US Forces Pounding Falluja

[Capitalist Imperial]

US forces tried to talk it out

They benevolently maintained the cease-fire (though the dissidents never really did.)

They allowed the women/children out.

They continued to give the insurgents an opportunity to capitulate, day after day.

Yet, the haters of freedom continue to attempt to prolong the inevitable ushering in of democracy and a pro-US government in Iraq.

Well, we tried, but the time for talk is over. It is time for action. These insurgents will now be met with the full force of the US military. All extremist rebel criminals who refuse to lay down their arms will be terminated with extreme prejudice. Nothing less than full eradication of the anti-democracy rebellion will be acceptable.

Democracy in Iraq friendly to US interests is imminent.

[DaCuBaN]

Yet, the haters of freedom continue to attempt to prolong the inevitable ushering in of democracy and a pro-US government in Iraq.


I'm all in favour of the democracy, though how a republic intends to install a democracy I'll never know :D It's the pro-american stance I dislike - the new government should be pro-Iraqi and nothing else. It would certainly help the credibility of the US.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 11:02 PM

Yet, the haters of freedom continue to attempt to prolong the inevitable ushering in of democracy and a pro-US government in Iraq.


I'm all in favour of the democracy, though how a republic intends to install a democracy I'll never know :D It's the pro-american stance I dislike - the new government should be pro-Iraqi and nothing else. It would certainly help the credibility of the US.
WE NEED NO CREDIBILITY. ENHANCING OUR SPHERE OF INFLUENCE, ESPECIALLY IN THE MIDDLE EAST, IS MORE IMPORTANT THAT OTHER NATIONS' ILL-INFORMED PERCEPTIONS OF OUR CREDIBILITY.

oops, sorry about the caps

[DaCuBaN]

WE NEED NO CREDIBILITY. ENHANCING OUR SPHERE OF INFLUENCE, ESPECIALLY IN THE MIDDLE EAST, IS MORE IMPORTANT THAT OTHER NATIONS' ILL-INFORMED PERCEPTIONS OF OUR CREDIBILITY.

oops, sorry about the caps

had to leave that last line in else I'd really be taking you out of context.

If the US were to install true democracy in Iraq they WOULD reap the benefits of it... after all if this war does finally turn out for the best, how could the people realistically complain about being liberated? they certainly weren't free under the previous US installed regime, so hopefully this time they will get it right.

I'm not trying to argue over the credibility of the US - you believe it needs none (and I assume has some) whereas I believe it needs but does not have - that could lead us round in circles all day :rolleyes: Surely though, if you believe that the lack of credibility given to the US is ill informed then you should be doing everything you can to educate? Installing a pro-US government would certainly hurt their reputation.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 11:02 PM
.

I'm all in favour of the democracy, though how a republic intends to install a democracy I'll never know :D

Missed this part the 1st time...

Democratic Republic, sir. ;)

[DaCuBaN]

In the dictionary definition, democracy "is government by the people in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them under a free electoral system." In the phrase of Abraham Lincoln, democracy is a government "of the people, by the people, and for the people."


{The Republic} Is defined by a government where authority is derived through election by the people of public officials best fitted to represent them.

I see a difference, and I see the USA being the latter. I also see Abe turning in his grave, but hey ;)

[DaCuBaN]

this (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=24368) might be of some interest to you

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 11:54 PM

In the dictionary definition, democracy "is government by the people in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them under a free electoral system." In the phrase of Abraham Lincoln, democracy is a government "of the people, by the people, and for the people."


{The Republic} Is defined by a government where authority is derived through election by the people of public officials best fitted to represent them.

I see a difference, and I see the USA being the latter. I also see Abe turning in his grave, but hey ;)
It is a mix of both, we have representative government, which is where "Republic" comes from.

We also have direct votes on many propositions, measures, and referendums at the state and local levels (such as the "medicinal marijuana" issue in California - that was decided by a direct vote), which is a practice of true democracy.

