It's so Ironic

[Dan_Canadian]

So, as I just joined recently, I was enjoying myself reading all of the lovely messages and interesting political views you people have. It's no secret that this is a leftist-communist website...(no kidding). I also noticed that so many people dislike(to say the least) capitalism. Most downright HATE it. Fair enough, I can see why sometimes. Then If you hate it so much, why is this website capitalist? If you havn't noticed, there is a store on this website...selling merchandise. Oh, and you get to do all the lovely capitalist things like paying shipping and handling, taxes, and the like. And worst of all...what are you selling??! mass produced items with pictures of Che Guevara slapped on them...HOW DISGUSTING. IFyou guys knew anything about Che, you would know that he would be ROLLING IN HIS GRAVE if he knew about this. Personally I am disgusted, not as a communist, capitalist, or whatever...I am not either. I am disgusted as a man who admires Che Guevara because he was an astounding human being, who made a difference in this world, posittive or negative, he did something. I am disgusted that a site would sell the idea of this man for profit, what he stood for, goes completly against what you are doing here. You should be ashamed.

[Al Creed]

It's to pay for the URL and bandwidth. Read the FAQ's, I think it's explained.

[BuyOurEverything]

Note: Che-Lives has to finance it's own web server and without this commercial section CheLives can't stay online.

You read this? Nobody's making money off the store.

[DaCuBaN]

I might be wrong but I was under the impression that the merchandise itself is from Cuba. Still quite so disgusted?

Out of interest.... how do you think this site pays for the Gb of bandwidth it must need? or the chunky servers to run this php forum? We are all stuck in a capitalist society for the time being, and so have to 'play to the rules' to a lesser or greater extent. The owner of this site has (in my eyes) done a marvelous job creating this community and funding it in a hostile environment. Besides, it's not as if you're being MADE to buy anything from this site - in fact it provides all it's services for free. As for sullying Ché's name, you don't think he'd be quite tickled to think that there was a leftist community right at the heart of the imperialist empire?

If you have a better solution, I'm sure the 'management' would be more than happy to hear from you, but something tells me this was just a rant.

[Dan_Canadian]

I might be wrong but I was under the impression that the merchandise itself is from Cuba. Still quite so disgusted?

Out of interest.... how do you think this site pays for the Gb of bandwidth it must need? or the chunky servers to run this php forum? We are all stuck in a capitalist society for the time being, and so have to 'play to the rules' to a lesser or greater extent. The owner of this site has (in my eyes) done a marvelous job creating this community and funding it in a hostile environment. Besides, it's not as if you're being MADE to buy anything from this site - in fact it provides all it's services for free. As for sullying Ché's name, you don't think he'd be quite tickled to think that there was a leftist community right at the heart of the imperialist empire?

If you have a better solution, I'm sure the 'management' would be more than happy to hear from you, but something tells me this was just a rant

Thank you my friend, that was the response I was hoping for and expected. So, yes, I have read that and I realize that this site has to make money for it to survive(ohh what a world). But...do you honestly think that the money this site makes is just enough to keep it alive? GIVE ME A BREAK. It is obviously making a profit, plus the money it probably gets from advertiseing other websites. Next point, I'm not sure wtf they told you about how this merchandise comes from Cuba, but last time I checked the U.S. had a ban on Cuban exports..something about a missle crisis sparked that off.. :rolleyes:

AS for "tickling" Che Guevara...my ass. I'm not going to debate about how I think Che would have felt or not blah blah blah, but all I can say is that a website that runs to promote leftist communist ideals should uphold them, not be hypocrites. I've heard of plenty of sites that run on donations...i'm no expert though. Or maybe you should just ttravel to the GREAt country of Cuba and set up your webpage there...Oh wait...you can't.

And as for this being a rant...yea, thanks TIPS, it was a rant, so is everything, its a fucking message board, people come here to rant and people listen. Isn't that beautiful?!

[synthesis]

It is obviously making a profit, plus the money it probably gets from advertiseing other websites.

I'd like to know how you're privy to Malte's net revenues. Seriously, how is this "obvious"? It's just as likely that Malte is paying for what selling stuff doesn't.

I'd also like to know where you see other websites being advertised on the Che-Lives website. I don't see any.

