Japan

[Fidelbrand]

Was just replying a post in another forum and it made me open this topic.....

Recently, that militarist and imperialistic government of Japan has starting military rendtions recently with the excuse that - "If N.Korea keeps building its nuclear weapons, and we see it as a heightening threat to us, we might start a pre-emptive war on DPRK."

More recently, Iraq warriors kidnapped 3 Japaneses and requested the Japanese Government to retreat their armies in Baghdad, otherwise killing of the 3 innocents would be inevitable. The government paid no sympathy despite petitions around the country and relatives crying day and night on TV news.

In WWII, there was the famous killing competition --> Nanjing Massacre (over 300,000 Chinese were slaughtered by samurai swords in Nanjing) and mass scale rapings of Chinese women around China, which the Japanese government devoid the later generations knowledge of knowing the truth by not including these historical catastrophies in the history textbooks of the Japnaese kids.

THE NANJING MASSACRE.
(As noted by the website: Warning: The following document contains detailed descriptions of the Nanjing Massacre in 1937-1938. The brutality shown in the photos is beyond any human imagination.)
http://www.centurychina.com/wiihist/njmassac/
http://www.centurychina.com/wiihist/njmassac/killcity.htm

The most horrible thing i read was: They took the fetus as a toy and played in the streets
http://www.centurychina.com/wiihist/njmassac/nmphoto/fetus.gif
what are your views, comrades?
--------------

Update:

Abe: No new apology for war brothels

OKYO, Japan (AP) -- Japan will not apologize again for its World War II military brothels, even if the U.S. Congress passes a resolution demanding it, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe told parliament Monday.

Abe, elaborating on his denial last week that women were forced to serve as frontline prostitutes, said none of the testimony in hearings last month by the U.S. House of Representatives offered any solid proof of abuse.

"I must say we will not apologize even if there's a resolution," Abe told lawmakers in a lengthy debate, during which he also said he stood by Japan's landmark 1993 apology on the brothels.

Historians say that up to 200,000 women -- mostly from Korea and China -- served in Japanese military brothels throughout Asia in the 1930s and '40s.

Accounts of abuse by the military -- including kidnapping of women and girls for use in the brothels -- have been backed up by witnesses, victims and even former Japanese soldiers.

But prominent Japanese scholars and politicians routinely deny direct military involvement or the use of force in rounding up the women, blaming private contractors for any abuses.

Abe last week sided with the critics, saying that there was no proof that the women were coerced into prostitution, igniting a storm of criticism and protests in South Korea and other countries where the women came from.

On Monday, he elaborated, saying there was no evidence of coercion in the strict sense -- such as kidnapping -- but he acknowledged that brokers procuring women otherwise forced the victims to work as prostitutes. Abe did not explain further.

The U.S. House is considering a nonbinding resolution that would demand a formal acknowledgment and apology from the Japanese government for the brothels.

A House committee heard testimony last month from women who described being taking captive by Japanese authorities and repeatedly raped as so-called "comfort women."

Abe suggested he did not consider such testimony conclusive evidence.

"There was no testimony based that had any proof," he told lawmakers Monday.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press.

[Dune Dx]

Doesnt look like anyone knows much about it.

[International Chairman Mao]

I do know about it!
The massacre not only happened in Nanjing but also happened in many other cities,including 1 city near my hometown.And there is still a museum for memoring the dead people.It was such a horrible thing that there even was a killing match between two japanese soldiers.The result is both of them killed more than 100 chinese civillians.
What did the japan do has already gain the attention of all the Esat Asian countries including China,Korea and some other southern aisa countries.The Japanese goverment even wanted to change the textbook to prove that the invade BRINGING A BOOM RESULT OF AISA! and the Priminister of Japan is totally a clown who used to apologize in the Nanjing massacre museum to all the chinese but delined the invade immediatly when he came back to japan.
But anyway it won't be that easy if japan want to make the history again esp when he faccs a esat asia with great vigilance!