Thus, we are a "republic" (which is the noun and main idea in "democratic republic"), with some constituents of pure democracy (which is why "democratic" is the descriptie adjective)

But you are correct. We are and always have been, fundamentally, a Repulic, albeit a democratic one.

[DaCuBaN]

We also have direct votes on many propositions, measures, and referendums at the state and local levels (such as the "medicinal marijuana" issue in California - that was decided by a direct vote), which is a practice of true democracy

Slightly off topic - what happened with that referendum?

[Osman Ghazi]

Ah, irony. If the fight was for communism, and there were some who rebelled against the newly established system, crushing them would be wrong because they have the right to disagree. If they are facing the U$ however, and if the fight is for democracy, it is somehow proper to kill the people you are trying to liberate. I'll never understand the capitalist mind.

[GUTB]

So far the US has yet to play any signficant progressive role in Iraq. Instead of re-constructing Iraq industry, they've done nothing but turned it into mega-corporate robber's playground. If this keeps up, Iraq will eventually transform into one huge mass of lumpens like residents of Gaza and the West Bank.

[mysticofthewest]

GUTb right on man its only about how much the us can get out of Iraq if the rebels get there way Then Iraq will be exploited by an Iraqi
if the us wins the us exploits Iraq under the supervision of an Irai so it really makes no difference

[Commie Girl]

http://www.empirenotes.org/

April 25, 7:10 am EST. Amsterdam, the Netherlands -- Things are looking very bad for Fallujah. The various mujaheddin factions, who may have agreed to a truce just so that the siege of Fallujah would be partially lifted and the road to the hospital opened, obviously had no intention of handing over all their weapons (or even just the "heavy" ones). That demand by the Americans was basically the demand to win the battle without fighting it.

Since Fallujah will not capitulate, apparently, Bush and his advisers decide this weekend whether to bombard the hell out of it. Here's a fascinating quote from the Times article:
"It's clear you can't leave a few thousand insurgents there to terrorize the city and shoot at us," one senior official involved in the discussions said in an interview on Saturday. "The question now is whether there is a way to go in with the most minimal casualties possible."
It should be clear to anyone with basic knowledge of the situation and with no ideological axe to grind who the few thousand people terrorizing the city are. They're the ones that have assaulted it with tanks, AC-130 gunships, F-16's, and snipers, not the ones who have been defending it from assault.

Based on everything that's happened so far, the mindless desire for revenge and for showing military supremacy will triumph and the attack will be launched. As Bush said, "America will never be run out of Iraq by a bunch of thugs and killers." This is the kind of nonsense every colonial army has put out against its opponents -- as Henry Liu points out in the Asia Times, the British general at the battle of Bunker Hill, Thomas Cage, called the American rebels thugs and tax evaders.

Sheikh Ahmed Abdel Ghafur Samarra'i, during Friday prayers at a prominent Baghdad mosque, said, "We will not allow the shedding of Iraqi blood. If you strike again, the whole of Iraq, from north to south, from east to west, will become Fallujah," a sentiment virtually every Iraqi I've spoken with would agree with.

A bad moon is rising. Since Bush is so fond of the Bible (it was apparently his favorite book as a child), he should read that part about sowing the wind.

It would be nice if this time there were protests before the assault instead of after.



:unsure: This is the laugh of the day.....yet also very sad

"We don't seek empires. We're not imperialistic. We never have been. I can't imagine why you'd even ask the question." Donald Rumsfeld, questioned by an al-Jazeera correspondent, April 29, 2003.

[DSCH]

God bless America. Fallujah delenda est.

Modern Crusader (http://moderncrusader.blogspot.com/)

[DaCuBaN]

Dedicated to the defense of America and the Holy Land from the Satanic Saracen horde of hateful Arab Muslim Sand Nazi terrorist infidels. Our long term goals are the sacking of Mecca, the defiling and final destruction of the Kaaba idol, and the creation of a Zionist State with Mecca as it's capital. For it is written, "But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire."