And really, you're missing the point. Being paid a wage is a capitalist device - it doesn't mean a socialist won't have to be a wage worker to survive. It's the same logic here.

[Dan_Canadian]

I'd also like to know where you see other websites being advertised on the Che-Lives website. I don't see any.

Che-lives.com home, scroll down my freind...scrolllllll

lol

I don't know what his revenues are, i'm assuming. It would be pretty difficult to make just enough money to keep a site running. Nearly impossible. I'm no business man but anyone can figure that out.

I don't want to come off as a raving lunatic here who wants this site down, just wann provoke some interesting discussion, I thought that you guys would like to know the irony of this situation...i do...its quite funy actually! I'm injoying this :D

[Take the Power back]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2004, 11:44 PM

I'd also like to know where you see other websites being advertised on the Che-Lives website. I don't see any.

Che-lives.com home, scroll down my freind...scrolllllll

lol

I don't know what his revenues are, i'm assuming. It would be pretty difficult to make just enough money to keep a site running. Nearly impossible. I'm no business man but anyone can figure that out.

I don't want to come off as a raving lunatic here who wants this site down, just wann provoke some interesting discussion, I thought that you guys would like to know the irony of this situation...i do...its quite funy actually! I'm injoying this :D
I don't see any, either. I see one for stopping a Nazi march, and another for www.raisethefist.com Thist site runs of sales of shirts, isn't that enough for you?

[Xvall]

its a fucking message board, people come here to rant and people listen. Isn't that beautiful?!

Not quite. It seems that a lot of people have been coming here lately to equate communism to Adolph Hitler and compare political ideologies by using caffinated beverages as analogies.

[synthesis]

Che-lives.com home, scroll down my freind...scrolllllll

I still see nothing. Be more specific.

[STI]

The only sites advertised on the homepage are raisethefist.org or whatever and a site to stop the fascist march. I highly doubt anybody is making a nickel off of these.

[DaCuBaN]

let's start by quoting myself, as evidently you missed it the first time round.


it's not as if you're being MADE to buy anything from this site - in fact it provides all it's services for free

I've personally never even looked through the store - I have no desire for Ché memorabilia.


I'm not going to debate about how I think Che would have felt or not blah blah blah

Then why did you post this thread, then proceed to say you think he'd be turning in his grave over it? As far as I can see that's you giving your opinion to which I on a forum can retort.


do you honestly think that the money this site makes is just enough to keep it alive?

Evidently you've never tried to purchase decent hosting :lol: I don't know how much this site does make. How much data transfer do you think this site has? To be honest I can see it being up in the terabytes which means hosting is going to be a tad expensive.


It is obviously making a profit, plus the money it probably gets from advertiseing other websites

Adverts? where!


Or maybe you should just ttravel to the GREAt country of Cuba and set up your webpage there

Give the man a cigar! according to the CIA World Factbook (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/cu.html) there are no less than 5 isp's in Cuba. Sounds good to me :P


last time I checked the U.S. had a ban on Cuban exports

So the goods (if they do come from Cuba - I don't know this as fact) have to be rerouted before entering US soil - drives the price up, but doesn't make it impossible.

I can never underistimate the power of reading comrade :)

[STI]

compare political ideologies by using caffinated beverages as analogies.

Who did this and what was said? I'd like to give it a look, as caffinated beverages are a darling of mine.

[Dan_Canadian]

DaCuban! oh my freind, you have all the answers to my unsolved mysteries. Thank you "comrade." For those of you who didn't think this site had ads, i think they both have been pointed out, whether or not they generate revenue is still unknown I believe.

One thing, DaCuban, I'm not your enemy, just because I question things that you support does not mean I am critisizing them. (Yes, my 1st post was critical, but i mainly wanted to grab attention and start a good argument lol.). All i'm saying is don't be so defensive all the time.


Evidently you've never tried to purchase decent hosting

no, i didn't realize that was funny, most people havn't. I barely use my computer! ha ha

[/QUOTE]Then why did you post this thread, then proceed to say you think he'd be turning in his grave over it? As far as I can see that's you giving your opinion to which I on a forum can retort.


