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The Feral Underclass
28th April 2004, 07:15
Following a discussion on Live Chat last night, I felt that I should justify myself, so here goes...

Nihilism rejects opinions because opinions are ideals, collections of theories and what ifs. When reduced opinions can be dismissed as easily as they are defended, because at the very core of an opinion it is simply a choice of an individual to either agree or disagree with a concept which ultimatly has no truth.

Opinions in other words are subjective which brings the question, if something is not a fact, why do we believe it? Someone, such as Marx, can argue that the emancipation of the working class is logical because they create the means of production which they have no control over. He has then taken a very basic concept of human thinking, right and wrong, fair and unfair, and applied it to something in his sphere of existence. In other words, he has taken an objective fact, that workers are unfairly treated and created a subjective opinion about it, that is it unfair.

Why should I care about that subjective opinion anymore than caring about buying some clothes, or getting drunk? The reason is basic. Starvation, unhappiness, drug addiction, exploitation are all objective facts. People go without eating, fact. People have chemical reactions in their brain which create negative effects, fact, people are used to create wealth which ultimatly they never see, fact. Why are these things wrong?

They are wrong because they make me sad. Why, because I would not want to be treated that way. These objective facts create a chemical reaction in my brain that makes me feel emotions which I judge based on whether I would want to feel them. I do not want to be starving, I would hate that, so I equate it to others situations, and that makes me sad. This is unexplainable, or simply as explained as why I would fall in love, or why a sunset makes me nostalgic, or why comedy makes me laugh. It is simply a fact, neither explainable or rejectable.

Emotions are objective. They exist as a physical thing from a reaction in my brain to a consequence of my actions. I am an animal. I am an animal who has a large brain. That large brain is affected by conditions which I had no control over. I was simply born. Created into a world that makes me feel sad. As an animal with a large brain I have the ability to be critical. I have the ability to take objective facts, then make a decision on them, how? How anyone does. By how would it make you feel?

Watching someone starve to death makes me feel sad. It makes me sad because I could not imagine living like that. I realise how terrible that would be for me as an individual. It is no different to anyone else. No one likes to starve, so no one should. I hate being unhappy, why would anyone else like it. No one does. So no one should. I would hate to be used, so why would anyone else. They wouldn't, so they shouldnt be...

I subscribe to opinions, not because of some moral obligation, because I have known, not because of ethics, because they dont exist, but because starvation, suffering, exploitation simply make me sad, and the principle of everyones existence has been, and should always be, to reject that which makes you unhappy.

cubist
28th April 2004, 12:05
Tat i just thought the same thing whilst thinking about your ethics thread, we have human nature that we choose not to ignore its not ethics its natural, we mourn death of loved ones and i believe wen you kill or hurt others malicously we know what its doing and we feel theyre pain but we just ignore it we have been trained to ignore it. We need to train people to think of it.

Like those songs that make us cry when played with pictures of dead children and people in orphanages we needto reconect out brains to our feelings and remove the override, i feel sad for dead children but others don't they feel sad when you talk to them about it but they forget when they walk away.

Pedro Alonso Lopez
27th May 2004, 19:42
Nihilism rejects opinions because opinions are ideals, collections of theories and what ifs. When reduced opinions can be dismissed as easily as they are defended, because at the very core of an opinion it is simply a choice of an individual to either agree or disagree with a concept which ultimatly has no truth.

This is fair but some opinions are more rational than others. An opinion that my hands are white is a better opinion than one held by another that my hands are blue.


Opinions in other words are subjective which brings the question, if something is not a fact, why do we believe it?

How do they become facts? The only way we can interact with the world is through our subjective mind which interpets the world. Even if we all partake it is just multiple subjectivity creating a universla objectivity. I would argue that there is no objectivity. We believe because it seems more rational to believe in something that has better 'objective' basis than not believe.


Someone, such as Marx, can argue that the emancipation of the working class is logical because they create the means of production which they have no control over. He has then taken a very basic concept of human thinking, right and wrong, fair and unfair, and applied it to something in his sphere of existence.

How else could he exist or think? Do you want him to think outside of concepts such as jsutice? Or should he render himself nihlistic and thus take nihlism to its logical conclusion, nothingness.




In other words, he has taken an objective fact, that workers are unfairly treated and created a subjective opinion about it, that is it unfair.

Tell me how are we to operate without opinions? All opinions are subjective and thus that includes our opinions on facts as we cannot get outside our head to objectiviely verify anything. Thus everything is rendered useless.



Why should I care about that subjective opinion anymore than caring about buying some clothes, or getting drunk?

Because it adheres to subjective experience which is what makes you human, you cannot escape your 'feelings' of injustice.


I subscribe to opinions, not because of some moral obligation, because I have known, not because of ethics, because they dont exist, but because starvation, suffering, exploitation simply make me sad, and the principle of everyones existence has been, and should always be, to reject that which makes you unhappy.

Objectivity makes me unhappy, it is impossible to determine from your post what I am to do in this situation, think about it...

The Feral Underclass
27th May 2004, 20:10
Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2004, 09:42 PM
An opinion that my hands are white is a better opinion than one held by another that my hands are blue.
But if your hands are white, then that is a fact. Someone may see them as blue, but that doesnt alter the fact.


How do they become facts?

Through language. We create facts and then define them through language. Your hand is white because we define that shade of color by that word. It is not blue because the shade of color of blue is not white.


We believe because it seems more rational to believe in something that has better 'objective' basis than not believe.

But rejecting hunger is not a question of one rational thought over another. Rejecting hunger is an objective conclusion of a fact.

The objective basis is a fact, that is why it is objective.


How else could he exist or think? Do you want him to think outside of concepts such as jsutice? Or should he render himself nihlistic and thus take nihlism to its logical conclusion, nothingness.

I was just pointing out a fact.


Tell me how are we to operate without opinions?

This thread is entitled "why I subscribe to opinions."


Because it adheres to subjective experience which is what makes you human, you cannot escape your 'feelings' of injustice.

That's exactly my point.


Why should I care about that subjective opinion anymore than caring about buying some clothes, or getting drunk? The reason is basic. Starvation, unhappiness, drug addiction, exploitation are all objective facts. People go without eating, fact. People have chemical reactions in their brain which create negative effects, fact, people are used to create wealth which ultimatly they never see, fact. Why are these things wrong?

They are wrong because they make me sad. Why, because I would not want to be treated that way. These objective facts create a chemical reaction in my brain that makes me feel emotions which I judge based on whether I would want to feel them. I do not want to be starving, I would hate that, so I equate it to others situations, and that makes me sad. This is unexplainable, or simply as explained as why I would fall in love, or why a sunset makes me nostalgic, or why comedy makes me laugh. It is simply a fact, neither explainable or rejectable.


Objectivity makes me unhappy, it is impossible to determine from your post what I am to do in this situation, think about it...

Then reject it. You have the ability to choose.