In Addition.. - People say that communism never works.

[Xvall]

However, Communism has worked. Also known as 'Primitive Communism', American Indian and African communities lived in equality and peace. Ever notice that there was no corporate Native American chief that fired his employees? They all lived in peace, each person haveing their assigned task, and each person in the tribe recieving food and shelter. However, it didn't last too long. Imperialists eventually came along and murdured all the Indians with disease and genocide. So when they ran out of Native Americans, they decided to go and enslave all the Africans. It wasn't even until about 30 years ago when they finally stopped discrimination against ALL of the African population in this country.

[Field Marshal]

do you have anything to back that up? Then your theory can be put to use.

[bleed3r]

it's commonly accepted history. what backup is needed?

[Guest]

you really can't argue that an economic structure such as the one of the native american's is even close to being on the same scale as one today...... but you do have a point nonetheless

[Dreadnaht1]

Drake Dracoli, you do make a point. But what the Native Americans had could not be communism. They didn't have an economy for communism to be in. I think they were closer to civilised anarchy really.

-Dread

[vox]

First off, Native Americans did not live in peace. There were wars, and they were brutal wars.

Second, "primitive communism" has nothing at all to do with post-industrial communism (again, I reject essentialist arguments).

I do not believe for a moment that Marxism is about some Idealistic anarchist "primitivism." Indeed, the entire theory of historical materialism denies such a terrible thing.

vox

[Supermodel]

and the answer is........

in the end, I predict a blending of these economic and political theories into one that limits the extreme ends of the wealth spectrum (true poverty and excessive wealth are both obscene)

People will be free to follow their own goals and happiness, with a limit to inherited wealth

Goverments will stay the hell out of our lives and perform only clearly governmental policy (defense, international relations)

Sounds a bit like what the UK and US strive to be, maybe.

[peaccenicked]

Here is Engels on morgan the poineer of anthropology
"And now, in conclusion, Morgan's judgment of civilization:

Since the advent of civilization, the outgrowth of property has been so immense, its forms so diversified, its uses so expanding and its management so intelligent in the interests of its owners, that it has become, on the part of the people, an unmanageable power. The human mind stands bewildered in the presence of its own creation. The time will come, nevertheless, when human intelligence will rise to the mastery over property, and define the relations of the state to the property it protects, as well as the obligations and the limits of the rights of its owners. The interests of society are paramount to individual interests, and the two must be brought into just and harmonious relations. A mere property career is not the final destiny of mankind, if progress is to be the law of the future as it has been of the past. The time which has passed away since civilization began is but a fragment of the past duration of man's existence; and but a fragment of the ages yet to come. The dissolution of society bids fair to become the termination of a career of which property is the end and aim; because such a career contains the elements of self-destruction. Democracy in government, brotherhood in society, equality in rights and privileges, and universal education, foreshadow the next higher plane of society to which experience, intelligence and knowledge are steadily tending. It will be a revival, in a higher form, of the liberty, equality and fraternity of the ancient gentes. "
Tribe structure cannot be explained away by 'brutal wars'

[vox]

"in the end, I predict a blending of these economic and political theories into one that limits the extreme ends of the wealth spectrum (true poverty and excessive wealth are both obscene)"

It's a pretty thought, huh? However, it completely ignores the social relations inherent in capitalism and so ignores the large difference in power between the few rich and the many poor.

It's a sweet dream, but there's no evidence at all that it would ever come true.

vox

[Supermodel]

I'm just a simple girl with a dream!!!

BTW, I bet that's how Che got started too.

You are right, it's a fantasy. But so is perfect capitalism, socialism, and communism.

[Dreadnaht1]

Actually perfect capitalism is a nightmare. It makes me feel like screaming.

-Dread

[Jurhael]

I don't believe there's ever going to be a perfect anything.

NOBODY is perfect, so no one should assume that any ideologies will ever be perfectly applied.