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View Full Version : is bob dylan really and truly a sell-out?



dopediana
20th April 2004, 16:11
i think he has. he put out some great stuff in his time but while he wrote general antiwar ballads he never once sang an anti-vietnam war anthem, or at least to my knowledge.


http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0416-06.htm
Not Across My Daughter's Big Brass Bed You Don't, Bob
by Leslie Bennetts

My husband had just bought the newly issued CD of Bob Dylan's 1964 concert at Philharmonic Hall in New York, and our 15-year-old daughter was perplexed at yet another addition to our already extensive Dylan archive. She had never understood what made this raspy-voiced guy so important, anyway. "Why is he famous?" she asked.

Delighted at the opportunity to deliver a history lesson, her father — a passionate antiwar activist during the Vietnam years — spent the next couple of hours playing old songs and explaining Dylan's seminal role in the protest music of the 1960s. I listened as I read the morning paper, and thinking about the parallels between Vietnam and the bloodbath in Iraq against a soundtrack of Dylan songs was almost too painful to bear. How many times, indeed?

The next day, I was startled to see Dylan's craggy, hawklike face glaring out at me from the television screen in a Victoria's Secret commercial. He looked angry, dissipated and possibly deranged; his eyes had that paranoid, menacing look one associates with inmates in lock-up wards. He also looked old; Dylan is 62 and, judging by his appearance, has lived hard.

He was singing a bitter song called "Love Sick" as a nubile young model writhed around in her underwear and stiletto heels. Sultry and blank-faced, she looked about as old as my daughter. Was this porno-babe supposed to be Dylan's current obsession? His fantasy? Were we meant to think this was cool and edgy?

The only edge I saw was the distasteful spectacle of a geezer sexually fixated on a girl young enough to be his granddaughter. When the man who wrote "Forever Young" starts leering at jailbait during prime time, the result looks like a recruiting tool for a pedophilia advocacy group.

And what about the great minds behind such advertising campaigns? Teenagers constitute a critical segment of Victoria's Secret's target audience. My daughter spends a considerable amount of money on its products, but I'm the one who finances her purchases. And from a female, not to mention a parental, point of view, this ad was repellent. Do the geniuses who come up with these ideas really think the sexual fantasies of aging males appeal to women, whether mothers or daughters? Guys, let me give you a clue: Nymphets are not lusting after Bob Dylan these days. Even 60-year-old grandmothers are not lusting after Bob Dylan these days.

My daughter's counterculture history lesson notwithstanding, she will now retain the Victoria's Secret commercial as her most indelible memory of an artist who once had a profound effect on American culture. All over the country, crestfallen baby boomers are watching this ad campaign and wondering, "Why did he do it?"

After being a world-famous star for 40 years, could he possibly be broke? Who cares? He did it for the same reason that fabulously rich movie stars who earn $20 million a picture can still be seduced into making jeans ads in Japan: It's the money, stupid.

Or maybe we should view it as the kinky product of a long-standing fetish rather than simply as a spasm of greed. Nearly 40 years ago, when asked if there was anything that might tempt him to sell out, Dylan reportedly replied, "Ladies' undergarments." But even that theory doesn't hold up — he sold "The Times They Are A-Changin' " for a Bank of Montreal ad eight years ago. No exculpatory pathology there, aside from garden-variety avarice.

I suppose even Dylan has the right to pad his retirement account, but it's hard to defend his status as an enduring icon of moral outrage and political integrity when he's shilling for bras and panties.

As I scan each day's front-page pictures of fire and destruction in Iraq, it's equally depressing to consider the current scene. After all, it's not as if the torch has been passed to the younger set. Today's musical superstars seem more interested in hawking their clothing lines and name-brand perfumes than in any meaningful form of political action. Far from protesting the status quo, they're the foremost exemplars of how to exploit it to the max.

Can we be surprised that an old guy is cashing in too? These days it's all about merchandising.

Now, there's a legacy to pass on to the next generation.

BOZG
20th April 2004, 16:24
The man is a fluffy liberal and always has been, I don't know why anyone is suprised at this.

fernando
20th April 2004, 16:30
Jonh Lennon never believed in Bob Dylan....

Hate Is Art
20th April 2004, 18:07
Personaly I love Bob Dylan, easily the best song writer os his generation. Songs like "The Hurricane" and "Subterraean Homesick Blues" are just phenominal, he is truly a ledgend.

