Eye for an eye!

[lucid]

Don't forget how Iraqis treated US soldiers! (http://www.drudgereport.com/AJ.jpg)

[Raisa]

Not even President Bush says that.
Who cares how they treat US soldiers, The US Soldiers are supposed to be the good guys or they have no reason to be in Iraq.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2004, 08:48 PM
Don't forget how Iraqis treated US soldiers! (http://www.drudgereport.com/AJ.jpg)
Yes! You're right. One dictator justifies another one. The Iraqi people defended against invaders with machineguns! Can you believe it and there was blood. No fake blood like in Rambo but real blood. The sort of blood that FOX doesn't broadcast. Torturing Iraqi's, killing them in the name of freedom is perfectly justifiable now :angry:

[New Tolerance]

Hey, this is war, what's the big deal?

[lucid]

Originally posted by Non-Sectarian Bastard!+May 3 2004, 10:29 PM--> (Non-Sectarian Bastard! @ May 3 2004, 10:29 PM)
[email protected] 3 2004, 08:48 PM
Don't forget how Iraqis treated US soldiers! (http://www.drudgereport.com/AJ.jpg)
Yes! You're right. One dictator justifies another one. The Iraqi people defended against invaders with machineguns! Can you believe it and there was blood. No fake blood like in Rambo but real blood. The sort of blood that FOX doesn't broadcast. Torturing Iraqi's, killing them in the name of freedom is perfectly justifiable now :angry: [/b]
Yeah, bush is a dictator. Friggin idiot. How long was your buddy Sadam in power? How long can Bush be in power?

[lucid]

Originally posted by New [email protected] 3 2004, 10:38 PM
Hey, this is war, what's the big deal?
Your right it is war. Things like this are to be expected. Hopefully everyone that participated in it will be punished. I just wanted to post it before you commies started whining about the torture stories.

[Hitman47]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2004, 08:48 PM
Don't forget how Iraqis treated US soldiers! (http://www.drudgereport.com/AJ.jpg)
If America wants to win the hearts and souls of the arab world. Then the "eye for an eye" doesn't apply in this case. Especially, if a country claims they represent "freedom."

[lucid]

Originally posted by Hitman47+May 3 2004, 10:56 PM--> (Hitman47 @ May 3 2004, 10:56 PM)
[email protected] 3 2004, 08:48 PM
Don't forget how Iraqis treated US soldiers! (http://www.drudgereport.com/AJ.jpg)
If America wants to win the hearts and souls of the arab world. Then the "eye for an eye" doesn't apply in this case. Especially, if a country claims they represent "freedom." [/b]
I agree with you. I hope they find the people that did this and punish them. It just pisses me off that more is being said about this in the US media than was said when they burned out soldiers bodies.

[New Tolerance]

Still, we have to acknowledge that war seems to be far less brutal than it was just a few decades ago. (unless, it's because this is really just a small conflict, and it only seems big because of the excessive media coverage) I heard that during Korea, they used to cover the captured coalition soldiers in blood and leave them tied up in the forest for thousands of insects to eat them alive.

[Invader Zim]

I fail to see your logic, considering this post: -

I agree with you. I hope they find the people that did this and punish them. It just pisses me off that more is being said about this in the US media than was said when they burned out soldiers bodies.

Quite a contradiction to Don't forget how Iraqis treated US soldiers! .

After waying up all the possible reasons for this post, only one remains substanciated by this post: -

I just wanted to post it before you commies started whining about the torture stories.

So in short you are simply being a trol.

[Hitman47]

What can ya do its "Lucid." :D :rolleyes:

[lucid]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2004, 11:11 PM
I fail to see your logic, considering this post: -

I agree with you. I hope they find the people that did this and punish them. It just pisses me off that more is being said about this in the US media than was said when they burned out soldiers bodies.

Quite a contradiction to Don't forget how Iraqis treated US soldiers! .