True true, I started off by assuming what he would have felt, but after the response I got, i really didn't want this to turn into a debate over how Che would feel about this site...its one of those circle things...goes nowhere...so i stopped it there, hope you don't mind.

Not quite. It seems that a lot of people have been coming here lately to equate communism to Adolph Hitler and compare political ideologies by using caffinated beverages as analogies.


Yea, where else can you tell them how stupid they are and wrong? Otherwise their ideas would go uncontested. ;)

So the goods (if they do come from Cuba - I don't know this as fact) have to be rerouted before entering US soil - drives the price up, but doesn't make it impossible.


Yea, not impossible, but from a business standpoint, completly useless. You wouldn't make any money off of the merchandise...you probably wouldn't even make enough to break even. As I said, i'm no business man...but i do have common sense. :D

I can never underistimate the power of reading comrade[QUOTE]

I didn't, and i never will. I don't know where this came from, but what they hell, i'll respond. Yea, my mom is a librarian, I read 6 or seven books at the same time, right now i'm reading up on communism and capitalism and Che guevara (partly for a school project but mostly for personal interest). Thats more than most people my age have done in their lifetime.

[DaCuBaN]

Getting our quotes back to front? :lol:

Keep up the reading - it'll only do you good :D

As for my overly defensive nature, last time I checked I was in amongst the 'opposing ideologies'. I've learned in the short while I've been on this forum not to relax for a moment whilst perusing this section lest I get flamed.

That and you did start the topic by saying that we should all be ashamed of ourselves. Hardly inviting friendly converse now is it :)

As for the adverts though, I've never actually seen the main page since the first day I came here - I only go to the forums and so I'm not aware of any advertising that goes on in the commercial section of this site.

[Dan_Canadian]

Hardly inviting friendly converse now is it

i don't recall saying it should be freindly :lol:

No, I kno, its just fun to ruffle peoples feathers, I love it when ppl get pissed an have emotional arguments, if they aren't emotional they aren't enjoyable.

[encore]

Oh I see, by advertisement, he must mean the copyright information at the bottom of the page...

BTW Bandwidth/domain name/hosting/editors etc. COST MONEY. It adds up. RTF doesnt give che-lives money to advertise, i'm fairly sure.....

By buying the stuff on this site you are helping out little starving children in Cuba! How can you be so hearless as to deny them a chance at life!

PS that was sarcasm.

[Dan_Canadian]

I wish i knew how to respond to that...

[Dan_Canadian]

website is capitalist...no doubt about it. I don't care how it gets its merchandise, where it does, how it spends its bloody money, its capitalist and thats quite ironic actually. Stop nit-picking my points and face the facts. If you think i'm wrong you're in denial.

[DaCuBaN]

You know? not one post has refuted your argument - we've all dodged it. You are quite right, the website is capitalist, and yes it is ironic.

The question is would you rather it existed in its capitalist guise or not at all?

As for my comment on reading that was in response to your jesting over siting in Cuba. Had you read that page first you'd never have made the point - sorry if I didn't make this clear.

[Lefty]

Well, we can't be sure. However, I think it is quite likely that Malte is either making no profit or very little profit off of this website, and I'm cool with that, as I'm sure it's put to good use in the unlikely event that he is making a miniscule profit. Whatever. Is it really that big of a deal? No. It really isn't. So getting all pissed off and argumentative isn't really accomplishing anything. If Malte is making a little money, which is unlikely, it probably isn't a whole lot. If he is, it's a capitalist website. Sweet job, Dan. Keep up the good work.

[DaCuBaN]

no, the site is quite clearly capitalist. But then so is everything else on the web. Other than the few websites for North Korea (friendship is only one I can think of) and Cuba the entire web is run under a capitalist system, so it's totally unavoidable that it's capitalist.

[Dan_Canadian]

Yea its unfortunate that in order for you people to express your views you have to conform to our system. I don't agree with it, but if thats what this Malte guy has to do than by all means do it.

[Osman Ghazi]

Ya, getting a job is just SOOO capitalist. I think I'll quit. ;) :lol: :lol:

[synthesis]

You know? not one post has refuted your argument - we've all dodged it. You are quite right, the website is capitalist, and yes it is ironic.


