Why do they call them terrorists?

[Hasta Siempre Comandante]

Why do people continue to use the word terrorists when describing Palestinians? How come when Israeli soldiers shoot and bomb Palestinians killing innocent men, women and children- they are not described as terrorists? When a 15 year old boy is willing to strap himself to a bomb- that's not terrorism - that's desperation!! The fact is that Palestinians do not have the weaponry that Israelis have- this is a war- they have the right to defend their people the same way Israel or any other country has. What do you guys think?

[(*]

The problem is that "suicide bombers" are targeting the wrong people.
Killing innocent people (on both sides) is not going to resolve anything.

[Al Creed]

The Palestinians are terrorists, because Israel recieves the largest amount of US finacial aid in the world.

Frankly, I don't think either side is handling the situation in a manner that could see a fair and equal resolution. However, Irael is the worse of two evils, as it conducts State-endorsed Terrorist acts.

[Dio]

The "Terrorist" title is given to those who oppose U.S. imperialistic expansion. NZLA is marked as a terrorist organization.

[Blackberry]

Originally posted by Hasta Siempre [email protected] 19 2004, 04:11 PM
Why do people continue to use the word terrorists when describing Palestinians? How come when Israeli soldiers shoot and bomb Palestinians killing innocent men, women and children- they are not described as terrorists?
It is simple -- the Palestinian cause is not in the interests of the United States of America. Therefore the term 'terrorism' is applied to Palestinian resistance in order to demonise them.

Israel, on the other hand, serves the interests of the United States of America. The nation is a beacon of 'free market capitalism' in the Middle East. It is well supplied with arms and aid.

Of course, the mass media in any country gives the government of the day plenty of air time. This is how the word 'terrorism' has become a popular term to describe Palestininian resistance.

[Take the Power back]

Because to to the eyes most of our world's citizens, wearing camo and being under some form of leadership means you are doing your job, not commiting murder. And if that camo has a U$ flag on it, then 90% of people won't even question the army's actions. Terrorism is anything that doesn't follow under that jurisdiction(sp?)

[guerrillaradio]

Read and understand. (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=24015)

[Urban Rubble]

It is simple -- the Palestinian cause is not in the interests of the United States of America. Therefore the term 'terrorism' is applied to Palestinian resistance in order to demonise them.

Israel, on the other hand, serves the interests of the United States of America. The nation is a beacon of 'free market capitalism' in the Middle East. It is well supplied with arms and aid.

You guys are real cute with this shit. But you're wrong.

The word "terrorist" and "terrorism" has a very specific meaning. Terrorism is when you attack government property or "soft" (civilian) targets in order to frighten, or "terrorize" a government into doing something. I will give you this, the U.S would never label one of their allies terrorists, at least not while funding them. The bottom line is this, Palestinians who bomb civilian buses are terrorists, whether you agree with it or not. An Israeli helicopter shooting missiles at an apartment complex is horrible, but it isn't terrorism.

[DaCuBaN]

The Palestinians are terrorists, because Israel recieves the largest amount of US finacial aid in the world

a 'terrorist' is simply someone who opposes the US government with force - regardless whether they are a 'state' ruler or just a child with a bomb strapped to his chest.

slightly off topic, if you've never seen it before I strongly recommend playing a wee computer game called Shadow President

You'll never have more fun destroying the world than there :D I ended up getting assasinated after nuking israel (it's the only solution and we all know it :lol: :D ) and signing a peace treaty with the russians, then proceeding to occupy britain and rename it Airstrip One

ahhh memories..... :rolleyes:

[Blackberry]

Originally posted by Urban [email protected] 20 2004, 12:05 PM

It is simple -- the Palestinian cause is not in the interests of the United States of America. Therefore the term 'terrorism' is applied to Palestinian resistance in order to demonise them.

Israel, on the other hand, serves the interests of the United States of America. The nation is a beacon of 'free market capitalism' in the Middle East. It is well supplied with arms and aid.

You guys are real cute with this shit. But you're wrong.

The word "terrorist" and "terrorism" has a very specific meaning. Terrorism is when you attack government property or "soft" (civilian) targets in order to frighten, or "terrorize" a government into doing something.
So I see you want to play the 'definition game'. I can play that.

I can point out from Dictionary.Com that one of the meanings for the word 'terrorism (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=terrorism)' is a Jefferson quote. It says:

"The act of terrorising, or state of being terrorised; a mode of government by terror or intimidation."


The bottom line is this, Palestinians who bomb civilian buses are terrorists, whether you agree with it or not. An Israeli helicopter shooting missiles at an apartment complex is horrible, but it isn't terrorism.