After waying up all the possible reasons for this post, only one remains substanciated by this post: -

I just wanted to post it before you commies started whining about the torture stories.

So in short you are simply being a trol.
When you finish blowing me and get back to your computer I would appreciate it if you show me how "Don't forget how they treated US soldiers." conveys that I think the people that are torturing Iraqis are justified.

[lucid]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2004, 11:14 PM
What can ya do its "Lucid." :D :rolleyes:
Enigma has finished his duties. It's your turn now.

[Cobra]

Eye for an eye!

Good Idea comrade lucid. I have a few ideas:

-Make the Northern and Southern third of the United States into no fly zones. Any U.S. aircrafts found flying in these zones will be shot down

-Impose a strict trade embargo on the U.S.

-Make D.C. into a military base for Iraqi soldiers

-Bomb all the Major cities in the U.S.

-Institute a puppet government in the U.S., ran by an Iraqi Dictator


Long Live The Code of Hammurabi!

Edit: or just the eye for an eye part of it. The rest of it is crap.

[Raisa]

Originally posted by lucid+May 3 2004, 10:44 PM--> (lucid @ May 3 2004, 10:44 PM)
New [email protected] 3 2004, 10:38 PM
Hey, this is war, what's the big deal?
Your right it is war. Things like this are to be expected. Hopefully everyone that participated in it will be punished. I just wanted to post it before you commies started whining about the torture stories. [/b]
Dont belittle our cries of outrage to whines....its not my fault you cant hear with all that money in your ears.

[lucid]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2004, 11:51 PM

Eye for an eye!

Good Idea comrade lucid. I have a few ideas:

-Make the Northern and Southern third of the United States into no fly zones. Any U.S. aircrafts found flying in these zones will be shot down

-Impose a strict trade embargo on the U.S.

-Make D.C. into a military base for Iraqi soldiers

-Bomb all the Major cities in the U.S.

-Institute a puppet government in the U.S., ran by an Iraqi Dictator


Long Live The Code of Hammurabi!

Edit: or just the eye for an eye part of it. The rest of it is crap.
Yeah your right. It's just the same.

stoopid

[dark fairy]

Originally posted by New [email protected] 3 2004, 10:38 PM
Hey, this is war, what's the big deal?
exactly... WAR-people die in wars so yeah just let them get down fuck at first i was all fucken thoughtful about it and goddamn it then i said to hell with that ... i feel for the dead people but that "that's what it's all about" :unsure: :(

[revolutionindia]

An eye for an eye leads to a blind world.

[Professor Moneybags]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2004, 10:44 PM
Your right it is war. Things like this are to be expected. Hopefully everyone that participated in it will be punished. I just wanted to post it before you commies started whining about the torture stories.
What I founf most fascinating was the deafening silence when Iraqis were burning US soldiers to death and then dragging them through the streets behind a car. Moral relativism at it's worst. These are the sort of people who would side with Hitler.

[Professor Moneybags]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2004, 06:27 AM
An eye for an eye leads to a blind world.
Dead men don't shoot back.

[Intifada]

What I founf most fascinating was the deafening silence when Iraqis were burning US soldiers to death and then dragging them through the streets behind a car.

maybe you didn't hear it, i heard it day in day out.

the fact is coalition soldiers have been torturing and in the end killing iraqi prisoners for much longer than people think. people have only started to notice because someone had the balls to reveal the shit going on.

[Sabocat]

What I founf most fascinating was the deafening silence when Iraqis were burning US soldiers to death and then dragging them through the streets behind a car.

They weren't U.S. soldiers, they were private corporate contractor mercenaries, and they got what they deserved.

[Kurai Tsuki]

Those bad Iraqis, mistreating the fanatics who invaded them.