And really, you're missing the point. Being paid a wage is a capitalist device - it doesn't mean a socialist won't have to be a wage worker to survive. It's the same logic here.

It's pretty simple, Dan. We have to operate in a capitalist society and economy, and must take the measures necessary to keep our discussion group open to the public without bankrupting the admins.

BTW, you still haven't said where these advertisements are. If Malte's not getting paid for the link, it ain't an advert, homeslice.


No, I kno, its just fun to ruffle peoples feathers, I love it when ppl get pissed an have emotional arguments, if they aren't emotional they aren't enjoyable.

We have a word for people like you: Troll.

[Urban Rubble]

Good God kid. You have no idea what you are even talking about.

First, Malte is not exploiting anyone by selling this shit. He doesn't own the means of production (which means he isn't a Capitalist). He doesn't employ anyone.

Second. This is a Capitalist world. You cannot live like you are in a communist society in a Capitalist world. If you did that you would starve, you would die. Until we have communism we are going to have to participate in Capitalism.

Third. Like everyone else said, Malte makes little, if any, profit off of this stuff.

[DSCH]

The electricity we are using is only possible through capitalism. Electricity was a capitalist invention.

The computers we are using were only invented because of capitalism and computers are a capitalist invention. Same with the internet.

Message boards are a capitalist invention. Only possible because of capitalism.

[synthesis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2004, 08:03 PM
The electricity we are using is only possible through capitalism. Electricity was a capitalist invention.

The computers we are using were only invented because of capitalism and computers are a capitalist invention. Same with the internet.

Message boards are a capitalist invention. Only possible because of capitalism.
Uhh, no one denies that capitalism produces technology. This is the basis of Marxist theory. Perhaps you should do your homework :rolleyes:

[DaCuBaN]

I'd refute that to be honest - no invention can be marked from one political system to another - if we're going to be like that then commies invented the space ship :P

But that's silly. Humans invented all these things - stop getting science and politics mixed up please :lol:

[synthesis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2004, 08:09 PM
But that's silly. Humans invented all these things - stop getting science and politics mixed up please :lol:
I disagree. I think it's very important to study the effects of the different modes of production.

[DSCH]

Originally posted by DyerMaker+Apr 27 2004, 03:06 AM--> (DyerMaker @ Apr 27 2004, 03:06 AM)
[email protected] 26 2004, 08:03 PM
The electricity we are using is only possible through capitalism. Electricity was a capitalist invention.

The computers we are using were only invented because of capitalism and computers are a capitalist invention. Same with the internet.

Message boards are a capitalist invention. Only possible because of capitalism.
Uhh, no one denies that capitalism produces technology. This is the basis of Marxist theory. Perhaps you should do your homework :rolleyes: [/b]
Then what's your problem with capitalism? If you feel alienated from your labor then ask for a raise, quit, or go hunt in the jungle.

[DaCuBaN]

I don't believe that you can generalise that capitalism makes people more productive - it's not a rule as such, as different people respond differently in different situations (does that make sense? :lol: )

I understand that the revolutionary theory is that capitalism comes first then the workers take control of the means of production very kindly placed there by the capitalists, and I'm aware that any attempt to bypass this stage has resulted in faux-communism but the idea that capitalism is the way to scientific betterment doesn't work for me - after all it was russia and not america that put the first ship in space, and then the first human. All that capitalism managed to do was keep the program running (and if i'm not mistaken there is now serious thoughts to stop it) where the faux-communist regime could not.

[synthesis]

Then what's your problem with capitalism?

This is funny. So you can't possibly imagine a critique of capitalism besides a claim that it doesn't produce technology?

[Touchstone]

Ok, Dan, check this out. Of course this site is capitilist. I want you to quit being capitilist for a week. If you aren't dead, in this glorious USofA, then I appauld you. The point is that NOTHING in this country can run, much less survive without capitilism, in some form, or another. That is the current political system set up in the United States, so therefore we have to use it. Dan one last thing. Have you ever been to Cuba? If so, you know that Port authorities and Checkpoints are not that thourough in the searching of goods from Cuba. Finally, every system in the world relies on the country it is in.

