A problem within

[Retro]

Just like religion, there are so many different forms of Communism that people believe are right...

How can anything ever be accomplished if we all can't agree on how things should be?

Just curious.

[Pawn Power]

you bring up an important point. When i first started studying communism i was under impression that policies were generally a agreed apon by communists. The more i learn about modern communist the more i see the divions within the communists. They agree on the large issues but dissagree tremendously on other smaller subjects. This also happened during the Russian revolution when the Mensheviks and Bolsheviks dissagreed about issues under communism, and their were even more divions besides the Mensheviks and Bolsheviks.

If we want to obtain a communist nation we will have to unite under communism and through away all of our petty disagrements.

[dark fairy]

it takes time i guess to tie all the ends :unsure:

[RedAnarchist]

Of course it atkes time, but there are so many common idea in all types of Communism. We all must ensure that a united Communist idealogy is created as soon as possible.

[God of Imperia]

No it doesn't, it's very easy, we are right (or at least I am) and the rest is wrong :P

[toastedmonkey]

exactly, there is too much segregation on the left

until the whole can make short term sacrafices for long term success there isnt gonna be much change

short term, if we all grouped together, leftism can move, if by doing that we can get in a position where the right wing is all but a thing of the past then, you can all sort your differences out

[Intifada]

without unity the left will never gain any significant influence in today's world. we should set our differences aside as soon as possible.

[Retro]

But how can such a thing ever happen at this rate? We continue staying dividing, and it seems as if the only thing that may bring us together is a "hero" or some form of large scale action. :huh:

[apathy maybe]

Yaa! Another thread about how the left is not united and needs a common ideal. Only trouble is, geez wiz, we don't. Sure we are not united, but surely having a number of different ideas is better then haveing one which is wrong?

There are as many (if not more) versions of Communism as there are of Christianity. However, not all leftisits are Communists (in what ever sense). Some are Anarchists (of whatever type), some Socialists (democratic, authoritarian etc). There is no way you will combine all those ideas into one.

[Retro]

But how can we ever possibly be taken seriously in our division? People see a group divided and unsure of what is right, and then possibly if a revolution does occur, we will be split on who is right.

This isn't on the same level as religions "im right and your wrong" problems. We have the ability to work towards a firm, strong goal. This will be the only way the left will ever be taken seriously.

[Kaan]

Like the right doesn't have division? Division won't deter anyone if they actually want their emancipation, whats important is the underlying idea. Education and class consciousness is what is important, people can make their own conclusions as to what theory they follow

[God of Imperia]

most of us have the same goal, only how to achieve this is what we don't agree on ... but we should just go for it and see how far we get as a group, then make democratic decisions about how we should continue and then create the society we want to live in!

[bunk]

I hope it won't get to the stage where would be fighting eachother..

[peaccenicked]

We can unite to do things look at the anti war demos across the globe. The unity of workers has always outstripped that of communists. If we waited for communists in the here and now to show unity the planet might just about as well leave orbit.

[Essential Insignificance]

To put in unequivocally it would be "significantly" un-communistic not to question our surroundings and dogmas…thus the variants of "leftist" ideologies that are circulating unbridled across the globe…this is an pre-eminent perception…one to be looked upon with progressiveness in mind and with intent.

What must be committed to memory is that our revolutionary objectives are that of the abolishment of private property…and from this simple implement society as a whole will transform like never attested before…the end of class society.

In other words our ends are that of the same but our means to an end are contradictory. Hence its only "natural", if you like, that antagonistic ideologies of revolutionary characters of reason collide… adhering to revolutionary theories…it not something to be taken "lightly".

As already mentioned moderately, its not going to be up to "me" our "you" whose whim is followed post-proletarian revolution…as "conscious revolutionaries".

It’s the proletarian that will be making the "selections" of how society will "function" and "regulate".

Buts that not to say that our notions will not be heard receptively by the proletarian…we just don’t know…time shall tell.

Sooner rather then latter.

[toastedmonkey]

Originally posted by apathy [email protected] 23 2004, 09:57 AM
Yaa! Another thread about how the left is not united and needs a common ideal. Only trouble is, geez wiz, we don't. Sure we are not united, but surely having a number of different ideas is better then haveing one which is wrong?
No we dont need a common ideal, we need to be united
any form of leftism is better than any form of rightism

Kaan:

The right does have devision, probbalt not so muchg as teh left, but that doesnt matter

The fact is the rightwing is in power in the majority of the world, they can affod to have a bit of segregation

Diversity is a good thing, but until the left is in a position, which will only be achieved by being united, that diversity will and does hold back the leftwing of the world

[Kaan]

I happen to disagree here, the diversity will help garner more support for the overall goal of the left. What someone doesn't find in Anarchy they could find in communism, what someone doesn't find in Marx they may find in Lenin. The bigger issue here is to get the people to understand that there is problem in todays soceity, because a lot of people dont even recognize that.

[toastedmonkey]

yes kaan

i dont think we should have just the one ideology in leftism
the amount there is, is fine

but until we have a strong platform plaform, we should recognise we are working for similar ideas, and put our differences behind

if all the leftist groups in the world decided to put their differences aside and work for a left world, then there would be great progress, then you can settle all the differences

[guerrillaradio]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2004, 08:44 AM
We can unite to do things look at the anti war demos across the globe.
The anti-war movement transcends class. One faction which attended demos was a group of rich businessmen claiming Iraq shouldn't be invaded cos it would be too costly to the taxpayer. The vast majority of those marching were citing the death of innocents, and for that reason I believe they would do the same in the event of a revolution.

[Don't Change Your Name]

The left is usually divided by the "anarchism vs leninism" argument. Most leftists have a tendency towards one of both systems. It's like a leftist spectrum.

If the left isn't "winning" it's because material reality doesn't allow for such an advanced stage yet.

[Essential Insignificance]

If the left isn't "winning" it's because material reality doesn't allow for such an advanced stage yet.

Agreed to a extent.

The left does not "win"…but rather mankind does as whole.

If the revolution has not ensued in an advanced capitalist nation, it has absolutely nothing to do with our doing or there lack of.

Because material reality is the "driving force" of the revolutionary proletarian and if the proletarian has not yet fermented…it has nothing to do with us. Material conditions will play their role in the overthrow of the bourgeoisie tyranny.

Capitalism has already "one foot in the grave"…a little longer it will be totally in.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2004, 11:05 PM
but until we have a strong platform plaform, we should recognise we are working for similar ideas, and put our differences behind
How long can those differences last. I am all up for fighting united front issues, but how far can anarchists and leninists work. I know many anarchists who wouldnt trust a leninists if you paid them...History shows exactly what leninists do to us beautiful anarchists....They shoot us....Never again...we have learnt from our mistakes. Trusting the leninists too much was a mistake...

[toastedmonkey]

is that not more of a personal thing joe?

Im sure in general any random lenninist wouldnt eant to kill any random anarchist

maybe the lenninist on this board want to kill you, but that is a personal thing