and showing them what you believe to be a better way ?

[El Brujo]

It's not about being "elitist" or "exclusive" at all, its about common sense. I went to hardcore shows as a metalhead and I never got any problems (though I did get "nasty looks") but hippies just don't get along with the punk/skinhead/hc kid crowd and they never have, so its reasonable to think that your looking for trouble if your a hippie and you go to one of those shows, just like I would be looking for trouble if I showed up at a white power show or some dude with a Skrewdriver patch would if he showed up at a ska show. It's nothing personal (though I don't like hippies either).

[guerrillaradio]

Originally posted by Urban [email protected] 8 2004, 05:29 PM

(Incidentally, before Tyler Rubble has a fit, Artcore is far from anti-skating)


Where did that come from ? I don' really get what you're trying to say.
I know you're into skating and Artcore talked about "skater morons".

[guerrillaradio]

Originally posted by Enigma+May 8 2004, 01:40 PM--> (Enigma @ May 8 2004, 01:40 PM)
[email protected] 8 2004, 01:33 PM
Brujo I think anyone can go to an NOFX show...or any punk show, as long as they show some fucking respect for what people have put in fucking years of work for. I sure as hell won't judge someone who turns up to a UKHC show on how they dress.
Exactly, but if you didnt respect the band, then you wouldn't go to see them live, it maks no sense what Brujo is saying. [/b]
I'm not talking about the band, I'm talking about the scene. When kids turn up to shows and think it's all a joke, that's when I condone violence. An example of this is Converge in Leeds in January when some guy was mocking hardcore dancing. He got taken out and hasn't been seen again. Good fucking riddance.

[ComradeJunichi]

You're right, Tyler. I guess they do play punk but just a different subgenre that I don't really like.

As for perpetuating it. It's not because they "don't dress right", it's because they're hippies. You don't come to a hardcore/Oi! show if you're a hippie, y'know? You have to have some common sense. Plenty of people I know don't wear tight jeans, grinder/docs, and shit like that. I really couldn't give a shit unless you're a crusty, hippie piece of shit.

[Guest1]

Joon, I'm inviting you out to montreal for a weekend of drinking and moshing.

How does that sound?

I swear I won't beat the fuck out of you :P

No seriously, I wanna show you how the scene is here. If anybody gets jumped at the shows, I bet you it'll be you :lol: With an attitude like that, I really wouldn't be surprised if you got some beef with the Quebecers and we had to bail you out.

[Pingu]

i like them :P

Their covers of Rancid are good

[Ian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2004, 07:38 AM
Their covers of Rancid are good
HAHAHAHAHA CLASSIC!


oh... wait... I hope that was a joke... ;) :P

[Guest1]

Oh yeah, rancid's not cool! Must have missed the memo :P

So did you guys see the summer styles on the runway? They're going for an NYHC badass theme this year, so cool!

I gotta get myself a new outfit like that, I wouldn't wanna be called a poser afterall.

Ya, like, totally.

lol, sorry, I hate fad-chasers. If you like the music, listen to it. If you like the clothes, dress it. Drop this bullshit posturing and ruffling feathers and measuring cocks.

Sorry Ian, I'm not attacking you or anything, I just haven't slept in a day, or two, or maybe three... I don't quite recall. The paranoia and snapped psyche is beginning to take its toll.

[ComradeJunichi]

Originally posted by Che y [email protected] 10 2004, 06:40 AM
Joon, I'm inviting you out to montreal for a weekend of drinking and moshing.

How does that sound?

I swear I won't beat the fuck out of you :P

No seriously, I wanna show you how the scene is here. If anybody gets jumped at the shows, I bet you it'll be you :lol: With an attitude like that, I really wouldn't be surprised if you got some beef with the Quebecers and we had to bail you out.
Another dumbass who thinks the internet is a total mirror reflection of who a person is.

Kid, what are you retarded? Grow up.

[Guest1]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2004, 05:35 AM
Grow up.
HAHAHAHAHA

Wow, that was funny man. :lol: Thanks, I needed some comic relief.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by ComradeJunichi+May 10 2004, 10:35 AM--> (ComradeJunichi @ May 10 2004, 10:35 AM)
Che y [email protected] 10 2004, 06:40 AM
Joon, I'm inviting you out to montreal for a weekend of drinking and moshing.

How does that sound?

I swear I won't beat the fuck out of you :P

No seriously, I wanna show you how the scene is here. If anybody gets jumped at the shows, I bet you it'll be you :lol: With an attitude like that, I really wouldn't be surprised if you got some beef with the Quebecers and we had to bail you out.
Another dumbass who thinks the internet is a total mirror reflection of who a person is.

Kid, what are you retarded? Grow up. [/b]
Umm I was under the impression (possibly wrongly) that you were like 15-16 and Che y was a 20 somthing.

perhaps I have made an error, but maybe the agism bull is not applicable in any situation, least of all this one.

[guerrillaradio]

Originally posted by Che y Marijuana+May 10 2004, 08:19 PM--> (Che y Marijuana @ May 10 2004, 08:19 PM)
[email protected] 10 2004, 05:35 AM
Grow up.
HAHAHAHAHA

Wow, that was funny man. :lol: Thanks, I needed some comic relief. [/b]
Innit. :lol:

[Urban Rubble]

perhaps I have made an error, but maybe the agism bull is not applicable in any situation, least of all this one.

"Ageism" is acceptable in most cases.

Is it "ageism" if I "discriminate" against me 3 year old nephew by not letting him handle my gun or drive my car ? What about if he's 8 ? 10 ?

