Communism why you think it works

[revolutionary thinker]

Ok I'm new to this forum but I was jsut wondering why some of you people think Communism works. Where have you seen it work? I think its a good idea and all but every time its applied to a country it seems that whoever is at the head of the government forgets about what Communism is really about(equal distribution) and all the power goes to their head and thats why Communism fails. Now personally I think if one person could make Communism work it would Che....your thoughts please

[Essential Insignificance]

Without getting caught up in futile complication…lets get it nice and simple .


Where have you seen it work?

"We" have never seen it "work" or "fail"…which does not imply even in sightliest that it won’t.



I think its a good idea and all but every time its applied to a country it seems that whoever is at the head of the government forgets about what Communism is really about(equal distribution) and all the power goes to their head and thats why Communism fails.

That's where socialism fails…not communism. There are some evident reasons why this happens…which I trust you will find out at your time on Che-lives.


Now personally I think if one person could make Communism work it would Che....your thoughts please

Don’t look at communism in an idealistic sense…it will get you nowhere. Individuals don’t make communism work…society does, or rather, will.

[Maynard]

There is no possible way we can say for certain that it will work but nor has there been any compelling argument that it won't work.


Where have you seen it work?
Some may say the Paris Commune is an example but Communism has not existed within any country , so we haven't seen it work or fail.



but every time its applied to a country it seems that whoever is at the head of the government forgets about what Communism is really about(equal distribution) and all the power goes to their head and thats why Communism fails
Well, that is Socialism being or trying to be applied to a nation, not Communism, it's the transition phase. We have to study the failings of these socialist nations, then try not to repeat the same mistakes, whether it's by scrapping the idea of a vanguard party altogether or by some other means. I think the problem with many of these nations, is the leadership got isolated from the population rather than responding to the will of the people, they tried to direct the will of people. This of course, is just as bad as the current system we are in.


Now personally I think if one person could make Communism work it would Che....your thoughts please No individual alone can make Communism work, we can't wait for one day when a mighty person leads us to salvation, everyone, not any leader but every individual within Communism will make it work.

[revolutionary thinker]

thanks guys

[El Che]

I think its a question of faith in mankind. Either you believe mankind can evolve beyond barbarism or you don't.

[democratic-socialist]

Originally posted by El [email protected] 30 2004, 04:39 PM
I think its a question of faith in mankind. Either you believe mankind can evolve beyond barbarism or you don't.

I think its a question of faith in mankind. Either you believe mankind can evolve beyond barbarism or you don't.

That is exactly the problem.
Most of you people belive that communism or socialism would work. But none of you really can except the truth! people are barbaric and always will be. we are imperfect adn we casue pain. we are greedy, ruthless, scandalous etc. It just human nature. Becasue of these things, a fully communist or socialist society simply cannot exsist. I have my own theoires on how socialism and capitalism can mix and match, taking bits of both to create the most ideal system possible. I am not however going to go into it now though becasue it is 1.00oclock in the morning here in the UK and i need sleep! nightnight!

[robob8706]

I think communism will work because i am a strong meliorist. Although i distrust mankind, i believe that once mankind has had enough capitalist oppression, then people will want a communist society, and if they want to keep it, then they know that every person will have to be a virtuous one. Society isnt about the individual, but without individualistic morale then society would not be able to function in a moral manner. So my vision is an excerise in meliorism. The world is ours for the taking, lets make it a good one.

[Essential Insignificance]

Most of you people belive that communism or socialism would work. But none of you really can except the truth

People are not "barbaric", gluttonous, "greedy" nor "ruthless"…history demonstrates this intermittently…I acknowledge thus.


we are imperfect adn we casue pain. we are greedy, ruthless, scandalous etc

There is no such thing as "perfection", so I have no inclination to "brand" man as being "perfect" because it is just a flight of the imagination…being "perfect" or "imperfect" has absolutely none thing to do with it.


we casue pain

We cause pain because of class society to a degree…a classless society will lessen this exacerbation of social pain.


It just human nature. Becasue of these things, a fully communist or socialist society simply cannot exsist

This is an absurd comment to make, without much reasoning, instead of a few adjectives to describe your take on mankind.