I wouldn't miss it for the world :rolleyes:

[revolutionindia]

Osama and gang are going to whip america's ass
Iraq will be worse than vietnam.

When america collapses
Capitalist imperial will commit suicide when this happens

I will ask god to forgive him for

capitalist imperial knows not what he says or does

[Commie Girl]

:( April 28 (commentary) - The 26 April explosions at a chemical warehouse being raided by the U.S. military constitute yet another example of heavy-handed tactics gone awry. US officials say they had reason to believe the facility was being used to manufacture chemical munitions. Rather than use other means to investigate, such as better human intelligence or a more discreet method of entry, the military used its preferred reconnaissance
approach: a cadre of soldiers, armored vehicles and a blowtorch. Troops stormed their way into the facility, with horrendous consequences.

The US military reports two soldiers died and fifteen were wounded in two massive explosions that immediately followed troops’ attempt to access the building.

When I arrived at the scene, a witness told me, “People were jumping and dancing on the burning Humvees because of the hatred towards the Americans due to their dealings with Iraqis. People were cheering for Falluja.” Images of the aftermath were broadcast and printed throughout the Western media.

In order for Western observers to understand why the deaths of people presented to Western audiences as liberators would be cheered by those supposedly being liberated, the media would need to present the hundreds of raids that result in Iraqi suffereng. Monday’s perfume factory calamity was certainly not the first time a military raid in occupied Iraq has backfired on the soldiers carrying it out.

But botched raids typically go unnoticed by the international media because officials are loathe to point them out and reporters rarely follow the numerous leads that circulate around Baghdad and beyond.

Earlier in this month, for instance, the Army conducted an early morning raid searching for weapons in the Abu Hanifa Mosque in a Sunni neighborhood of Baghdad. The fruits for crashing through two gates with tanks, for driving a Humvee over and destroying three tons of food-aid stockpiled for Falluja, for holding 210 people inside the mosque at gunpoint, for smashing through classroom doors and for shooting up walls and ceilings? Not one bullet. The raid wasn't entirely without results for occupation forces, though. The U.S. military gained even more resentment, distrust and rage from the Iraqis in Baghdad.

Troops conduct home raids throughout Iraq on a daily basis. At times these do produce weapons, and sometimes even a person engaged in the increasingly popular resistance to the US-UK occupation. However, a great number of them yield nothing but anguish.

In one case I reported on last winter, a late night raid on a house found soldiers breaking the door to the home of two Baghdad University professors, even though they were offered free access. The home was destroyed, furniture broken and torn apart, bags of rice dumped on the kitchen floor, and the husband and son detained.

The next day soldiers revisited the home, I was told, excusing themselves for having had poor information. The husband and son remain in detention, whereabouts unknown to the family.

The raid on 26 April erupted into more than the two explosions reported by eyewitnesses. The warehouse incident is symbolic of so many raids the occupation forces have conducted. One witness told me he saw the warehouse’s owner offer a key to the soldiers before they entered, but they refused it, preferring instead to force their way in.

Stories such as this abound on the Iraqi street. More often than not, they end in dead, beaten or detained Iraqis and personal property stolen by soldiers.

This time, because it ended in American deaths, the raid received at least some mention in the Western press.

When human rights organizations estimate that at least half of the 13,000 detainees in the horrid, overflowing Abu Ghraib prison had no affiliation with the armed resistance prior to being arrested by occupation forces, one can imagine how they, their families and friends now view the Anglo-American occupation of their country.


----------------------------------------------
Dahr Jamail is Baghdad correspondent for The NewStandard. He is an Alaskan devoted to covering the untold stories from occupied Iraq. You can help Dahr continue his crucial work in Iraq by making donations. For more information or to donate to Dahr, visit http://newstandardnews.net/iraqdispatches .