[cubist]

awww poor persecuted LUCID yes an eye for an eye

that means america still has another 2 million civillians to be killed through embargos and unneccasary carpet bombings of citys

[lucid]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2004, 02:28 PM
awww poor persecuted LUCID yes an eye for an eye

that means america still has another 2 million civillians to be killed through embargos and unneccasary carpet bombings of citys
Wonder how many people England has unjustly killed in the past. I guess we also owe Germany a good bombing to make up for there killing.

Dork.

[cubist]

LUCID,

DORK?

i was merely pointing out that america was owing a few eyes, yes kill the brits germans russians aswell remember your the one who stands by an eye for an eye you fucking prick, i don't asshole

[revolutionindia]

Originally posted by Professor Moneybags+May 4 2004, 01:21 PM--> (Professor Moneybags @ May 4 2004, 01:21 PM)
[email protected] 4 2004, 06:27 AM
An eye for an eye leads to a blind world.
Dead men don't shoot back. [/b]
Dead men leave behind women,children,relatives and friends.

All it take's is one of them to continue this cycle

[lucid]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2004, 02:56 PM
LUCID,

DORK?

i was merely pointing out that america was owing a few eyes, yes kill the brits germans russians aswell remember your the one who stands by an eye for an eye you fucking prick, i don't asshole
:D

Your funny!

[cubist]

and you are a twat, which one better

[Professor Moneybags]

Originally posted by revolutionindia+May 4 2004, 02:59 PM--> (revolutionindia @ May 4 2004, 02:59 PM)
Originally posted by Professor [email protected] 4 2004, 01:21 PM

[email protected] 4 2004, 06:27 AM
An eye for an eye leads to a blind world.
Dead men don't shoot back.
Dead men leave behind women,children,relatives and friends.

All it take's is one of them to continue this cycle [/b]
Not in an age of nuclear buttons it doesn't. Anyway, sod this.

[Professor Moneybags]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2004, 03:40 PM
and you are a twat, which one better
It depends on which side your bread is buttered.

[Xvall]

This, Lucid, is by far one of the most pointless posts you've made. Please stop, or at least acompany your picture link with a sentence detailing some aspect of your argument. No one really knows what to think when you post a picture of this and don't say a damn thing about it.

[Xvall]

Not in an age of nuclear buttons it doesn't. Anyway, sod this.

So what are you saying? That they can't fight back if you murder all of their families, friends, and relatives? Is that what you are advocating to solve the 'eye for an eye' problem?

[BuyOurEverything]

Wonder how many people England has unjustly killed in the past. I guess we also owe Germany a good bombing to make up for there killing.

Dork.

Doesn't that contradict your original intention in making this post?


An eye for an eye leads to a blind world.

That's relying on the assumption that harming a guilty party is the same as harming an innocent one, which it is not. An 'eye for an eye' would blind the world, except for the innocent people... Gandhi was an idiot.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Originally posted by lucid+May 3 2004, 10:43 PM--> (lucid @ May 3 2004, 10:43 PM)
Originally posted by Non-Sectarian Bastard!@May 3 2004, 10:29 PM

[email protected] 3 2004, 08:48 PM
Don't forget how Iraqis treated US soldiers! (http://www.drudgereport.com/AJ.jpg)
Yes! You're right. One dictator justifies another one. The Iraqi people defended against invaders with machineguns! Can you believe it and there was blood. No fake blood like in Rambo but real blood. The sort of blood that FOX doesn't broadcast. Torturing Iraqi's, killing them in the name of freedom is perfectly justifiable now :angry:
Yeah, bush is a dictator. Friggin idiot. How long was your buddy Sadam in power? How long can Bush be in power? [/b]
Saddam isn't my Buddy.

It's The Bushies friggin buddy. Oh oh, forgot the Bush-Saddam link so soon?
Another fact for you arse. Prescot Bush supported the Nazi's, Bush sr. and jr. traded with DA Osama family. Maybe I'm wrong, but it looks like The Bushies, Osama's and Saddam's are buddy's.