[Nyder]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 03:44 AM
Ok, Dan, check this out. Of course this site is capitilist. I want you to quit being capitilist for a week. If you aren't dead, in this glorious USofA, then I appauld you. The point is that NOTHING in this country can run, much less survive without capitilism, in some form, or another. That is the current political system set up in the United States, so therefore we have to use it. Dan one last thing. Have you ever been to Cuba? If so, you know that Port authorities and Checkpoints are not that thourough in the searching of goods from Cuba. Finally, every system in the world relies on the country it is in.
'Capitalism' is not a political system. Capitalism is what happens when you leave people alone, when you don't use force to terrorise them and take away their earnings from trade.

[The Feral Underclass]

Surely you people get bored of yourselves....

When will you people stop this bullshit...and you then wonder why we dont let you go around the entire board?

[Nyder]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2004, 03:34 AM
I don't believe that you can generalise that capitalism makes people more productive - it's not a rule as such, as different people respond differently in different situations (does that make sense? :lol: )

I understand that the revolutionary theory is that capitalism comes first then the workers take control of the means of production very kindly placed there by the capitalists, and I'm aware that any attempt to bypass this stage has resulted in faux-communism but the idea that capitalism is the way to scientific betterment doesn't work for me - after all it was russia and not america that put the first ship in space, and then the first human. All that capitalism managed to do was keep the program running (and if i'm not mistaken there is now serious thoughts to stop it) where the faux-communist regime could not.
The USSR managed to launch their space program because they invested a massive amount into it - which they took out of the rest of the economy.

NASA is a government program, therefore it is not capitalist.

So far space travel has gotten very little returns, so it is unlikely that it could be supported by a free market. However, that may change in the future, with space tourism, Mars property development, satellites, etc.

[STI]

'Capitalism' is not a political system. Capitalism is what happens when you leave people alone, when you don't use force to terrorise them and take away their earnings from trade.

I agree that capitalism was inevitable. Capitalism is more than just trade, though (which I assume you know).

...Of course, I also believe capitalism's collapse is inevitable. ;)

[cubist]

EDIT *DAN CANADIAN sorry to dacuban for putting his name*

lets make a few obvious points,


1. Maltes is business is not yours,
2. Malte has said he makes no money of this i believe him.
3. The worlds economic system is capitalist, to exist you have to play ball.
4. do you think that all commies don't have jobs and sit on our fat asses (we know you think we are fat) philosophising on what the world should be. If so think again comrade, or should i say uncomrade
5. if you don't like it and its hypocritical of your standards Fukc off we haven't put a leash up your Arse.
6. by just invoking argument that you don't believe you are flaming and trolling see terms of service .

[Xvall]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2004, 03:03 AM
The electricity we are using is only possible through capitalism. Electricity was a capitalist invention.

The computers we are using were only invented because of capitalism and computers are a capitalist invention. Same with the internet.

Message boards are a capitalist invention. Only possible because of capitalism.

The electricity we are using is only possible through capitalism. Electricity was a capitalist invention. The computers we are using were only invented because of capitalism and computers are a capitalist invention. Same with the internet. Message boards are a capitalist invention. Only possible because of capitalism.

With that logic, anyone using spmething that picks up a signal from a satellite orbiting the earth is a socialist, because the first satellite put into space was done so by the efforts of the Soviet Union. Hell, the computer and television wouldn't even be possible were it not for certain Soviet inventors that discovered things about radio frequencies and electricity. Albert Einstein was a communist, so I suppose anything that he contributed is communistic. Any capitalist that acknowledges the theory of relativity must be a communist then, right?


Then what's your problem with capitalism? If you feel alienated from your labor then ask for a raise, quit, or go hunt in the jungle.

The boss won't give us a raise, if we go jobless we will die, and the jungle has either been destroyed or is owned by Starbucks.

[DaCuBaN]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 02:10 PM
DaCuBaN,

lets make a few obvious points,


1. Maltes is business is not yours,
2. Malte has said he makes no money of this i believe him.
3. The worlds economic system is capitalist, to exist you have to play ball.
4. do you think that all commies don't have jobs and sit on our fat asses (we know you think we are fat) philosophising on what the world should be. If so think again comrade, or should i say uncomrade
5. if you don't like it and its hypocritical of your standards Fukc off we haven't put a leash up your Arse.
6. by just invoking argument that you don't believe you are flaming and trolling see terms of service .
:o What'd I say? I was defending Malte....