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by International Chairman [email protected] 19 2004, 05:33 AM
I do know about it!
The massacre not only happened in Nanjing but also happened in many other cities,including 1 city near my hometown.And there is still a museum for memoring the dead people.It was such a horrible thing that there even was a killing match between two japanese soldiers.The result is both of them killed more than 100 chinese civillians.
What did the japan do has already gain the attention of all the Esat Asian countries including China,Korea and some other southern aisa countries.The Japanese goverment even wanted to change the textbook to prove that the invade BRINGING A BOOM RESULT OF AISA! and the Priminister of Japan is totally a clown who used to apologize in the Nanjing massacre museum to all the chinese but delined the invade immediatly when he came back to japan.
But anyway it won't be that easy if japan want to make the history again esp when he faccs a esat asia with great vigilance!
But an alliance with the U.S. would certainly be a threat to Asia too~~ You know, the Japanese government is till really military-minded~

[Saint-Just]

There is a stark contrast between the two big powers that were defeated in World War II. Nationalism and Militancy went into reverse in Germany, where people completely rejected the ideas. In Japan this did not happen. A latent nationalism exists in Japan. For example, in Japan there are shops in which no foriegners are allowed in.

Although I would sugges that China has even greater feeling of national chauvanism.

[SittingBull47]

well that picture just made me want to throw up....
I don't know much about this issue but it is interesting. I should read more about it.

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by Chairman [email protected] 19 2004, 12:06 PM
There is a stark contrast between the two big powers that were defeated in World War II. Nationalism and Militancy went into reverse in Germany, where people completely rejected the ideas. In Japan this did not happen. A latent nationalism exists in Japan. For example, in Japan there are shops in which no foriegners are allowed in.

Although I would suggest that China has even greater feeling of national chauvanism.
yes, i agree with what you said. I didn&#39;t know about no entrance for foreigners in some shops in Japan.... so ,it&#39;s just like the "No Jews and Dogs are allowed" during the Nazi era? That&#39;s really a sickening move. <_<

Yes, China did, especially during the Mao era. However, it is my conviction that China is bounded by the entrenchment of Confucianism philosophy which makes the people less thirsty for imperializing other countries, this, also made them vulnerable to outside attacks in the past decades by imperialists. What&#39;s your view, chairman?

[Fidelbrand]

Comrades Dune Dx & SittingBull47,

yes, this holcaust was well covered, it&#39;s kind of unfair for the German Nazis when Japan has done these horrible shits as well.

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by Fidelbrand+Apr 19 2004, 02:58 PM--> (Fidelbrand @ Apr 19 2004, 02:58 PM)
Chairman [email protected] 19 2004, 12:06 PM
There is a stark contrast between the two big powers that were defeated in World War II. Nationalism and Militancy went into reverse in Germany, where people completely rejected the ideas. In Japan this did not happen. A latent nationalism exists in Japan. For example, in Japan there are shops in which no foriegners are allowed in.

Although I would suggest that China has even greater feeling of national chauvanism.
yes, i agree with what you said. I didn&#39;t know about no entrance for foreigners in some shops in Japan.... so ,it&#39;s just like the "No Jews and Dogs are allowed" during the Nazi era? That&#39;s really a sickening move. <_<

Yes, China did, especially during the Mao era. However, it is my conviction that China is bounded by the entrenchment of Confucianism philosophy which makes the people less thirsty for imperializing other countries, this, also made them vulnerable to outside attacks in the past decades by imperialists. What&#39;s your view, chairman? [/b]
I agree somewhat. I think national chauvanism in China has grown. Nowadays government encourages national chauvanism, it is a vehicle for CPC support. But I agree China has never been an imperialist country although it has developed a strong sense of nationhood.

[LuZhiming]

Originally posted by Chairman [email protected] 19 2004, 12:06 PM
But I agree China has never been an imperialist country although it has developed a strong sense of nationhood.
:lol: What else would you occupying Taiwan, Tibet, Inner Mongolia, and Eastern Turkistan, and subjecting the people of those lands to brutal working conditions that benefit China economically? That&#39;s what I would call Imperialism. What would you call invading Vietnam with U.S. arms and backing Pol Pot? What would you call backing UNITA and Mobutu during the civil war in Angola? What were the point of these interventions? To liberate the Cambodians by bringing back Pol Pot and the Vietnamese from their "Communist oppressors?" To liberate the Angolans from the nasty MPLA who wanted to have elections, which couldn&#39;t happen after FNLA gunned down 51 MPLA men and attacked MPLA headquarters? Was it not Imperialism?