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by Osman [email protected] 29 2004, 12:14 AM
Ah, irony. If the fight was for communism, and there were some who rebelled against the newly established system, crushing them would be wrong because they have the right to disagree. If they are facing the U$ however, and if the fight is for democracy, it is somehow proper to kill the people you are trying to liberate. I'll never understand the capitalist mind.
You make no sense, Ozman, as this is not what is happening. These people are not fighting for democracy, they are fighting to prevent it. They are islamic fundamentalists that want to oppress everne in iraq, taliban style. They are a minority in Iraq.

Get your facts right.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2004, 12:09 AM

We also have direct votes on many propositions, measures, and referendums at the state and local levels (such as the "medicinal marijuana" issue in California - that was decided by a direct vote), which is a practice of true democracy

Slightly off topic - what happened with that referendum?
It passed, but it's been bogged down ever since in the courts. Officially, it is OK to have pot with a prescription in California, and medical marijuana clubs exist, but but doctors are not allowed to prescribe it. Its all f***ed up right now, and it is still being worked out as we speak.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2004, 02:47 PM
When america collapses
Capitalist imperial will commit suicide when this happens

I will ask god to forgive him for

capitalist imperial knows not what he says or does

Osama and gang are going to whip america's ass
Iraq will be worse than vietnam.

You're just an idiot. You may want to get out from under the rock you've been hiding under.

Iraq can't be worse than vietnam. The fall of bagdad has already occured. We are basically doing clean up.

Osama and Iraq are not really correlated that strongly at all. You sound pretty ignorant to me.

Go ahead and wait for "America to Collapse". You may want to pack a lunch, though.


I will ask god to forgive him for capitalist imperial knows not what he says or does

Don't bother. Don't impose your stupid, mythological, insipid beliefs on me. I don't need deities or fictional characters to provide me with security or meaning in life. Waste your time praying to your myth by yourself.

You people think that many Americans are brainwashed? The true brainwashed are those who believe in any of mankind's illogical, mythological, faith-based spiritual belief systems.

I hate religion.

[Louis Pio]

You people think that many Americans are brainwashed? The true brainwashed are those who believe in any of mankind's illogical, mythological, faith-based spiritual belief systems.


Like capitalism? Freemarket? USA is only supporting democracy? Are those the myths you are talking about?

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2004, 03:26 PM

You people think that many Americans are brainwashed? The true brainwashed are those who believe in any of mankind's illogical, mythological, faith-based spiritual belief systems.


Like capitalism? Freemarket? USA is only supporting democracy? Are those the myths you are talking about?
How stupid can you be to not even get the subject of the conversation right?

I was talking about religion, not politics or economics.

[Louis Pio]

Ahh that I can see now. I just never bother to read most of your posts. They always center around the same issues.

[lucid]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2004, 03:33 PM
Ahh that I can see now. I just never bother to read most of your posts. They always center around the same issues.
And yours don't?

Might as well save "Bush is Evil, Capitalism must die!" to your clipboard.

[Intifada]

what we are seeing in fallujah at the moment is a criminal act. america will hopefully pay.

you never learn, do you?

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2004, 04:35 PM
what we are seeing in fallujah at the moment is a criminal act. america will hopefully pay.

you never learn, do you?
It is you who never learn, sir.

America has nothing to pay for, the insurgents do. How is the eradication of anti-freedom fundamentalist dissidents criminal?

Americn sovereignty must me maintained.

[Misodoctakleidist]

Why did anyone reply this thread?

[Intifada]

It is you who never learn, sir.


no. you are breeding more arab terrorists. they will attempt to do exactly what happened on 9/11 2001.


How is the eradication of anti-freedom fundamentalist dissidents criminal?



these resistance fighters, are fighting for freedom, not against it.

america is just indiscriminately bombing a city.


Americn sovereignty must me maintained.

american imperialism must be destroyed.

[lucid]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2004, 04:35 PM
what we are seeing in fallujah at the moment is a criminal act. america will hopefully pay.

you never learn, do you?
We have learned what it takes to keep you under our shoe.