I would dearly love to see the quotes on which your retorts are based... I didn't think I'd said anything to which your post was objecting to :unsure:

[Nyder]

I'm sure the owner of this site was forced into selling Che-lives merchandise because of the evil economic system he/she lives under. :rolleyes: Under communism, he/she would just make them then give them away... :lol:

[STI]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2004, 01:59 AM
I'm sure the owner of this site was forced into selling Che-lives merchandise because of the evil economic system he/she lives under. :rolleyes: Under communism, he/she would just make them then give them away... :lol:
Straw Man. You don't know anything about how a communist society would work. Don't pretend you do then shoot down the insane vision in your head of it so you can seem 'smart' or whatever, because it just makes you come off as an idiot

...oh, wait a minute.... :lol:

[Dan_Canadian]

Surely you people get bored of yourselves....

Yea, I am fucking bored of this. It was fun for a while, but seriously, i don't like to waste this much of my life on my computer, let alone doing this on it. Personally I am the kinda guy who does stuff, and doesn't talk about it, so this is kinda against my person. All u pussies (commies and cappies alike) should get your asses off your comps and stop wasting precious resources. YOU AREN'T ACCOMPLISHING ANYTHING

you won't hear from me again so don't bother quoting me or expecting replies

[DaCuBaN]

Call to a close? I see no need to continue this thread...

[cubist]

sorry dacuban it was for dancanadian,


anyway Dan_canadian is that a promise? you won't be missed nor remembered

[revolutionindia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2004, 04:19 AM
So, as I just joined recently, I was enjoying myself reading all of the lovely messages and interesting political views you people have. It's no secret that this is a leftist-communist website...(no kidding). I also noticed that so many people dislike(to say the least) capitalism. Most downright HATE it. Fair enough, I can see why sometimes. Then If you hate it so much, why is this website capitalist? If you havn't noticed, there is a store on this website...selling merchandise. Oh, and you get to do all the lovely capitalist things like paying shipping and handling, taxes, and the like. And worst of all...what are you selling??! mass produced items with pictures of Che Guevara slapped on them...HOW DISGUSTING. IFyou guys knew anything about Che, you would know that he would be ROLLING IN HIS GRAVE if he knew about this. Personally I am disgusted, not as a communist, capitalist, or whatever...I am not either. I am disgusted as a man who admires Che Guevara because he was an astounding human being, who made a difference in this world, posittive or negative, he did something. I am disgusted that a site would sell the idea of this man for profit, what he stood for, goes completly against what you are doing here. You should be ashamed.
To remove a thorn stuck in your feet you must use a thorn
and once they have been used it must be thrown away.
Then we continue on our journey

Capitalism will be uprooted by capitalism and then
they will end up in history's dustbin.
And mankind will prosper

[DaCuBaN]

sorry dacuban it was for dancanadian

*wipes the sweat from his brow*

Thought I was going to be up against the wall there :o :lol:

Seriously though... this thread serves no purpose

*stares around for RAF*

[Nas]

for a long time we been dependent on this capitalist system to survive. Fate, it seems, it is not without a sense of irony.

[elhumano]

Dan the Canadian. You make a really good point about this being a cappie web site. These people dont know their dicks from their assholes. I've said it once and i'll say it again. This forum is full of a bunch of poseurs. Or what in the cappie society we would call gay as fuck homosexuals. DaCuban isnt even Cuban. He just wishes he was "cabron"

[STI]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2004, 12:28 AM
Dan the Canadian. You make a really good point about this being a cappie web site. These people dont know their dicks from their assholes. I've said it once and i'll say it again. This forum is full of a bunch of poseurs. Or what in the cappie society we would call gay as fuck homosexuals. DaCuban isnt even Cuban. He just wishes he was "cabron"
Wow. You're a freakin' homophobe. Congrats.

[lucid]

Should'nt all the people in your hippy commune be donating a little for the site? Seems like that with all the hardcore redheads you have on this site you should be able to get enough donations to run the site without have to completely contradict all of your beliefs.

Just my 2 cents.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Yes, it is time.