Mikhail Gorbachev

[Ziggy]

There probably already was a thread on this so forgive me, but anyways...
Was Mikhail Gorbachev the killer of the Soviet Union as many people say he is or is he something else, something more? I appreciate Gorbachev for what he did. I believe the Glasnost and Perestroika were great and daring reforms. Centralized economies are inefficient with excessive military spending and declining standards of living, food shortages, and shoddy goods produced by their poor economy. The Perestroika or “restructuring” of the economy attempted to decentralize the economy, created a market system, and alienated those in power, i.e. military leaders, by giving more power to the people. Glasnost, or “openness”, allowed people to speak their minds, criticizes the government, and the government admitting past mistakes as well. Glasnost allowed ethnic minorities to form their own states. He lifted the veil of oppression from the satellite states and if they wanted, were able to leave the USSR. Frankly, I think he only saw the suffering of his people and wanted them to have better lives and he is an underdog that has disappeared from the minds and textbooks but in time will truly be recognized for what he did.

[Comrade Raz]

A few of the things he did were alright, and it was a good thing the USSR collapsed as it represented a deformed socialist state and was only earning Marxist theory a bad name.

From what you say you sound like you support a free market system, i can never agree with this and situations in Russia are in most conditions worse for the working people now than there were in the Soviet Union.

In my opinion Gorbachov made a small number of positive moves but was pretty much a reactionary facist twat.

[Ziggy]

I despise free market, I want open markets- no tariffs, fair trade, equal opportunities, and the like. Situations may be worse now, but at the time, Gorbachev was trying to help the people, but party officials despised him for his policies and views on popular sovereignty and autonomy. The corrupt officials wanted to keep all the power they could and Gorbachev gave it to the people.

In my opinion Gorbachov made a small number of positive moves but was pretty much a reactionary facist twat
How was his reforms reactionary? In the sense of reactionary and revolutionary aren't ideas like popular sovereignty and autonomy revolutionary? If he was reactionary then he would have made reforms that pertained to anti-nationalism, militarism, centralizing of power, and such. I can't even call Gorbachev a fascist without laughing

[RedAnarchist]

Maybe Gorbachev saw how the Soviet Union was making Communism look evil and the tensions between Occident and Orient, and did everything he did to help bring down the USSR.

[Comrade Raz]

Gorbachov turned Russia into a capitalist state, if he thinks that was best for the people, then that makes him a capitalist. Personally i dont think capitalism can ever be 'good for the people'.

Although my knowledge of Perestroika is limited i thought it was creating a free market therefore turning Russia capitalist and whilst the collapse of the USSR may have been good for the reputation of marxism it has become a hellhole of free markets and povert.

I use the term 'facist' losely to describe much of the right wing, i look at Gorbachovs relationship with Reagen and Thatcher (people i'd call facist) and this makes me think he leans a similar way.

[RedAnarchist]

Maybe there needs to be a new Russian Revolution, but this time without purges and chekas and siberian prisons.

[Red Skyscraper]

I'm not too certain about Gorbachev. When the Soviet Union collapsed I heard from my professor that he went on a three-day vacation in the Crimea while hardcore Communists were attempting to launch a coup with tanks but Yeltsin and the people stopped them. Perhaps Gorbachev was selling out to Western interests with glasnost and perestroika, trying to change Russia into a "free-market" society by benefitting the rich of the West. But I'm really not sure.

[Roses in the Hospital]

Margaret Thatcher once said of Gorbochev 'I like Mr. Gorbochev, we can do buisness...' Well, any friend of Thatcher can't be someone I'd have respect for...

[Ziggy]

the reason Gorachev was on the so called "vacation" was because he was exiled. I think if Gorbachev was able to finish his policies instead of being ousted the results would have been very different. Perestroika was not about a free market, it was decentralizing power, either way i think corrupt party leaders that desired nothing more than power made it difficult for Gorbachev to undergo his reconstruction, which was why it collapsed.

[Xvall]

Bastard.

[Ian]

Gorbachev is a piece of shit.

Why do you think he never got more than 2% of the vote in any part of the Soviet Union in the one open election he participated in? Because he is a fuckwit.

[Ziggy]

Why do you think he never got more than 2% of the vote in any part of the Soviet Union in the one open election he participated in?
Ian, can you show documents or books that state that? Sorry to be a hardass, just want to see backing to the statement.

[Salvador Allende]

Zhao Ziyang said that Gorbachev was a fool because he was trying to bring political reforms before economic reforms. I would definitely agree with that.

[Ian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2004, 01:51 AM

Why do you think he never got more than 2% of the vote in any part of the Soviet Union in the one open election he participated in?
Ian, can you show documents or books that state that? Sorry to be a hardass, just want to see backing to the statement.
It is in this. (http://left.ru/inter/january/malenko.html)

[Red Skyscraper]

Wow, Comrade Irina sure hit the nail on the head. I guess I've been reading too much biased Western writings on the Soviet Union all these years... :unsure: The problems going on in Russia today are uncannily similar to what's going on in the US.


the reason Gorbachev was on the so called "vacation" was because he was exiled. I think if Gorbachev was able to finish his policies instead of being ousted the results would have been very different. Perestroika was not about a free market, it was decentralizing power, either way i think corrupt party leaders that desired nothing more than power made it difficult for Gorbachev to undergo his reconstruction, which was why it collapsed.

Heh, I knew my professor was full of shit. Doesn&#39;t surprise me, he&#39;s a US History teacher, and a lot of what he says I know to be fucking lies. <_<

[Ziggy]

For A Global Glasnost (http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0422-14.htm)
This is a very good article by Gorbachev, it shows some of his ideals. It is not some "Western Capitalist Propoganda" so do not disregard this article. For those that are interested and are near or in driving distance, Mikhail Gorbachev will be a guest speaker at Guilford College next fall. Guilford is located in Greensboro, North Carolina.

Guilford College - Bryan Distinguished Visiting Professorship in the Arts, Humanities and Public Affairs (http://www.guilford.edu/admin/index.cfm?ID=700004410)

[atlanticche]

well he just tried to save it, the problem being that everyperson who has ever read the communist manifesto has come away with a different view on it, and then they try to enforce it, gorbachov saw that he needed the helkp of capitalism to bring back a time when the people were still civil and ready to except new opinion or new power which had been fucked up by all that came before him


he did have a part in killing it just not as much as the others

[KickMcCann]

hey, shouldn&#39;t Yeltsin get some blame? I mean he was the straw that broke the camel&#39;s back. If he hadn&#39;t declared Russia out of the USSR, don&#39;t you think Gorbachev could have re-entered Moscow and continued with the proper reforms? Actually, if I were to blame anyone, it would be the coup plotters who set the wheel of collapse into motion; they exiled Gorbechev, rolled tanks into Moscow, and put Yeltsin on the map with the coup. I think Gorbachev got a bad deal thats all, but then again, Zhao Ziyang could be right.

[atlanticche]

not forgetting america refusal to co-operate in funds and advertising and so forth in russia