[Osman Ghazi]

You make no sense, Ozman, as this is not what is happening. These people are not fighting for democracy, they are fighting to prevent it. They are islamic fundamentalists that want to oppress everne in iraq, taliban style. They are a minority in Iraq.


Umm... demo = people + cracy = to rule. That would seem to indicate that the people rule in a democracy. The insurgents in Falluja are not people? They aren't Iraqi citizens? They have no say? The Americans want to set up a puppet state. You said so yourself. They are fighting against the puppets who want to rule their country for the Americans.

Okay, a question. If America was invaded by China, say, and the only resistance force against China's puppet regime were people who wanted to create a taliban-style government except Christian, would you join them?


I hate religion.

Wow, we agree again and on a serious issue too.


Iraq can't be worse than vietnam. The fall of bagdad has already occured. We are basically doing clean up.


How can you 'clean up' something that wasn't even there in the first place? America must have made quite a terrible spill.

[DaCuBaN]

Why did anyone reply this thread?

Because in my short time here I've found Capitalist Imperial to be a (generally) worthy debater. Unlike most on the OI board he tries to prove you wrong rather than shoot you down.


America has nothing to pay for, the insurgents do. How is the eradication of anti-freedom fundamentalist dissidents criminal?

I refuse to condone the actions of the 'dissidents' (for want of a better word) but the coalition IS an invading army, and these people do simply believe that they are defending their homeland. They, like yourself, are simply being patriotic.


Americn sovereignty must me maintained

I remember when I was young thinking what a wonderful place america is, how much hardware they have, the space program etc etc etc. It wasn't until I got a little older and started reading other than 'recommended' texts that I started to find out about the various crimes the USA have commited. Before you flame me, I don't blame USA for the state of the world - that lands with blighty for letting you win the damn war of independance in the first place :P but I can't understand this attitude.... Do you deny that the USA has done some pretty horrible things?

[Capitalist Imperial]

Do you deny that the USA has done some pretty horrible things?

Actually, no, but these things must be taken in context. Thus, I agree that America does what pretty much every nation does, has done, or tries to do, we are just the best at it right now. Give me any nation, and I can give you a laundry list of atrocities it commits, and a list of good things it has done. All nations are just like people, good in bad in all of us. However, because America is particularly large and succesful, we become an easy target. If anything, i would say that we are on the more humane side of the spectrum.

These nations such as Iraq, afghanistan, and tothers have been in existence long before us, and they were just as territorial and brutal. If they can't take over another nation, they will take over a neigbooring tribe, until they are large enough to take over another city, then another country, etc.

I think a large part of many people's problem with America is that we happen to be a 200 year-old upstart that rose to the top of the heap, while nations trying to garner power for over 1000 years are now in a subjogated position relative to us, and they don't like it.

However, this situation is not the result of other nations being purely benevolent and the US being pure evil, but in fact it is a result of people being people, and the group of people known as the USA happen to be the best at it right now.


I refuse to condone the actions of the 'dissidents' (for want of a better word) but the coalition IS an invading army, and these people do simply believe that they are defending their homeland. They, like yourself, are simply being patriotic.

I would bet dollars to donuts that many of these rebels were helping tie ropes to the tanks that pulled down Saddams statue 1 year ago during the fall of Bagdad. It is funny that they seemd very happy to see us when we came to Bagdad, waiving US flags and bringing soldiers roses. Howver, after we liberate them and Saddam is gone, we become invaders. All we are trying to do is restore order and install representative government. If they would stop resisting, we could just finish and leave. They are prolonging what is inevitable at this point. The US will not oull its forces out until we are finished restoring order and ifrastructure to Iraq, and that is a good thing.

[DaCuBaN]

Howver, after we liberate them and Saddam is gone, we become invaders. All we are trying to do is restore order and install representative government. If they would stop resisting, we could just finish and leave. They are prolonging what is inevitable at this point. The US will not oull its forces out until we are finished restoring order and ifrastructure to Iraq, and that is a good thing

They simply believe that as you ousted the regime a year ago that it's time to go. It is an unfortunate situation, but as the US has set a time schedule for handing Iraq to the UN I'm personally not too bothered on this one. I find it upsetting that the tactics involved mean the destruction of a city though.