Maybe he is a sell-out but his music is still fantastic and I don't think I will ever stop listening to it.

Dr. Rosenpenis
20th April 2004, 23:15
He did write some amazing songs, and I love his music, but I can hardly ever identify politically with musicians, including Dylan. Like BOZG said, he's just some softy liberal.

iwwobblie
21st April 2004, 04:04
I wouldn't even call him a liberal since he is an ardent Zionist and a born again Christian.

Urban Rubble
21st April 2004, 04:29
Wow, I'm shocked. Bob Dylan likes hot young women, what a scumbag. I can understand being pissed that he would do a Victoria Scret commercial, I just think it is odd how the author was coming down on him like he was some sort of pedophile. Listen ma'am, men are perverts, we have extremely high large sex drives. No matter how much we deny it, we like hot women, regardless of our age, marital status or political orientation, we are still going to find young hot women attractive.


I wouldn't even call him a liberal since he is an ardent Zionist and a born again Christian.

Liberals can't be Christians ?

iwwobblie
21st April 2004, 04:44
The fundamentalist born-again types usually aren't liberal.

El Brujo
21st April 2004, 07:16
Liberals in the US are basically soft neo-cons...

dopediana
21st April 2004, 12:41
tyler, i'm not in agreement with the woman that bob dylan is a nasty old lecher, i'm just disappointed that he let his music be featured and himself be featured in a victoria's secret ad. i wonder what joan baez thinks of him now.

Dr. Rosenpenis
21st April 2004, 23:59
Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 11:04 PM
I wouldn't even call him a liberal since he is an ardent Zionist and a born again Christian.
Meh, he's still a liberal.

In the US you don't have to do much to be a liberal, because you've got folks like Clinton who are considered liberals.

Ziggy
22nd April 2004, 00:54
I wouldn't say he sold out. He's at the end of his career, he can barely sing like he used to, his new work isnt as good, his movie bombed, he just wants a last momement in the light. Sure, I'd rather him not do the commercial, but i won't steal one last moment from the feable legend.

on a side note: weren't zionists jewish?

Dr. Rosenpenis
22nd April 2004, 00:57
A zionist is an advocate of an Israeli state in former Palestinian land.

Ziggy
22nd April 2004, 01:00
ah i see, thanks for clearing that up redzeppelin

truthaddict11
22nd April 2004, 01:07
Does him being in a lingere ad make me feel different about him? No. I mean The Clash have had thier songs used to sell cars and I think Levis, does that deny thier greatness?

Rastafari
22nd April 2004, 02:49
I am almost as sad as I was when I found out Arlo Guthrie made a fucking movie.

canikickit
22nd April 2004, 03:20
Arlo Guthrie's film is fucking brilliant. One of the greatest of all time, "Alice's Resteraunt".

Urban Rubble
22nd April 2004, 03:55
I heard Robert Plant is going to be doing a tampax Tampons commercial later this month. It will feature him frolicking in a field, horseback riding and doing gymnastics, all to a soundtrack of "When the Levee Breaks".

truthaddict11
22nd April 2004, 03:57
ROFL! :lol:

dopediana
22nd April 2004, 05:49
TYLER!!! you had me believing you for ten seconds.....i was seriously freaked out. and then i saw tom's post and realized everything is alright.

SittingBull47
22nd April 2004, 14:07
Originally posted by Digital [email protected] 20 2004, 06:07 PM
"Subterraean Homesick Blues" are just phenominal, he is truly a ledgend.


Yes he is a sell-out. He used to be so avidly opposed to it, but it appears not to be so anymore.

you should hear the Chili peppers version of the song

Pingu
22nd April 2004, 18:05
Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 11:15 PM
He did write some amazing songs, and I love his music, but I can hardly ever identify politically with musicians, including Dylan. Like BOZG said, he's just some softy liberal.
i identify my political views with a lot of musicians, for example RATM, Ska-p, Pennywise and Anti Flag

Sabocat
22nd April 2004, 18:48
he put out some great stuff in his time but while he wrote general antiwar ballads he never once sang an anti-vietnam war anthem, or at least to my knowledge.

Although he may have not actually sung a song with a verse directly about Vietnam, I think taken in the context of the times the songs were written in, it would seem that they were anti-Vietnam war songs.