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by LuZhiming+Apr 19 2004, 03:46 PM--> (LuZhiming @ Apr 19 2004, 03:46 PM)
Chairman [email protected] 19 2004, 12:06 PM
But I agree China has never been an imperialist country although it has developed a strong sense of nationhood.
:lol: What else would you occupying Taiwan, Tibet, Inner Mongolia, and Eastern Turkistan, and subjecting the people of those lands to brutal working conditions that benefit China economically? That&#39;s what I would call Imperialism. What would you call invading Vietnam with U.S. arms and backing Pol Pot? What would you call backing UNITA and Mobutu during the civil war in Angola? What were the point of these interventions? To liberate the Cambodians by bringing back Pol Pot and the Vietnamese from their "Communist oppressors?" To liberate the Angolans from the nasty MPLA who wanted to have elections, which couldn&#39;t happen after FNLA gunned down 51 MPLA men and attacked MPLA headquarters? Was it not Imperialism? [/b]
China has benefitted those countries economically.Many people inside China are subjected to brutal working conditions nowadays though. I don&#39;t agree that China did not have a claim to those areas. Military action does not necessarily make a country imperialist. Why did it intervene?

[Kurai Tsuki]

I don&#39;t think it&#39;s fair to generalize all of Japan because the ruling party, which the American government aided in winning the election, is being militaristic. Much of what this party does comes out of a will to stay alligned with American policy, regardless of what the Japanese majority might think.

By the way, if you want to talk about the government&#39;s, "imperialistic," habbits then I think the lack of guilt about WW2 and publishing textbooks that portray the occupation of Korea in a positive way might make better examples. The Iraq war and WW2 are so obvious that citing events from it can only serve as a rehash for those who did so much as paid attention in history classes or keep up with news. If you could find some information from an alternative source or a book, rather than the mainstream media and the internet, then I might be interested.

[VukBZ2005]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 11:02 PM
I don&#39;t think it&#39;s fair to generalize all of Japan because the ruling party, which the American government aided in winning the election, is being militaristic. Much of what this party does comes out of a will to stay alligned with American policy, regardless of what the Japanese majority might think.


I Agree. The Liberal Democratic Party is only looking to keep America&#39;s
Support of them. The Japanese Media also plays a role in trying to keep
Japan&#39;s Relationship with the United States. The thing is that Japanese
Politics is Heavily Complicated. So is their Government.

What do you think on this:

Did you Know that Okinawa was Annexed by Japan in 1879 and surpressed
The Okinawan&#39;s Orginal Culture? Right now -- the Okinawan People Do not
know who they are. If They did - They would most likely to be pushing for
Complete independence From Japan and might take over or dismiss the
current US Bases there...But Right now Okinawa is the Poorest of all
47 Japanese Prefectures, 15% are unemployed, Some streets in Okinawa
are even unamed.

I was just wondering what you think on it - as it is an result of Japan&#39;s
"imperialistic" actions in the past.

[Kurai Tsuki]

If the Okinawans feel the need for an independent state and they feel that they can support themselves economically then I would be in favour of such an independence movement. I would like to see how it would develop.

I guess the first thing to be done should be for Okinawans to learn about their own real heritage, if they have not done that already. And then determine whether they can improve their conditions within the current circumstances or whether indpendence from Japan is needed.

I also have the feeling that the U.S. government would be against an independence movement, for fear of losing its bases on the island.

[VukBZ2005]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2004, 12:06 AM
If the Okinawans feel the need for an independent state and they feel that they can support themselves economically then I would be in favour of such an independence movement. I would like to see how it would develop.
I&#39;ve Heard of some People in Okinawa that Support Independence For their Country - i even seen websites that essentialy Advocate Independence
For Okinawa.

[Retro]

America will never allow the loss of bases, especially that close to Japan. There&#39;s no way any war-hungry mongrel dog would ever think of giving up such a thing.

It&#39;s really a sad state of affairs for those people. To not even know who you really are, tis a sad state of affairs.

//

Just throwing this out here, but Japan screwed with a lot of people&#39;s minds. Especially noted during World War II during the fighting on many of the smaller islands.

Do you know how many cultures were wiped out because the Japanese told these people that the Americans would kill them, rape their wives, etc? Instead of surrending and risking this, the people of these smaller islands commited suicide...

Much different than the type of suicide Japanese soldiers did before capture...