The fact is, you can find info to prove all this very easily. Your brain develops as you age, this ain't rocket science. Between the ages of roughly 12 and 18 your brains develops most of it's critical thinking nerves. Kids are dumber than adults, it's a fact.

[DaCuBaN]

Between the ages of roughly 12 and 18 your brains develops most of it's critical thinking nerves. Kids are dumber than adults, it's a fact.

That does not give us adults the right to patronise children though - their view of the world can often be of great benefit to us. Not always, but chastising them doesn&#39;t really solve much <_<

[ComradeJunichi]

Chastising them does serve well, I&#39;m glad I was punished as a kid because I&#39;ve turned out as a kid well disciplined and well mannered. I&#39;m proud of my parents and I&#39;m proud of who I am.

I&#39;m with Tyler, kids are dumb - adults aren&#39;t (generally). I&#39;ve realized this through personal experience.

[DaCuBaN]

Personally, i never had a violent childhood, but if I did something deemed &#39;wrong&#39; I would be chastised - this in itself is not unfair, but in me all this did was drive me further and further from my folks, and make me far less amiable, more pedantic and arrogant. It basically wound me up as a result of my impotence in the scenario - something that took a lot of self observation to eradicate

As such, I cannot advocate chastising children. Guilt in my case would have probably worked better.

[guerrillaradio]

Quit being so negative.

Youth is empowering. Idealism, self-belief and convictions are far more valuable to someone younger than 20 than over 20. If the world&#39;s gonna change, it&#39;ll be kids our age at the forefront.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by Urban [email protected] 11 2004, 01:01 AM

perhaps I have made an error, but maybe the agism bull is not applicable in any situation, least of all this one.

"Ageism" is acceptable in most cases.

Is it "ageism" if I "discriminate" against me 3 year old nephew by not letting him handle my gun or drive my car ? What about if he&#39;s 8 ? 10 ?

The fact is, you can find info to prove all this very easily. Your brain develops as you age, this ain&#39;t rocket science. Between the ages of roughly 12 and 18 your brains develops most of it&#39;s critical thinking nerves. Kids are dumber than adults, it&#39;s a fact.
True, but in taste in music...?

Or in politics, not to sound big headed, I at the age of 13 probably knew more about politics than most voting adults.


Ageism is bullshit when one places it in this scenario, though in many situations, like the ones you mentioned, it does have some relevance.

However my point was that Che y is actually older than Junachi.

[Guest1]

Yeah, I am, but only by two years.

He&#39;s older than my younger brother by 13 days.

[Urban Rubble]

Yeah, well, I&#39;m older than all of you. Bow down *****es.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by Urban [email protected] 12 2004, 02:57 AM
Yeah, well, I&#39;m older than all of you. Bow down *****es.
Yeah, you may be older than me, but that also means that chanses are you will be senile old goat before me.

:D

(J/K)

[El Brujo]

Im gonna agree that ageism is necessary in most cases. It&#39;s ridiculous to be extremely PC towards children like in the US. It&#39;s come to the point where parents don&#39;t even care about their children because asserting their authority over them will "ruin their individuality." Like one day, I was driving home through some apartments I usually pass by and this kid went running after a handball in front of my car. The mom was just sitting there smiling, while her kid nearly got run over by me, and then I would be the one getting into trouble (both consciously and legally) for what happened if i would have killed the kid. I seriously felt like getting out of my car and smacking her in the face. Anyhow, there&#39;s the two cents from the macho latin guy. :)

Oh yes, and happy 20th birthday to me, you scronny little teenage *****es. :D

[celtopunk]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2004, 01:33 AM
I&#39;m with Tyler, kids are dumb - adults aren&#39;t (generally). I&#39;ve realized this through personal experience.
As someone who has been both and has kids I would have to disagree with this statement. Kids aren&#39;t dumb they are quite often ignorant (lacking knowledge) but not dumb. Unlike most adults kids are more willing to learn, and want to learn. And kids that aren&#39;t interested in learning probably pick that up from their parents.

[Urban Rubble]

As someone who has been both and has kids I would have to disagree with this statement. Kids aren&#39;t dumb they are quite often ignorant (lacking knowledge) but not dumb. Unlike most adults kids are more willing to learn, and want to learn. And kids that aren&#39;t interested in learning probably pick that up from their parents.

I totally agree. I mean, I&#39;m only 21 and I don&#39;t have any kids, but I&#39;m around them alot. Kids aren&#39;t dumb, I&#39;d consider them ignorant, though that too sounds a bit harsh. They&#39;re kids, what else can you say ? They aren&#39;t "dumb", they&#39;re just young, underdeveloped. I&#39;m sure alot of things I do, 40 year olds look at as completely stupid, and they&#39;re probably right. I&#39;m sure when I&#39;m that age, I&#39;ll look at myself now and see how ignorant I was, and believe me, at this point I think I&#39;m one smart, worldly motherfucker. :lol:

[celtopunk]

Originally posted by Urban [email protected] 13 2004, 03:59 AM

I totally agree. I mean, I&#39;m only 21 and I don&#39;t have any kids, but I&#39;m around them alot. Kids aren&#39;t dumb, I&#39;d consider them ignorant, though that too sounds a bit harsh.
I don&#39;t really consider ignorant to be a bad.

ignorant adj.
1. Lacking education or knowledge.
2. Showing or arising from a lack of education or knowledge: an ignorant mistake.
3. Unaware or uninformed.

Kids can&#39;t help but be somewhat ignorant as they lack experience and formal education.

It isn&#39;t necessarily intentional. And with most kids it isn&#39;t, adults however often tend to be willfully ignorant.