I agree that America does what pretty much every nation does, has done, or tries to do, we are just the best at it right now. Give me any nation, and I can give you a laundry list of atrocities it commits, and a list of good things it has done. All nations are just like people, good in bad in all of us. However, because America is particularly large and succesful, we become an easy target. If anything, i would say that we are on the more humane side of the spectrum.

All apart from the last part of it - I&#39;ve never understood the word &#39;humane&#39; given that people (not just cappies&#33;) tend to be exploitative bastards <_<

Given that many people would consider euthanasia human, whilst others would vehemontly oppose that, it becomes incredibly subjective, hence void in my mind.


the US establishment has always looked out for the best interest of the USA - and this it should be doing. My argument has always been to try and persuade as many people from the other side of the pond of the harm that this &#39;self preservation&#39; causes others. By losing just a little the USA could do wonders for some of the less fortunate people/places in the world. I&#39;m not some raving lefty who wants to see the end of world debt, believes that world hunger could be solved overnight etc etc, but I don&#39;t see any real action towards resolving these problems, and that worries me.

Though not as much as the compensation culture - take the Pan-Am bombing over lockerbie - Syria have had to fork out (i think it was) £15 million (approx &#036;23-24 million) to the berieved. I mean if you are going to try and screw Syria, there&#39;s other things you could get changed rather than just taking away what little money they have.

Again I&#39;ll reiterate: my beef isn&#39;t with the USA, but with Western Culture, and our apathy towards those we harm.

[Osman Ghazi]

I would bet dollars to donuts that many of these rebels were helping tie ropes to the tanks that pulled down Saddams statue 1 year ago during the fall of Bagdad. It is funny that they seemd very happy to see us when we came to Bagdad, waiving US flags and bringing soldiers roses. Howver, after we liberate them and Saddam is gone, we become invaders. All we are trying to do is restore order and install representative government. If they would stop resisting, we could just finish and leave. They are prolonging what is inevitable at this point. The US will not oull its forces out until we are finished restoring order and ifrastructure to Iraq, and that is a good thing.


What?&#33; There were about 100 Iraqis who pulled down that statue. And they lived inBaghdad as opposed to the rebels, who live in Falluja.

Also, the U&#036; just announced that they are pulling out again. The rebels win the battle for another day. at least. I think someone should start arming them. I mean it would good payback for all the times the U&#036; has armed fascist rebels.

[Fidel Castro]

Ahhh, this post reaks of mindless American patriotism, <_<


Yet, the haters of freedom continue to attempt to prolong the inevitable ushering in of democracy and a pro-US government in Iraq.

:lol:, the misguided view of the Empire&#39;s subjects, that somehow they represent freedom and democracy. To crumble the claim that the US are promoters of democracy and freedom all I need to do is this......Guantanamo Bay, Pol Pot, Batista, Pinochet, Granada, Bay of Pigs, Weapons of Mass Deception, the Florida vote scandal, Enron, Saudi Arabia ties, harbouring Nazis, the murder of Che Guevara, Papa Doc Duvalier, Defiance of United Nations resolutions, the Ku Klux Klan, McCarthy, Watergate, Keyoto etc etc etc.


pro-US government in Iraq

:lol:, you are veeerrrryyy sleeeppyy, when I snap my fingers you will love America, you will crave supersize McDonalds meals, you will want a cafe latte from Starbucks, Uncle Sam goooooood Allah baaaaaddd. :lol:


ENHANCING OUR SPHERE OF INFLUENCE, ESPECIALLY IN THE MIDDLE EAST, IS MORE IMPORTANT THAT OTHER NATIONS&#39; ILL-INFORMED PERCEPTIONS OF OUR CREDIBILITY.