[Kurai Tsuki]

Maybe you should start a separate discussion about Okinawa&#39;s past and possibilities for the future. Maybe give some information about how it came to be under Japanese rule. I am of course referring to LinuxMan, who obviously knows the most about it :lol:


I&#39;ve Heard of some People in Okinawa that Support Independence For their Country - i even seen websites that essentialy Advocate Independence
For Okinawa.

[VukBZ2005]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2004, 12:15 AM
Maybe you should start a separate discussion about Okinawa&#39;s past and possibilities for the future. Maybe give some information about how it came to be under Japanese rule. I am of course referring to LinuxMan, who obviously knows the most about it :lol:


I&#39;ve Heard of some People in Okinawa that Support Independence For their Country - i even seen websites that essentialy Advocate Independence
For Okinawa.
Of Course....i&#39;ll be glad to do that.

[Xvall]

You can&#39;t yell at the current Japanese government for something that the former Japanese government did, so don&#39;t talk about the Rape of Nanking of massacres in China when you are criticizing Japan for something it is doing now. This is like me yelling at the current president of Germany for starting World War II.

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by Drake [email protected] 21 2004, 02:35 AM
You can&#39;t yell at the current Japanese government for something that the former Japanese government did, so don&#39;t talk about the Rape of Nanking of massacres in China when you are criticizing Japan for something it is doing now. This is like me yelling at the current president of Germany for starting World War II.
Of course not. This sub-forum is about history, so i mainly give historical facts about what the Japanese at that time did which many of us do not know.

the historical acts of the Japanese government coincides similarly with their past acts, thats why i talked some of their recent moves as well.

P.S. Some updates of this funny government.

3 Japanese citizens were captured by the Iraqi fighters. The government has 1 meeting and decided not to respond to the fighters&#39; request for retreating their army in Iraq. The citizens were upset. The latest development of this story is ------&#62; The Iraqi fighters freed the Japaneses, however, the Jap government request the 3 citizens to pay for all their own medical and airfare expenses used during their government-assisted return to Japan. The reason is that they should not go to dangerous war-zones for travelling.

[Retro]

Wow, so those people go through hell, and then have to pay to get back and everything?...Incredible

[Kurai Tsuki]

Originally posted by Drake [email protected] 21 2004, 02:35 AM
You can&#39;t yell at the current Japanese government for something that the former Japanese government did, so don&#39;t talk about the Rape of Nanking of massacres in China when you are criticizing Japan for something it is doing now. This is like me yelling at the current president of Germany for starting World War II.

Who would have thought that governments could only be criticized by what administration is in power? We can&#39;t criticize the American government, by that standard, for Vietnam, Giron Beach, Chile, bombing Beirut, bombing Libya, funding Saddam or bombing Yugoslavia. It was all done by past administrations. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

But in the case of the Japanese government, I think it just wants to forget about its past war crimes, its war crimes in China do not really apply to the new politicians.

There are only a handful of ultra-conservatives who insist that Japan&#39;s behavior during the invasion of China and Korea wasn&#39;t that bad; some of these are the same ones who still try to say that the emperor is a descendent of the sun goddess.

[Xvall]

Who would have thought that governments could only be criticized by what administration is in power? We can&#39;t criticize the American government, by that standard, for Vietnam, Giron Beach, Chile, bombing Beirut, bombing Libya, funding Saddam or bombing Yugoslavia.

The Empire of Japan died in 1945. The people responsible for massacres commited by the Japanese government at that time were already persecuted and punished for their crimes against humanity. The United States, however, has not died, and no one in the United States government appears to have been punished for these acts, nor have any of them seemed to apologize or even attempt to make up for what they did to those people.


It was all done by past administrations. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Past states. There is an enormous difference. Keep in mind, there is a much smaller gap between Bush Jr. And Bush Sr. than there is for say, Clinton and King George. The days of Togo and Hirohito were not in some past administration, it was a different regime altogether, with an entirely different set of standards, an entirely different set of laws, and an entirely different constitution. Like I said, bashing the current government of Japan for something that happened before the majority of them were even born would be incorrect.

