zionism

[dark fairy]

how bad was\is this?? was there a good side?? what do you think about it???

[RedAnarchist]

Zionism was set up over 100 years ago to set up a Jewish state. It now has that state, which murders and oppresses Palestinians and is funded by the capitalit American Government.

Zionism is almost fascism. It is not Jewish as it exploits the Jewish (it used the Jewish claim to Palestine to take over Palestine) and is to Judaism what Al Qaeda are to Muslims.

[Intifada]

it is fundamentalist judaism :D

[FriedFrog]

I agree with XPhile. They were ok when the left wing government was in power tho. They actually tried to make peace.

[cubist]

its religion, religion is a gateway to oppression, it is evidence of this gateway being used to oppress,

[palestine_forever]

UN's condemnation of the "unholy alliance between South African racism and Zionism," (Resolution 3151G, 1953)

"Both the process of expropriation and removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly." Theodore Herzl (inventor of Zionism)

"The only good Arab is a dead Arab" - Rafael Eitan (Likud leader of the Tsomet faction 1981)

Zionism is sick and should be destroyed.

[elijahcraig]

Zionism as a movement in modern times began in the early 1900s (before the Holocaust), and eventually deteriorated into rigid State Capitalism, Israel, which is, as many have said, more of an army with a state, than a state with an army.

[dark fairy]

i agree with a lot of what was said here but do you people think that it is still going on now... without having all these motherfuckers noticing... there is a lot of drama with palestinia and damn but other thian that?????

[thatCHEr]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2004, 09:19 AM
Zionism was set up over 100 years ago to set up a Jewish state. It now has that state, which murders and oppresses Palestinians and is funded by the capitalit American Government.

Zionism is almost fascism. It is not Jewish as it exploits the Jewish (it used the Jewish claim to Palestine to take over Palestine) and is to Judaism what Al Qaeda are to Muslims.
Hmm no. Zionism is part of Judaism, the belief that Israel is the Jew's holy land, and was given to them as part of the covenent agreed with god. Jews have believed this for around 4000 years, if my memory serves me correct, not 100 years. They began arriving in Israel from Egypt at around 2000BC, and remained there until ~500BC upon being conquered by the Babylonians, Jerusalem destroyed. From then on the Romans, Arabs, Crusaders and British all ruling at various points. But if you are going to get historical, then Jews for far longer than 100 years have believed in Israel being the promised land.

Zionism being almost fascist. That is ridiculous. I hope you don't represent the common belief here. Zionism is the belief that god has promised the land known as Israel to the Jews, in return for them keeping the covenent. Hence they see their previous displacements from Israel due to them not following the covenent well enough. The covenent being what Moses agreed with God on Mount Sinai, during the exodus from Egypt.
That has nothing to do with fascism.

[thatCHEr]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2004, 06:55 PM
its religion, religion is a gateway to oppression, it is evidence of this gateway being used to oppress,
You realise that no society has ever been without religion. From the beginning of civilization to modern day Earth. Even the soviet union, and Cuba, both these have forms of religion in them. You can argue that they are not 'true' communism, but nevertheless, they are at least partially based on Marxist thought.
On this very forum religion is evident, with 'Che', communist symbols, and Marxist literature treated as sacred items.

Therefore its evident that society, humans, need religion. It satisfies basic human needs, which society can not in any other way meet. Specifically the need for life after death. Now religion cannot provide detailed and complete promises of this, but they are able to act as 'compensators'. That is, the belief that the goal will be obtained in the distant future or in some other context that cannot be verified. A type of IOU you could say. In the absence of an alternative, people have to turn to these compensators.
In terms of life after death, these compensators are religious beliefs, spirituality and the belief in something above science - the paranormal.

Oh this isn't some theory I've just came up with, its a well developed social theory, in my opinion the most accurate. Stark and Bainbridge are its theorists, if anyone happens to be interested in more detailed reading.

[cubist]

man has never been free either he has always had his ass owned by someone higher,

it is a requirement for oppressed people!!!,

i have no time now going home but thatCHEr i will debate with you on this

[redstar2000]

Zionism is part of Judaism, the belief that Israel is the Jew's holy land, and was given to them as part of the covenant agreed with god. Jews have believed this for around 4000 years, if my memory serves me correct, not 100 years. They began arriving in Israel from Egypt at around 2000BC...

All wrong.

Zionism is not "a part" of Judaism; modern Zionism was founded in the late 19th century with the specific purpose of setting up a Jewish homeland in what was then part of the Ottoman Empire.

Prior to the time, Jews did indeed believe that they would return to Palestine...but only when the messiah showed up. Zionism was a secular version of this belief and needed no messiah.

The belief itself was probably invented, like much of Judaism, during the Babylonian captivity and in the course of the building of the "second temple" immediately thereafter, c.600BCE.

There was no "arrival of Jews from Egypt around 2000BCE" or any other time. Modern historians consider the Jews just one of a number of related tribes who lived in that part of the world. There were many others.


Zionism is the belief that god has promised the land known as Israel to the Jews, in return for them keeping the covenant.

Granted that this is an easy impression to acquire, it's not really true. The 19th century Zionists did not appeal to European Jews to move to Palestine "because that was god's plan" but because they thought that European anti-semitism was incurable.


You realise that no society has ever been without religion.

No society of which we have written records has been without classes either.

If we can contemplate a classless society, why not then a society without religion?


On this very forum religion is evident, with 'Che', communist symbols, and Marxist literature treated as sacred items.

Ok, you're new here, so allowances must be made. If you read the threads attentively, you will quickly learn that anyone who treats "Marxist literature" as "sacred" will be laughed at, sharply criticized, or both.

Granted that there are and have been people who treat Marxism as if it were "scripture", I think you will find that view is falling "out of fashion".

It's counter-revolutionary.


Therefore it's evident that society, humans, need religion.

Class societies find religion useful for the "justification" of the unjust.

Humans, as individuals, do not necessarily need religion at all...there are millions of atheists.


It satisfies basic human needs...Specifically the need for life after death.

If everyone knew from childhood that when you die, that's it, and there were no religions around to make false promises, your "basic human need" would disappear.


Oh, this isn't some theory I've just came up with; it's a well developed social theory, in my opinion the most accurate.

It's utterly preposterous crapola.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[DaCuBaN]

its evident that society, humans, need religion. It satisfies basic human needs, which society can not in any other way meet. Specifically the need for life after death

When I die, I rot. I'm perfectly happy knowing this - a LOT happier in fact than when I was brainwashed into thinking that 'God is watching me'

People don't need religion - people seem to need HOPE, and under a repressive regime Relgion is often the tool used to satisfy this desire

It is simply another form of exploitation in my mind


It's utterly preposterous crapola.

Couldn't have put it better myself :D

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Granted that this is an easy impression to acquire, it's not really true. The 19th century Zionists did not appeal to European Jews to move to Palestine "because that was god's plan" but because they thought that European anti-semitism was incurable.

Actually, Theodor Herzl, who was a pioneer of modern Zionism presented his idea to the British, with the offer that it would be a good military strategic position. Appeasing the Jews was only an excuse the British used for their obvious imperialism.

[Kurai Tsuki]

Zionism involves the desire of the Jewish people to have their own state. But the place where they feel that they belong just happened to be inhabited already by masses of Palestinians (and some Jews who were living on fairly good terms with them), and so in 1948 the Palestinians who lived there were forced out of their land (those who weren’t massacred of placed into internment camps) and had to group themselves into giant refugee camps.

Israel has received an annual 3 billion dollars from America which it uses to increase it's military strength, and it can almost always count on American support in its next, "military venture."