when did capitalism begin?

[gnuneo]

OK, i can see there are some serious marx theorisers around here, so i will post the question - *when* did capitalism begin?

what socio-economic event can we point to in history, and say - "this was the beginning of modern capitalism"?


i have a potential answer, to start things off:

Capitalism began with the ending of slavery in the West, as from that point people were no longer Capital in themselves, but owned their own Capital, which they could then sell to others as labour, or be self employed, recieving the benefits of their own labour.



there is more to this question, but i want some replies, serious, thought provoking ones hopefully.

[DORRI]

(it's not about modern capitalism)
in my religous thought (i dont know about yours) there is a story which tells:once upon a time and in the beginning days of the history there were two brothers namely abel and cain.god asked them to sacrifice something to his majesty.abel -i think- was farmer and chose his best for god,but cain who was shepherd chose his worst.
you may know what happened at the end,so i wont repeat it,but i wanted to say that the 2nd sin of humankind after eating that apple (as christians believe)was capitalism.

[Faceless]

I would suggest that it was the ending of serfdom(/opening of guilds?), meaning that hoardes of ex-serfs flocked to the cities to create a lumpen-proletariat. This is perhaps the earliest date from which point the capitalist system might be described to have developed. Probably not the best idea. Capitalism didn't just come in to being though. Maybe the invention of the Spinning Jenny? What about "modern capitalism"? Well I expect that was later than the ending of slavery. The breaking up of the British emipre and the last of the collonies in about the mid-20th century (?) In some form or another feudal relics have survived to today though.
BTW, doesn't the trotsky smily look silly
:trotski:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
(small things amuse small minds)

[monkeydust]

gnuneo

It's a tough question.

According to Marx:

"The discovery of America, the rounding of the Cape opened up fresh ground for the rising bourgeoisie. The East-Indian and Chinese markets, the colonization of America, trade with the colonies, the increase in the means of exchange and in commodities generally, gave to commerce, to navigation, to industry, an impulse never before known, and thereby, to the revolutionary element in the tottering feudal society, a rapid development."

"The guild masters were pushed to one side by the manufacturing middle class; division of labour between the different corporate guilds vanished in the face of diviosion of labour in each single workshop"

"Large-scale industry has established the world market, for which the discovery of America has paved the way. This market has given an immense development to commerce, to navigation, to communication by land."

"We see, therefore, how the modern bourgeoisie is itself the product of a long course of development, of a series ofrevolutions in the modes of production and of exchange"

"Each step in the development of the bourgeoisie was accompanied by a corresponding political advance."


These lines give some insight into how the bourgeoisie (capitalist class) managed to establish itself, though alone they don't fully answer the question.

You question's a tricky one, for there is no single event in which the capitalist class began to rule on a global scale. Moreover, there is no set date as to when the bourgeoisie established capitalism.

In some ways capitalism has been around far longer than traditionally thought. Even as long ago as Roman times, there were certain members of the eques class who behaved rather like a modern capitalist, many of the basic elements of capitalism have been established for a long time. The date at which the bourgeosie established itself as the ruling class is, however, comparatively recent.

Another point to bear in mind is that the transistion from feudalism was, in some ways, quite seamless. Many aspects of feudalism continued to exist in what would be considered the 'capitalist' epoch. Similarly, elements of capitlaism were quite well established during the Feudal era.

There are however some events which are quite easy to 'pin down' as times when the bourgeoisie established itself as the ruling class, and capitalism began to prosper in full. A case in point is the French revolution. Perhaps also, the earlier English civil war can be seen as a similar event, though not as dramatic. Many parliamentarians sympathised with the interests of the bourgeoisie, if they were not part of it themselves. The increase of parliaments power, could thus be interpreted as an increase in the bourgeoisie's power.

It's also worth bearing in mind the fact that not all areas became capitalist at the same time, on the contrary, a few areas of the world still (to an extent) pursue older economic policies.

As I say, there's no definite date for the establishment of capitalism. I'm gonna go out on a limb here. As a rough date; I'll say.....1795. Though, that's more or less an educated guess.

I hope that helped a little, maybe Redstar or someone could answer the question better than I.

[truthaddict11]

Capitalism began with the ending of slavery in the West, as from that point people were no longer Capital in themselves, but owned their own Capital, which they could then sell to others as labour, or be self employed, recieving the benefits of their own labour

The Communist Manifesto was published 12 years before the begining of the Civil War so thats a no. And Adam Smith published Wealth Of Nations , considered the "father of capitalism", in 1776

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

For a Marxist perspective just read the German Ideology.

[ComradeRed]

Read the book the history of capitalism (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1583670416/103-8813389-5547860?v=glance)

[redstar2000]

I suppose if you want to get really technical, capitalism began when some guy hired some other guy to make a product that was then sold in the marketplace for a profit.

It probably gets "big enough to notice" around 1300CE, in Italy and Flanders (modern Belgium).

The era of modern capitalism, when capitalists themselves stepped forward to formally assume state power in their own name, is actually quite recent...in the 19th and 20th centuries. In Russia, it didn't happen until 1992! In China, the process is still unfolding -- the proposal to make "Communist" party membership open to "businessmen" is a sign of what's to come.

If you look at the "big picture", the working class has hardly begun the struggle for emancipation.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Osman Ghazi]

Yes, Italian navigational technology allowed for the first large markets around 1300. But also, in the Rhine/Maas river system and the surrounding areas the wide variety of rivers made for easy acces to markets. In England, I think that by 1650 or so, no town was more than 40 miles from a river/canal which could then take it to the ocean and the port markets. The expansion of goods that could get to certain markets was one of the major factors in the rise of capitalism.

[Wiesty]

i belive communism started to come into major play in the 40-50's

[percept¡on]

I don't think we should confuse wage labor or exploitation with capitalism. Capitalism is a very specific beast of which wage labor and exploitation are characteristics. But Feudalism and Mercantilism both preceeded capitalism. Capitalism originated in Great Britain, and then spread like a virus to infect first the West and then the rest of the world. I think the point of departure that can be used is the Enclosure Acts, which created a huge class of landless peasants who flocked to the cities to work in the newly developing industries.

[gnuneo]

OK, very interesting thoughts there.


however i differ from marx in that i do not necessarily link te term Capitalism with the differentiation of workers and employers.

capital can also be owned by workers... cooperatives are perfect examples of companies where workers are also owners, and are also perfect capitalism models.

the term capitalism has been badly misunderstood, IMHO.


what we have in the west in general, is actually a feudal type of capitalism, where we have a King, or owner, and a bunch of Barons, managers, who direct the country, company, according to his will.


its a great great shame thtat marx was indoctrnated in the victorian era, and being german was schooled in german romanticism, with the inevitable social darwinism combined with the dialecticicism that is so integral to marx's theories.

and, needless to say, brought as much misery to millions of E. europeans as those theories brought the poor of victorian england.


anyway, back to the main point - if the ending of the slave trade is taken as the beginning of capitalism (or one of the major events in the period), for the reasons already given in the first post, then capital becomes more than merely a term referring to Finance Capital (which is the general usage), it also applies to Labour capital - and allows them to be combined to create the conditions for the evolution of 'capitalism' to 'socialism'.

thoughts?