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by Drake [email protected] 24 2004, 01:21 AM
The Empire of Japan died in 1945. The people responsible for massacres commited by the Japanese government at that time were already persecuted and punished for their crimes against humanity. The United States, however, has not died, and no one in the United States government appears to have been punished for these acts, nor have any of them seemed to apologize or even attempt to make up for what they did to those people.
Drake,

The people responsible for massacres commited by the Japanese government at that time were NOT persecuted and punished for their crimes against humanity. This is the fuss about it. The Japanese did not admit that there was a massacre&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; Please note that at that time there was a killing competition going on, who kills most .... is the mighty samurai who has the Japanese fihter&#39;s spirit and was awarded&#33;&#33; How come there will be punishments and persecutions???? please gather more information on this subject, otherwise it would be unfair for the all the anciens in Asia who were raped, killed and humilitated.

The soldiers at that time are getting old now. Some of them came out and admit and apologise for their raping and killing when they are young. they bow in front of the tv and weep. What &#39;s the point in doing that ? Well, because the government has not yet admit that there was a massacre and compensations and punsihments and apologises are not yet realised~~~~~~~ :angry:


the reason i got this topic up is because
1)Japan did not admit there was a massacre.
2)The old people did not get their compnesations........ this has been going on for years.
3)Japan stays imperialist.

Comrade Drake, The empire has not died , trust me. With its excuse for pre-emptive war in DPRK and calousness in saving its citizens in Iraq who were held hostages....... its ambition has never died.

[Fidelbrand]

Prop up this topic because of the massive rallies run on a daily basis in China.

Not sure if comrades have heard of this recently, and would appreciate any opinions~

I&#39;m going to the parade tomorrow.

[bolshevik butcher]

Originally posted by Chairman Mao+Apr 20 2004, 07:49 AM--> (Chairman Mao @ Apr 20 2004, 07:49 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2004, 03:46 PM

Chairman [email protected] 19 2004, 12:06 PM
But I agree China has never been an imperialist country although it has developed a strong sense of nationhood.
:lol: What else would you occupying Taiwan, Tibet, Inner Mongolia, and Eastern Turkistan, and subjecting the people of those lands to brutal working conditions that benefit China economically? That&#39;s what I would call Imperialism. What would you call invading Vietnam with U.S. arms and backing Pol Pot? What would you call backing UNITA and Mobutu during the civil war in Angola? What were the point of these interventions? To liberate the Cambodians by bringing back Pol Pot and the Vietnamese from their "Communist oppressors?" To liberate the Angolans from the nasty MPLA who wanted to have elections, which couldn&#39;t happen after FNLA gunned down 51 MPLA men and attacked MPLA headquarters? Was it not Imperialism?
China has benefitted those countries economically.Many people inside China are subjected to brutal working conditions nowadays though. I don&#39;t agree that China did not have a claim to those areas. Military action does not necessarily make a country imperialist. Why did it intervene? [/b]
Britain economically benifteted india, you could say the u&#036; will economically benifit iraq, this doest not justify an invasion.

[Severian]

Originally posted by Drake [email protected] 20 2004, 07:35 PM
You can&#39;t yell at the current Japanese government for something that the former Japanese government did, so don&#39;t talk about the Rape of Nanking of massacres in China when you are criticizing Japan for something it is doing now. This is like me yelling at the current president of Germany for starting World War II.
I disagree. One, the Japanese government serves the same capitalist class, the same corporations and rich families, as the pre-WWII imperial government did. It is formally headed by the same royal family, and has a national holiday honoring Hirohito, who ordered all the invasions and atrocities. It is served by the same military, renamed the Self-Defense Forces, and by the same bureaucracy. It flies the same flag. It may not be the same "government" in the sense of cabinet and ministers and parliament and so forth, but it&#39;s the same state machine.

All of which is true of Germany as well.

Contrary to Dracoli&#39;s statement, many war criminals were not punished: the chief war criminal, Emperor Hirohito, got off totally. Tojo at his trial testified that Hirohito ordered his crimes; the U.S. prosecutors stopped the trial, took Tojo out of the room for a while, and then brought him back to testify he misspoke and Hirohito knew nothing.

Which illustrates part of the problem with one gang of war criminals prosecuting another.

And the Japanese government is actively trying to whitewash its imperial past, promote Nippon nationalism, and revive its capacity for military intervention.