PS: Bush wasn't elected. Democratic hai? ;)

[Kurai Tsuki]

I completely agree with the eye for an eye ideology. So, when to the Iraqi's get to start gouging American eyes?

[Akasha]

After reading several forums in this section I have a question for my fellow leftists...why do you even bother responding to Lucid? It's not as if he has an intelligent opposing point of view like some of these other people. He's not well-researched and obviously not educated. All he does is insult and make stupid remarks about ppl blowing him and other 4th grader bullying comments. If everyone ignored him then maybe he'd go away so that we could have intelligent debate.

[Raisa]

Originally posted by Professor Moneybags+May 4 2004, 07:51 AM--> (Professor Moneybags @ May 4 2004, 07:51 AM)
[email protected] 4 2004, 06:27 AM
An eye for an eye leads to a blind world.
Dead men don't shoot back. [/b]
But thier cousins do!

[Professor Moneybags]

Originally posted by Raisa+May 5 2004, 07:04 PM--> (Raisa @ May 5 2004, 07:04 PM)
Originally posted by Professor [email protected] 4 2004, 07:51 AM

[email protected] 4 2004, 06:27 AM
An eye for an eye leads to a blind world.
Dead men don't shoot back.
But thier cousins do! [/b]
I disagree. I mean, take the mass bombing of Nazi Germany. It didn't leave a generation of vengence-driven Hitler youth behind to deal with, did it ?

[Xvall]

Well, arguably, there are still a lot of vengance driven Hither Youth people around today.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Originally posted by Professor Moneybags+May 5 2004, 09:59 PM--> (Professor Moneybags @ May 5 2004, 09:59 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2004, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by Professor [email protected] 4 2004, 07:51 AM

[email protected] 4 2004, 06:27 AM
An eye for an eye leads to a blind world.
Dead men don't shoot back.
But thier cousins do!
I disagree. I mean, take the mass bombing of Nazi Germany. It didn't leave a generation of vengence-driven Hitler youth behind to deal with, did it ? [/b]
Maybe it explains the popularity of the Neo-Nazi movement

[BuyOurEverything]

Quite so. Go to any neo-Nazi site, and you'll see pages and pages of the attrocities committed by the Allies against Germany. Most notably Dresden. It's one of their most powerful recruiting tools.

[revolutionindia]

Originally posted by Professor Moneybags+May 5 2004, 01:24 AM--> (Professor Moneybags @ May 5 2004, 01:24 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2004, 02:59 PM

Originally posted by Professor [email protected] 4 2004, 01:21 PM

[email protected] 4 2004, 06:27 AM
An eye for an eye leads to a blind world.
Dead men don't shoot back.
Dead men leave behind women,children,relatives and friends.

All it take's is one of them to continue this cycle
Not in an age of nuclear buttons it doesn't. Anyway, sod this. [/b]
Thats when people like Che kick in.

They fight for people who have nobody left to fight for them.

the voice of the voiceless

To prevent that you will have to annihilate entire mankind.

considering your past history(hiroshima,nagasaki)

thats a possiblity

[robob8706]

An eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth is a great biblical quote. Although shakespear once said, "anyone can deal out judgement, but to forgive is devine" I dont think that the latter quote applies to either the present state of America and Iraq, but i think that we have stolen our share of eyes, and so has Iraq, now that Iraq is "free" we should get out of there and we both (america and iraq) should forgive each other and be merciful, "divinity resides in compassion"-Me .

[Commie Girl]

FYI:Link (http://www.socialistworker.org)

This should help bolster Lucid's argument of an eye for an eye! :P

War crimes of the U.S. empire

May 14, 2004 | Pages 6 and 7

"PEOPLE IN Iraq must understand...that what took place in that prison does not represent the America that I know." So said George W. Bush in interviews on Arab television last week, in response to the pictures of U.S. soldiers torturing Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison. But America has a long history of torture, violence and bloodshed--committed at home and around the world in the name of U.S. empire.