Yes, it is terrorism. Or, more specifically, state terrorism.

[DaCuBaN]

If you can't swallow the Israli's are terrorists line, then you can hardly refute the fact that they ARE the oppressor of the Palestinian peoples.
They have no real legal right to be there in the first place (other than the fact that it was I believe British controlled at the time - I could easily be wrong, and that probably wasn't 'legal' either - and we put them there). So not only are they an oppressing force, but technically they're also an invading one. And the U$A decides it wants to throw it's lot in with them?

I'm pushing it with this I know, but is there some kind of genetic defect over that side of the pond that when you get into politics you just have to back Israel?

oh wait no, they do that over here to :D :P

[RedAnarchist]

One of the reasons America does not criticize Israel is because it needs a satellite state in the Middle East. The American Government nneds Israel, so they act like Sharon's lapdog in the same way Blair lapdogs to them.

Basically, the Israelis control the Americans, who think they control the Israelis.

[Hasta Siempre Comandante]

Urban Rubble, don't use that dictionary shit. You say, "an Israeli helicopter shooting missiles at an apartment complex is horrible, but it isn't terrorism." Why not? Shooting missiles at an apartment complex instills fear into people the same way a suicide bomber does. Surely if Palestinians had had helicopters and missiles they'd use them but they don't have the weapons that Israel has so they resort to things like suicide bombings. If killing innocent people on a bus is terrorism then so is shooting missiles in the direction of innocent people.

[Dune Dx]

but what can anyone do about it? there shouldnt be suicide bombings but Israel shouldnt try and conquer palestine.

is there anything the UN is doing about it?
or EU?

[DaCuBaN]

The United Nations (http://www.middleeastnews.com/unresolutionslist.html) have tried lots of things to help

That's not to say that the European Union (http://www.eubusiness.com/afp/040309183953.95q77m5b) have just sat on their arses about it, though they've never been quite so direct. They've rejected Israel's application for EU membership several times now though, so that's maybe something.

Not enough though, and as far as the UN is concerned, they are simply powerless thanks to yanquis croneyism(sp?)

[MiniOswald]

m gonna have to agree with urban rubble on this one, technically although what the israelis is doing is sick and terrble its not terrorism by definition. In recent times though people perceive the term differently to what it actually means.

[FriedFrog]

I think things have gone too far over there. The right-wing Israeli government just wont give in. When the left wingers were in power in the 90's, the Oslo Accords nearly made peace, but it was ruined by a right wing hardliner Israeli who shot the Prime Minister. As Kofi Annan put it, its just 'Tit for tat violence'.

[Morpheus]

Israel has universal conscription. Hence the entire population is a military target.

When Bin Laden was fighting the Soviets the United States called him a freedom fighter. When he started doing the same to he Americans they called him a terrorist. Terrorist = anything the US government doesn't like. They even call the Earth Liberation Front "terrorist." When CIA proxies detonated a car bomb in Lebanon killing about 80 people (around 1985) the US called it "counter-terrorism." When it's enemies do the same they call it "terrorism."

If Hamas is a terrorist organization, then Israel backs terrorist organizations.

Analysis: Hamas history tied to Israel
By Richard Sale
UPI Terrorism Correspondent
Published 6/18/2002 8:13 PM

In the wake of a suicide bomb attack Tuesday on a crowded Jerusalem city bus that killed 19 people and wounded at least 70 more, the Islamic Resistance Movement, Hamas, took credit for the blast.

Israeli officials called it the deadliest attack in Jerusalem in six years.

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon immediately vowed to fight "Palestinian terror" and summoned his cabinet to decide on a military response to the organization that Sharon had once described as "the deadliest terrorist group that we have ever had to face."

Active in Gaza and the West Bank, Hamas wants to liberate all of Palestine and establish a radical Islamic state in place of Israel. It is has gained notoriety with its assassinations, car bombs and other acts of terrorism.

But Sharon left something out.

Israel and Hamas may currently be locked in deadly combat, but, according to several current and former U.S. intelligence officials, beginning in the late 1970s, Tel Aviv gave direct and indirect financial aid to Hamas over a period of years.

Israel "aided Hamas directly -- the Israelis wanted to use it as a counterbalance to the PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organization)," said Tony Cordesman, Middle East analyst for the Center for Strategic Studies.

Israel's support for Hamas "was a direct attempt to divide and dilute support for a strong, secular PLO by using a competing religious alternative," said a former senior CIA official.