For example, the prime minister has repeatedly visited the shrine where a number of Japanese officers responsible for these mass murders are buried. And now the government&#39;s come out with these new textbooks, which erase all mention of Korean workers being forced into slave labor in Japan, the sexual enslavement of "comfort women" and some other atrocities committed by imperial Japan.

Fidelbrand is absolutely correct that a revival of Japanese militarism is underway and these historical questions are absolutely tied up with it, for both supporters and opponents of imperialism.

I think Chairman Mao&#39;s wrong, though: there was a strong anti-militarist reaction to Japan&#39;s defeat in WWII, in some ways even more than in Germany. The Japanese government is still having a lot of trouble, domestically, with military intervention overseas, while Germany&#39;s had some relatively strong interventions in the former Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, mabye some other places.

In Japan, there are still people who refuse to salute the flag or sing the national anthem....one of the prime minister&#39;s recent moves was to authorize the firing of teachers who won&#39;t honor these symbols of imperialism....

[Fidelbrand]

Severian, you are really well-informed of the current situation. :blink: ......... http://www.morethanwords.it/studenti/calshop/wink29.gif

[Fidelbrand]

Hmm... just throw out a few pictures from my local newspaper..

Even kids know what imperialism and militarism is:
http://appledaily.atnext.com/images/apple-photos/640pix/20050417/Article_news/17la4p7.jpg
http://appledaily.atnext.com/images/apple-photos/640pix/20050417/Article_news/17la4p12.jpg

100000 people on the street in Shanghai yesterday
http://appledaily.atnext.com/adoinfile/20050417/head_4104.jpg

http://appledaily.atnext.com/images/apple-photos/640pix/20050417/Article_int/17c3p4.jpg

Japanes car got hit by eggs
http://appledaily.atnext.com/images/apple-photos/640pix/20050417/Article_int/17c3p5.jpg

Protesters had their "anti-japanese" stickers stuck on this guard.
http://appledaily.atnext.com/images/apple-photos/640pix/20050417/Article_int/17c3p6.jpg

Burning...
http://appledaily.atnext.com/images/apple-photos/640pix/20050417/Article_news/17la4p8.jpg

http://appledaily.atnext.com/images/apple-photos/640pix/20050417/Article_news/17la2p50.jpg

[Fidelbrand]

Updates 18/4:

Hong Kong&#39;s turn, after various mainland rallies...
http://appledaily.atnext.com/images/apple-photos/640pix/20050418/Article_news/18la1p101.jpg

With English.... ^_^
http://appledaily.atnext.com/images/apple-photos/640pix/20050418/Article_news/18la1p104.jpg

http://appledaily.atnext.com/images/apple-photos/640pix/20050418/Article_news/18la3p1.jpg

"The just punk and the old man"
http://appledaily.atnext.com/images/apple-photos/640pix/20050418/Article_news/18la2p1.jpg

JAPAN, FACE HISTORY...
http://appledaily.atnext.com/images/apple-photos/640pix/20050418/Article_news/18la9p99.jpg

And no.... he&#39;s not Mao
http://appledaily.atnext.com/images/apple-photos/640pix/20050418/Article_news/18la2p14.jpg

[Severian]

There&#39;ve been rallies in south Korea, also.

[bolshevik butcher]

I think targetting normal japanese civillians is wrong. Who knows they oculd be japanese communists that cmpletley disagree with the governments line.

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by Clenched [email protected] 19 2005, 09:54 PM
I think targetting normal japanese civillians is wrong. Who knows they oculd be japanese communists that cmpletley disagree with the governments line.
I agree with you. Hurting lay Japanese people is just foollishly savage.

As for Japanese communists, i&#39;m sure there are some, some.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2005, 09:38 AM
Severian, you are really well-informed of the current situation. :blink: ......... http://www.morethanwords.it/studenti/calshop/wink29.gif
Yeah, impressive man. Almost no-one knows about the "comfort women".

You get a cooky if you knew this one: the Japanese experimented as first in the second world war with silicon breasts. :P

[OleMarxco]

YOU know WHAT?...Fuck Japan and China...bah, I&#39;m sick of this shit&#33; ;)

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2005, 10:56 PM
YOU know WHAT?...Fuck Japan and China...bah, I&#39;m sick of this shit&#33; ;)
elaborate a little, or say what pisses you off.