I have my own theoires on how socialism and capitalism can mix and match, taking bits of both to create the most ideal system possible

I suppose your getting at a liberalist society…it's simply is not progressive and it does not destroy the class cleavage.

Another utopian is in the mist.

[democratic-socialist]

Everything you have just stated sums up what you are. You do not see the truth! You cannot except the fact that it is impossible for a utopian system to exsist. Look at the past, it prooves my point exactly. You say, "Well, if it wernt for Stalin the USSR might have been ok", but it was stalin that did this, becasue he is rgeedy, like nearly everyone else in the world. Power corrupts, and you my friend, are another misguided individual. :rolleyes:

[Misodoctakleidist]

Originally posted by democratic-[email protected] 3 2004, 09:32 AM
Everything you have just stated sums up what you are. You do not see the truth! You cannot except the fact that it is impossible for a utopian system to exsist. Look at the past, it prooves my point exactly. You say, "Well, if it wernt for Stalin the USSR might have been ok", but it was stalin that did this, becasue he is rgeedy, like nearly everyone else in the world. Power corrupts, and you my friend, are another misguided individual. :rolleyes:
So please tell us what this "human nature" is, define it.

The USSR was never okay.

[bunk]

I do not think utopia is possible either. I haven't read much theory but why would it be perfect. Admittedly nothing is perfect but i don't see communism as being perfect just the closest thing.

[democratic-socialist]

Originally posted by Misodoctakleidist+May 3 2004, 09:52 AM--> (Misodoctakleidist @ May 3 2004, 09:52 AM)
democratic-[email protected] 3 2004, 09:32 AM
Everything you have just stated sums up what you are. You do not see the truth! You cannot except the fact that it is impossible for a utopian system to exsist. Look at the past, it prooves my point exactly. You say, "Well, if it wernt for Stalin the USSR might have been ok", but it was stalin that did this, becasue he is rgeedy, like nearly everyone else in the world. Power corrupts, and you my friend, are another misguided individual. :rolleyes:
So please tell us what this "human nature" is, define it.

The USSR was never okay.[/b]
Well, I'm no psychologist, but I can tell you that humans have both good and bad. Humans are naturally greedy, cruel, selfish and many more. But humans are also compassionate, loving and occasionally generous, also amougst other things. If humans wernt naturally greedy why is there a capitalist system at all? the world wasn tnaturally capitalist at its begining, it was made capitalist by people who have greed. At the time of the industrial revolution, only few were rich and seen as greedy by the poor, but even normal people who had less money would still had given an arm or a leg to be in a rich persons situation and would have been just as greedy. I am not trying to justify the factory owners of the IR, or the rich in general at all, but what im saying is people instintivly want to have power and money. That is why a society of pure communism/socialism could not work.

[redstar2000]

Sooner or later, all the arguments against communism boil down to "human nature" -- that is, they are ultimately metaphysical arguments.

No one actually knows what "human nature" "is"...or even if there is such a thing at all.

If you were able to "sum up" everything humans have thought and done over the totality of recorded history...what conclusions could you draw with reasonable certainty that applied to all humans? Or even "most" humans?

Take this "power & greed" thing, for example.

Why do people want "power"? The simplest explanation is that the more power that you have, the less you are subjected to the power of others. In a society where no one had the power to "give orders", there would be no rational reason to want "power". Even if you had "it", no one would obey you.

"Greed" has a similar rationale. In a world of economic uncertainty, the more wealth that you accumulate, the safer you are from catastrophe...from finding yourself suddenly without even the most basic necessities required to preserve life and health. Your "greed" must "therefore" be infinite...no amount of wealth is ever "enough".

In a society where humans grow up knowing that they will survive and prosper no matter what, the rationality behind "greed" does not exist.

Of course, I'm speaking of normal, rational people. There may well always be a few unfortunates who suffer from an irrational lust for "power" or "wealth"...who will be treated with the best psychological science that we have available. They certainly won't be permitted to "act out" their fantasies in the real world...though perhaps "virtual worlds" can be created for them wherein they can freely indulge their strange obsessions without hurting anyone else.

Indeed, that may someday be the treatment of choice for all forms of deranged behavior...a "virtual world" where they can act out their fantasies as freely as they wish -- and, who knows, perhaps be gently "conditioned" to the point where they are fit to return to real human society.