Masters of War for instance, to me only means one thing. Unmistakably. I think the song is a bit of a tribute to Eisenhower's coining of the phrase "Military Industrial Complex"



Masters of War

Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build the big bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks

You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly

Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain

You fasten the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud

You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins

How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
Even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do

Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul

And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand o'er your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead

Or this....


WITH GOD ON OUR SIDE


Oh my name it is nothin'
My age it means less
The country I come from
Is called the Midwest
I's taught and brought up there
The laws to abide
And that land that I live in
Has God on its side.

Oh the history books tell it
They tell it so well
The cavalries charged
The Indians fell
The cavalries charged
The Indians died
Oh the country was young
With God on its side.

Oh the Spanish-American
War had its day
And the Civil War too
Was soon laid away
And the names of the heroes
I's made to memorize
With guns in their hands
And God on their side.

Oh the First World War, boys
It closed out its fate
The reason for fighting
I never got straight
But I learned to accept it
Accept it with pride
For you don't count the dead
When God's on your side.

When the Second World War
Came to an end
We forgave the Germans
And we were friends
Though they murdered six million
In the ovens they fried
The Germans now too
Have God on their side.

I've learned to hate Russians
All through my whole life
If another war starts
It's them we must fight
To hate them and fear them
To run and to hide
And accept it all bravely
With God on my side.

But now we got weapons
Of the chemical dust
If fire them we're forced to
Then fire them we must
One push of the button
And a shot the world wide
And you never ask questions
When God's on your side.

In a many dark hour
I've been thinkin' about this
That Jesus Christ
Was betrayed by a kiss
But I can't think for you
You'll have to decide
Whether Judas Iscariot
Had God on his side.

So now as I'm leavin'
I'm weary as Hell
The confusion I'm feelin'
Ain't no tongue can tell
The words fill my head
And fall to the floor
If God's on our side
He'll stop the next war.

There are a bunch more, and I think the inference was definitely anti-Vietnam war. However Bob was a great poet and his lyrics are certainly open for interpretation.

Also...I was very disappointed to see Dylan do a commercial. There are some people you're just sure aren't gonna sell out, and then...... :(

Wiesty
24th April 2004, 15:40
Im not a great fan of his music (some of his songs) but i respect the man for what he has done for music.

I was also named after him.
Ma names dylan and i was named after Bob Dylan and Dylan Thomas

Timon of Athens
8th May 2004, 22:41
Originally posted by Digital [email protected] 20 2004, 06:07 PM
Personaly I love Bob Dylan, easily the best song writer of his generation.
Maybe he is a sell-out but his music is still fantastic and I don't think I will ever stop listening to it.
My thoughts exactly! One problem though 'Like a Rolling Stone', 'Tombstone Blues' or 'With God on Our Side' are his best songs... Whatever, they're all good. And thanks to Disgustapated for pointing out that Dylan's lyrics are often very anti-war-in-general.

Roses in the Hospital
10th May 2004, 18:53
I heard that Bob Dylan's considering featuring as a judge on American Idol. Paul McCartney was mentioned too. Should be intresting to say the least...

Timon of Athens
12th May 2004, 01:18
Bob on American Idol? That would be interesting given that, though his lyrics are great, he's not the sort of singer they seem to like. I doubt that he would even have made it past the second round if he were the one trying out... whatever.. Still would be interesting.

synthesis
12th May 2004, 05:23
I read about this in Rolling Stone. Apparently, Bob did an interview at about the beginning of his career in which he was asked the question: "If you ever sell out to anything, what will it be?" His reply:"Panties!"

Forty years or so later, he's kept true to his word. I can respect a man for that. :lol:

DaCuBaN
12th May 2004, 05:35
Bob on American Idol?

I bloody hope not! I'd burn my vinyls!

Well... maybe that's a little hasty....


Apparently, Bob did an interview at about the beginning of his career in which he was asked the question: "If you ever sell out to anything, what will it be?" His reply:"Panties!"

:lol: credit where credit's due: If you're going to sell out you may as well make the most of it. What better way? :rolleyes: :D

He hasn't lost any of my respect: as you get older it follows that you get less confrontational - who is to say that his advertising career isn't going to get thousands more listening, which in turn may get them thinking - and you can see where I'm going here.