Zig-Heil&#33; Zig-Heil&#33; Zig-Heil&#33; :lol: Your sphere of influence? Tell me, in your oppinion, do cruise missiles make a satisfactory influnce on hospitals, schools and residential areas?


The fall of bagdad has already occured. We are basically doing clean up.

I take no satisfaction in having to say that the only cleaning up taking place in Iraq is of what is left of blown-up American youth.


Americn sovereignty must me maintained

There is no threat to American soverignty, your nation sir is a threat to the soverignty of other nations, namely Cuba, which your government sees as a potential whore.

Amerika ist das reich, das reich ist Amerika, heil Uncle Sam&#33;

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by Osman [email protected] 30 2004, 01:19 PM
[
What?&#33; There were about 100 Iraqis who pulled down that statue. And they lived inBaghdad as opposed to the rebels, who live in Falluja.

Also, the U&#036; just announced that they are pulling out again. The rebels win the battle for another day. at least. I think someone should start arming them. I mean it would good payback for all the times the U&#036; has armed fascist rebels.
The rebels didn&#39;t win anything. What objectives have they accomplished? What ground have they taken? None and None, respectively.

The rebels have been taking heavy losses, while the US side has suffered minimal loss. The US is in total contol of the situation, that is obvious to everyone. They are merely pulling out to let Iraqi security forces in, a gesture of restoring Iraqi sovereignty.

US forces are merely trying to resolve this with minimal loss of life. Fallujah is under seige, and the US is calling the shots. They could easily level the place if they wanted too, they are just excercising a little tact and diplomacy, like they have been since the biginning of the seige.

[Osman Ghazi]

The rebels didn&#39;t win anything. What objectives have they accomplished? What ground have they taken? None and None, respectively.


What objectives did the American&#39;s accomplish? What territory did they take? None and None, respectively. I would say that they accomplished the objective of living to another day, which is most of what a rebel can hope for. They may not have taken control of any more territory, but they are still in control of the city and have been for what, two weeks?


The rebels have been taking heavy losses, while the US side has suffered minimal loss.

There are still more than 1000 armed rebels and the U&#036; have already taken 150 casualties this month, a fifth of the entire total.

[JonP]

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/griffy/imperialists.jpeg

[Capitalist Imperial]

I&#39;M TALKING ABOUT fALLUJAH SPECIFICALLY, NOT THE MONTHLY TOTAL LOSS (WHICH IS STILL SAMLL CONSIDERING IT IS A WAR)

(oops, sorry about caps)

Again, the Americas could simply lay seige to the city if they want too. They are allowing the pullback so iraqi security forces can start patrolling the streets and calm down the insurgency peacefully. The insurgents must eventually lay down their arms, and the US will accomplish this on their terms, no one elses. It seems to me that they are being quite benevolent and showing considerable restraint in maintaining the cease-fire and giving the dissidents yet another opportunity to capitulate.

Eventually, though, their patience will run out.

[JonP]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 30 2004, 07:25 PM
I&#39;M TALKING ABOUT fALLUJAH SPECIFICALLY, NOT THE MONTHLY TOTAL LOSS (WHICH IS STILL SAMLL CONSIDERING IT IS A WAR)

(oops, sorry about caps)

Again, the Americas could simply lay seige to the city if they want too. They are allowing the pullback so iraqi security forces can start patrolling the streets and calm down the insurgency peacefully. The insurgents must eventually lay down their arms, and the US will accomplish this on their terms, no one elses. It seems to me that they are being quite benevolent and showing considerable restraint in maintaining the cease-fire and giving the dissidents yet another opportunity to capitulate.

Eventually, though, their patience will run out.
Yes they could lay siege to the city if they wanted to and blow it to bits , just like blair could lauch a nuke into Italy. The keyword being "could"

America wont because it would be A) a politicial disaster, and B) fuel more freedom fighters

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2004, 07:19 PM
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/griffy/imperialists.jpeg
PHOTOSHOP

[JonP]

oh really ? :P