But enough of speculation. The main point is that whether or not communism will "work" is simply not known at this time...and probably cannot be known for decades or even centuries to come.

You really ultimately decide, one way or the other, if it's an idea worth trying.

I think it is.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[The Role Of Ideology]

Oh dear all this 'human nature this, human nature that'

I'd like you to tell me where human nature would come into communism at all anyway? The advancement of socailism is completely dependant on the productivity of the means of production. Though I imagine Social conciousness would aid in some ways...

[democratic-socialist]

Originally posted by The Role Of [email protected] 3 2004, 05:44 PM
Oh dear all this 'human nature this, human nature that'

I'd like you to tell me where human nature would come into communism at all anyway? The advancement of socailism is completely dependant on the productivity of the means of production. Though I imagine Social conciousness would aid in some ways...
This is what makes me laugh about many of you. You all try to avoid talking about human nature becasue it is the one flaw that brings about the impossibility of communism. You all say that noone knows what human nature is, and that its brought on by capitalism. You are wrong. A prime example of seeing human nature is when you look at children. Look at young children (in a nonpiedofilic way.) They are selfish and greedy. "I want that toy!" or "Thats mine". A few examples of human nature. They lie, cheat and often do not cooperate with other children. it is only adults who teach them right from wrong that subdues human nature, but neverthe less, it is still there. So dont give me none of that bollox. Heres the truth, whether you can except it or not.

[Pawn Power]

Originally posted by democratic-[email protected] 3 2004, 07:35 PM

I'd like you to tell me where human nature would come into communism at all anyway? The advancement of socailism is completely dependant on the productivity of the means of production. Though I imagine Social conciousness would aid in some ways...
This is what makes me laugh about many of you. You all try to avoid talking about human nature becasue it is the one flaw that brings about the impossibility of communism. You all say that noone knows what human nature is, and that its brought on by capitalism. You are wrong. A prime example of seeing human nature is when you look at children. Look at young children (in a nonpiedofilic way.) They are selfish and greedy. "I want that toy!" or "Thats mine". A few examples of human nature. They lie, cheat and often do not cooperate with other children. it is only adults who teach them right from wrong that subdues human nature, but neverthe less, it is still there. So dont give me none of that bollox. Heres the truth, whether you can except it or not. [/quote]
i dont think i is logical to look at children. Children are undeveloped and immature. As you grow and mature you start to understand what is important and what you really want from life.

[redstar2000]

This is what makes me laugh about many of you. You all try to avoid talking about human nature because it is the one flaw that brings about the impossibility of communism.

I beg your pardon, I did talk about it...and you failed to respond.

Instead, you offer the lame example of (some) small children and how they behave when they don't know any better.

By your logic, we should all still be pissing and shitting in our pants..."it's human nature, isn't it?".

Imagine humans using flush toilets? How "unnatural"! How "utopian"!

It'll "never" work. :lol:

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[democratic-socialist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2004, 08:05 PM
i dont think i is logical to look at children. Children are undeveloped and immature. As you grow and mature you start to understand what is important and what you really want from life.
Children are undeveloped. exactly. and they show greed and selfishness, therefore human nature. as you mature and children are taught what is right and wrong, it is then that people act in a way that is acceptable to society subdueing those feelings. But everyone deep down has those natural feelings.

[Essential Insignificance]

Although a very thorny post to comprehend, I will try my best nonetheless.


You do not see the truth!

What exactly makes your proposition so "divine" and veracities in thought…absolutely nothing.



You cannot except the fact that it is impossible for a utopian system to exsist

I agree…a utopian system is all in the "head" without any kind of substantial reasoning instead of idealist yearnings and desire.



Look at the past, it prooves my point exactly

I agree, kind of…20th communism was not so good, but that’s only a 100 years of Leninist mistakes…the future is ours for the taking.


but it was stalin that did this, becasue he is rgeedy

I would not say that Stalin was "greedy", in the sense that I think you are implying.


Power corrupts, and you my friend, are another misguided individual

Maybe on occasions…but if you keep on telling yourself that you’re bound to believe it unequivocally. Material conditions are a fair indictor why…I suggest you have a look at the Russian revolution and how it was carried out and by whom.