According to documents United Press International obtained from the Israel-based Institute for Counter Terrorism, Hamas evolved from cells of the Muslim Brotherhood, founded in Egypt in 1928. Islamic movements in Israel and Palestine were "weak and dormant" until after the 1967 Six Day War in which Israel scored a stunning victory over its Arab enemies.

After 1967, a great part of the success of the Hamas/Muslim Brotherhood was due to their activities among the refugees of the Gaza Strip. The cornerstone of the Islamic movements success was an impressive social, religious, educational and cultural infrastructure, called Da'wah, that worked to ease the hardship of large numbers of Palestinian refugees, confined to camps, and many who were living on the edge.

"Social influence grew into political influence," first in the Gaza Strip, then on the West Bank, said an administration official who spoke on condition of anonymity.

According to ICT papers, Hamas was legally registered in Israel in 1978 by Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, the movement's spiritual leader, as an Islamic Association by the name Al-Mujamma al Islami, which widened its base of supporters and sympathizers by religious propaganda and social work.

According to U.S. administration officials, funds for the movement came from the oil-producing states and directly and indirectly from Israel. The PLO was secular and leftist and promoted Palestinian nationalism. Hamas wanted to set up a transnational state under the rule of Islam, much like Khomeini's Iran.

What took Israeli leaders by surprise was the way the Islamic movements began to surge after the Iranian revolution, after armed resistance to Israel sprang up in southern Lebanon vis-à-vis the Hezbollah, backed by Iran, these sources said.

"Nothing provides the energy for imitation as much as success," commented one administration expert.

A further factor of Hamas' growth was the fact the PLO moved its base of operations to Beirut in the '80s, leaving the Islamic organization to grow in influence in the Occupied Territories "as the court of last resort," he said.

When the intifada began, Israeli leadership was surprised when Islamic groups began to surge in membership and strength. Hamas immediately grew in numbers and violence. The group had always embraced the doctrine of armed struggle, but the doctrine had not been practiced and Islamic groups had not been subjected to suppression the way groups like Fatah had been, according to U.S. government officials.

But with the triumph of the Khomeini revolution in Iran, with the birth of Iranian-backed Hezbollah terrorism in Lebanon, Hamas began to gain in strength in Gaza and then in the West Bank, relying on terror to resist the Israeli occupation.

Israel was certainly funding the group at that time. One U.S. intelligence source who asked not to be named said that not only was Hamas being funded as a "counterweight" to the PLO, Israeli aid had another purpose: "To help identify and channel towards Israeli agents Hamas members who were dangerous terrorists."

In addition, by infiltrating Hamas, Israeli informers could only listen to debates on policy and identify Hamas members who "were dangerous hard-liners," the official said.

In the end, as Hamas set up a very comprehensive counterintelligence system, many collaborators with Israel were weeded out and shot. Violent acts of terrorism became the central tenet, and Hamas, unlike the PLO, was unwilling to compromise in any way with Israel, refusing to acquiesce in its very existence.

But even then, some in Israel saw some benefits to be had in trying to continue to give Hamas support: "The thinking on the part of some of the right-wing Israeli establishment was that Hamas and the others, if they gained control, would refuse to have any part of the peace process and would torpedo any agreements put in place," said a U.S. government official who asked not to be named.

"Israel would still be the only democracy in the region for the United States to deal with," he said.

All of which disgusts some former U.S. intelligence officials.

"The thing wrong with so many Israeli operations is that they try to be too sexy," said former CIA official Vincent Cannestraro.

According to former State Department counter-terrorism official Larry Johnson, "the Israelis are their own worst enemies when it comes to fighting terrorism."

"The Israelis are like a guy who sets fire to his hair and then tries to put it out by hitting it with a hammer."

"They do more to incite and sustain terrorism than curb it," he said.

Aid to Hamas may have looked clever, "but it was hardly designed to help smooth the waters," he said. "An operation like that gives weight to President George Bush's remark about there being a crisis in education."

Cordesman said that a similar attempt by Egyptian intelligence to fund Egypt's fundamentalists had also come to grief because of "misreading of the complexities."

An Israeli defense official was asked if Israel had given aid to Hamas said, "I am not able to answer that question. I was in Lebanon commanding a unit at the time, besides it is not my field of interest."

Asked to confirm a report by U.S. officials that Brig. Gen. Yithaq Segev, the military governor of Gaza, had told U.S. officials he had helped fund "Islamic movements as a counterweight to the PLO and communists," the official said he could confirm only that he believed Segev had served back in 1986.

The Israeli Embassy press office referred UPI to its Web site when asked to comment.