NICOLE COLSON looks behind the rhetoric about "freedom and democracy"--and uncovers the long record of U.S. military atrocities.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

FROM THE earliest days, the U.S. empire was built on war, genocide and horrific brutality. In the 19th century, in a drive for westward expansion, the U.S. government engaged in the systematic slaughter of Native Americans. "Indian Removal" wiped out the majority of Native Americans.

According to historian Howard Zinn, in 1820, 120,000 Indians lived east of the Mississippi River. By 1844, fewer than 30,000 were left. This genocide is one of the two great crimes at the foundation of American power.

The other was slavery. Some 20 million Africans were kidnapped from their homes to fuel the trade in human beings--sent to the "New World" to be treated like animals.

About one-quarter didn’t make it that far--because conditions during the voyage across the Atlantic Ocean were so barbaric. In the young United States, Black slaves became the engine of the American economy--both North and South.

The U.S. was late among the world’s main powers in building an overseas empire, but it made up for that in violence. In 1898, it provoked a war with Spain--which even then was justified by war supporters with rhetoric about liberating the subjects of Spain’s colonial rule. But the real aim of the U.S. was to become the new colonial boss itself.

In the Philippines, this required a war of conquest that killed as many as 1 million Filipinos. Typical of the U.S. barbarism in the Pacific was the raid on the town of Caloocan, where the entire population of 17,000 was slaughtered. "Our fighting blood was up, and we all wanted to kill ‘niggers,’" one soldier wrote. "This shooting human beings beats rabbit hunting all to pieces."

As the Manila correspondent of the Philadelphia Ledger wrote in 1901, "[O]ur men have been relentless, have killed to exterminate men, women, children, prisoners and captives, active insurgents and suspected people from lads of 10 up, the idea prevailing that the Filipino as such was little better than a dog."

Washington didn’t hesitate to become a colonial occupier in its self-declared "backyard"--which amounted to the Western Hemisphere. During the early 20th century, the U.S. invaded and ruled over Panama, Nicaragua, Haiti, the Dominican Republic and Cuba. Marine Gen. Smedley Butler later described his role this way: "I spent most of my time being a high class muscleman for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism."

The Second World War, we’re told, was the "good war"--a war against fascism for democracy. But there was nothing "good" or "democratic" about the U.S. conquest and occupation of Japan.

Despite the fact that Japan had been ready to surrender, the U.S. government dropped two atom bombs on a Japanese population that was starving--just to just to prove to the world its willingness to use its military might. The atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki killed over 220,000 immediately and 120,000 more from the effects of radiation poisoning.

In the years to come, Japanese civilians living under U.S. occupation were treated to vile racism and degradation. Thirty percent of the Japanese population--approximately 22 million people--were made homeless; 123,510 children were orphaned and homeless; 13 million workers were unemployed; and 10 million lived on the brink of starvation.

According to Japanese historian Takemae Eiji, "U.S. troops initially comported themselves like conquerors, especially in the early weeks and months of the occupation. Misbehavior ranged from blackmarketeering, petty theft, reckless driving and disorderly conduct to vandalism, assault, arson, murder and rape." And American occupation authorities collaborated with the Japanese regime in abusing Japanese women--hiring 70,000 poor women to work as prostitutes to service U.S. troops.

In the years following the Second World War, the U.S. armed and equipped murderous dictatorships around the globe--the military rulers of South Korea, Somoza in Nicaragua, Pinochet in Chile, Mobutu in Zaire, the Shah of Iran and many more. All this was justified in the name of fighting communism--as was the war in Vietnam.

The horrific tactics of the U.S. military were designed to inflict damage on civilians. With carpet bombings, napalm and wholesale massacres, 3 million Vietnamese and other Asians were dead by the end of the war. Then, as now, the horrific revelations about U.S. brutality against civilians led to an increasing number of people questioning the war here at home.

