Allies VS Axis

[Wiesty]

In the past while ive been pissed about how people are saying the great desctruction the nazis did. Im not a nazi but lets take a look

Nazis killed 6 million jews and lots of cities

Aliies: Launched 2 Atomic bombs, bombed all of japan, Stalin caused Genoiced and others etc.

So in the end weve caused more destruction then the Axis powers

Now everyone is saying to me that they started ww2. But we just added more carnage to it

[Saint-Just]

Stalin did not cause any kind of genocide. Do you know what genocide is? Do you know what murder is?

We caused many deaths. But death was necessary, we did this to defeat the Nazis.
My good comrade Ixabert said 'Death is a necessity, and... goodness is
determined only by necessity.'

[MiniOswald]

the russians caused so much carnage out of blind revenge. they'd seen millions of they're people die and when it got to stalingrad (now volgograd) and moscow they just saw red, no pun intended. When they stared the push back all they wanted to do was to cause as much pain to the nazis as possible, the russian pilots who had seen junkas hitting villages were eager to hit berlin, civilian or not. the most notable signs of this anger is probably the battle of Kursk, largest armoured engagement ever, both sides simply slammed around 2500 tanks on each side into each other on the kursk salient.
As for the allies america, tried to hit only military targets, oil factories, ball bearing factories and teh sort and it was them who put the most money into rebuilding germany after the war.
Britain also seeked revenge on one level it wanted teh germans to feel the sort of thing they did to coventry, so they did the 1000 bombers raids, decimated medieval cities, we did in fact use incendiary bombs knowing that the firestorm would tear down the wooden buildings with ease, the most famous of these british raids was infact dresden, the british were determined to flatten it civilians or not.

So its all down to blind revenge in europes case, as for hiroshima and nagasaki (sp?) the americans were looking to quickly end teh war in the east and show the world, especially stalin that they made the first A-bomb.

[Wiesty]

you dont end a war by launching an atomic bomb on hundreds of innocent people
thats just stupidity at its worst

[mysticofthewest]

hey wiesty no one said those guys were smart The war was winding down and even before the the cold war was allready flaring up

[MiniOswald]

indeed it is stupidity, the atomic bombs werent neccesary, as russia had just attacked japan from the other side and decimated the only large army left, 80,000 strong i beleive it was. most japanese forces would have surrendered to advancing russian and american forces. However americans will be americans

[Indysocialist]

It was more or less dick waving by the American forces, I think Truman wanted to show the Soviets "who's the boss" :rolleyes: . Another theory is that he wanted to end the war as quickly as possible so that the Soviets wouldn't get a stake in Asia.

But yeah, I think if we would've given the Axis enough time they would've made the Allies look like choir boys in the destruction department.

[Hate Is Art]

oh easily, 6 million jews plus 6 million other people, any guilt from soldiers deaths lies soly on their soldiers and any death that resulted from the war is their fault as well.

America took some libertys though (atom bomb mainly) and so did the Soviets with the red armys behaviour in Berlin.

[Trissy]

I agree the British bombing of Dresden under the command of Bomber Harris was one of the most awful things this country did during the Second World War but I don't think that revenge was the sole inspiration for such destruction. It has been argued that if the Allies had carried out four or five bombing raids of that strength then the Germans would have been so demoralised that they could have contemplated surrendering (something I find ironic considering this was Hitler's reasons for the Blitz). Anyway that's mere speculation since we didn't have enough bombs to do so anyway...

As for the dropping of the Atomic bomb, well that's another event that sickens me due to the needless scale of suffering. However it does raise an interesting question of what would the world be like if they hadn't dropped it? If the American's hadn't dropped it then then we can be assured they would have used it sooner or later...maybe it would have made the Cold War a lot hotter :unsure:

[BuyOurEverything]

If the American's hadn't dropped it then then we can be assured they would have used it sooner or later...maybe it would have made the Cold War a lot hotter

Interesting, but I'd have to disagree. The reason the US never nuked the Soviets was not that they had any moral qualms about it. It was because of Mutually Assured Destruction. I don't think this situation would have been any different.

[apathy maybe]

The reasons the yanks dropped the two atomic bombs are
1) To make Japan surrender faster so that the USSR wouldn't be able to occupy it ('cause the USSR had just smashed the Japanese army).
2) The second bomb was dropped to test that theory. The two bombs were made of different things (plutonium and uranium).

[BuyOurEverything]

3) To show it off to the Soviet Union

[apathy maybe]

Yes all right, that did come into it. But I think it does come a third to those other two. But Truman was a bastard and I maybe wrong, it could have been that that was the first reason.

[Hiero]

Originally posted by Chairman [email protected] 1 2004, 10:14 PM
Stalin did not cause any kind of genocide. Do you know what genocide is? Do you know what murder is?

We caused many deaths. But death was necessary, we did this to defeat the Nazis.
My good comrade Ixabert said 'Death is a necessity, and... goodness is
determined only by necessity.'
I think that he is talkking about the starving of peasants.

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by comrade neonate+May 3 2004, 07:33 AM--> (comrade neonate @ May 3 2004, 07:33 AM)
Chairman [email protected] 1 2004, 10:14 PM
Stalin did not cause any kind of genocide. Do you know what genocide is? Do you know what murder is?

We caused many deaths. But death was necessary, we did this to defeat the Nazis.
My good comrade Ixabert said 'Death is a necessity, and... goodness is
determined only by necessity.'
I think that he is talkking about the starving of peasants. [/b]
I understand, I think you are right that is what he is talking about. But, as you know, the Kulaks were not a race but a class.

[MiniOswald]

yer Trissy i beleive bomber harris said something like 'they have sown the wind.... now let them reap the whirlwind' when commenting on his plans for the historic cities.

[Wiesty]

scroll up and read the crimes of stalin

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2004, 01:53 PM
scroll up and read the crimes of stalin
Fair point, I understand what genocide you are talking about now.