Most infamous is the 1968 My Lai massacre, in which U.S. troops in the Army’s Charlie Company murdered 347 unarmed men, women and children in a four-hour assault. According to Sgt. Kenneth Hodges, "The order we were given was to kill and destroy everything that was in the village. It was clearly explained that there were to be no prisoners...The order that was given was to kill everyone in the village."

It was an order carried out with extreme brutality, as villagers were herded into ditches and machine gunned. One military mother, shocked by the revelation of what had taken place in My Lai, commented that "I gave them a good boy, and they turned him into a murderer."

Less well known--but no less horrific--was the massacres carried out by the elite Army Platoon Tiger Force. Troops not only tortured and executed Vietnamese soldiers who they had taken prisoner, but also routinely went after civilians--in some cases cutting off the ears of corpses. "We killed anything that walked," former Sgt. William Doyle, a platoon team leader, told the Toldeo Blade last year. "It didn’t matter if they were civilians. They shouldn’t have been there."

As Martin Luther King Jr. once said about the Vietnam War, "We were taking the Black young men who had been crippled by our society and sending them 8,000 miles away to guarantee liberties in Southeast Asia which they had not found in southwest Georgia and East Harlem." King’s conclusion was right--and should be remembered today, as the Bush administration tries to claim that the abuses in Iraq are "un-American."

"I could never again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed in the ghettos," King said, "without having first spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today--my own government."

Tortured in the U.S.

YOUNG DETAINEES beaten, humiliated, subjected to electroshock and other forms of torture. That’s what took place in Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. And in police interrogation rooms in Chicago for nearly two decades.

The torture techniques that George Bush claims are un-American were used against dozens of young Black suspects on Chicago’s South Side by cops under the command of Lt. Jon Burge. Leroy Orange, for example, was slapped, electroshocked and suffocated at Area 2 police headquarters for more than 12 hours in January 1984.

Police held a plastic bag over Leroy's head, punching him so he couldn't hold his breath. They shocked Leroy with a black box after placing electrodes on his arms and in his rectum. Then they used his "confession" to throw him onto death row.

The existence of Burge’s torture chambers isn’t a secret. In 1993, the city was embarrassed enough to force Burge into retirement, after a confidential internal report surfaced detailing more than 50 cases of "systematic" torture. Today, investigators put the number of Burge’s victims at over 100.

Yet many of the men tortured by Burge and his cops remain locked away in prison, still waiting for justice. As columnist Carol Marin wrote in the Chicago Tribune, "When it comes to torture, the message seems pretty clear. Take pictures. Otherwise, those who don't want to believe you won't."

The brutality isn’t limited to Chicago, of course. "When I saw Bush's interview on Arab TV stations, I was thinking, had he ever stepped inside a Texas prison when he was governor?" Judy Greene of Justice Strategies, a research and public advocacy group in New York, told Reuters.

If he had stepped inside Texas’ Brazoria County jail in 1996, then-Gov. Bush could have witnessed guards staging a drug raid on inmates that was videotaped for "training purposes." The tape showed prisoners forced to strip and lie on the ground. A police dog attacked several, and guards prodded prisoners with stun guns and forced them to crawl along the ground. During much of the time that Bush was governor, Texas prisons functioned under the terms of a federal consent decree because of crowding and violence by guards.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

It's also interresting to note that the USA is one of the few countries who hasn't signed the anti-torture agreement. Shallow words, shallow politics.

[Commie Girl]

Originally posted by Non-Sectarian Bastard!@May 14 2004, 06:29 PM
It's also interresting to note that the USA is one of the few countries who hasn't signed the anti-torture agreement. Shallow words, shallow politics.
:angry: I found that interesting as well.....

[Gunman]

IMO, the "eye for an eye" philosophy its the most devastating in history!
For example, the "war" between Palestine and Israel, that is being raged almost 30 or more years ago. And this is just to mention an well know example

[mEds]

umm the war has lasted since 1948.