Next time you might consider saying fuck the working class if you hear too much of their groans and unjustices done upon them? :D Don&#39;t make a clown of yourself.

[OleMarxco]

Bah, it&#39;s not that, it&#39;s that they&#39;re constantly egging for more and more blood, aggression, fights, STOP IT. ARRGGGGHHH&#33; I&#39;ll clown myself as much as I&#39;d like, but I&#39;ll -never- say fuck the working class. They&#39;re the brick-stones of our civilization.

[Marukusu]

"And no.... he&#39;s not Mao"

...are you sure &#39;bout that, comrade Fidelbrand? It HAS to be him, or maybe his clone. :P

Btw, do any of you guys belive it&#39;s gonna be a new war in Asia?
If that&#39;s the case, I hope the chinese red army will kick some imperialist ass&#33;

- Marukusu... damn I regret that name&#33; (Japanese for Marx, from the time when I still thought Japan was cool...).

[Redmau5]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2005, 09:14 PM
If that&#39;s the case, I hope the chinese red army will kick some imperialist ass&#33;


Red Army ? :lol:

I dunno about you but from what i can see there&#39;s very little "red" about China these days, let alone the army.

[Phalanx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2005, 11:35 AM
There&#39;ve been rallies in south Korea, also.
I think those rallies were because Japan is claiming Islands in the East Sea (the U&#036; and Japanese governments call it the Sea of Japan). Will imperialism ever end? I also am suspicious of the Chinese government&#39;s actions, because they could well become just another imperialistic power :(

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2005, 05:55 AM
Bah, it&#39;s not that, it&#39;s that they&#39;re constantly egging for more and more blood, aggression, fights, STOP IT. ARRGGGGHHH&#33; I&#39;ll clown myself as much as I&#39;d like, but I&#39;ll -never- say fuck the working class. They&#39;re the brick-stones of our civilization.
I see your point.

But on the same line of argument, doesn&#39;t the working class needs to participate more, know the system&#39;s problems and air their grievances out, and ultimately, through a revolution, to overthrow the unjust capitalist order.

Similar case we have at hand here,

Millions of people died due to Japanese imperialist miltant invasion, and 1) they deny history through various means and 2) never apologised. Shouldn&#39;t the Chinese rise up and say "I have enough".

Hope you see the analogy here.

It&#39;s all rubbish no matter how correct our ideals are (Leftism, both you ands I as supporters of this concept), if our hearts does not have sympathy.

I&#39;m sure if your country is bullied, I wouldn&#39;t go straight and say "Stop the mess and Peace up&#33;" That&#39;s just frivolous and cold.

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by Chinghis [email protected] 19 2005, 07:48 AM
I think those rallies were because Japan is claiming Islands in the East Sea (the U&#036; and Japanese governments call it the Sea of Japan).
That&#39;s a less agitating cause, but you are correct too.

The main cause is Japan&#39;s eradification of their wartime crimes in the history textbooks for schools.

The wound has been there. The Chinese tried to move on and let bloody bygones be bygones. But the right-wing Japanese keep patching salt on their wounds. OUCH&#33;&#33;&#33;

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2005, 06:14 AM

"And no.... he&#39;s not Mao"

...are you sure &#39;bout that, comrade Fidelbrand? It HAS to be him, or maybe his clone. :P
His long-lost son? :ph34r: (Mao as a desperado...who knows....:P)

[Marukusu]

"I dunno about you but from what i can see there&#39;s very little "red" about China these days, let alone the army."

I don&#39;t know you either, maybe you are colorblind or something, but the main color I see on the flag of China is red...

And you may call the chinese whatever you want, but they still officially call themselves communists.

- Marukusu, the Big Red One.

[red_orchestra]

Japan has always remained an interesting country for me...
It has a long history of Imperialism, and this continues to be a major driving force behind the Shinto religion. I would say, that during the Second World War Japan was a country driven by military conquest at the extreme of commiting genocide. The Japanese justified their actions against Korea and other Asian countries --using their women as sex slaves and men and children as target practise as part of a cleansing operation, similar to the Nazis&#39; SS master plan. Japan still to this day does not recognise their past and ignores putting in information about Japan&#39;s role in the Second World War into their national education material..ie/ textbooks. Its school age population is ignorent of the past.

China and South Korea have always been militant against the Japanese Government because of their arrogent ways. However, many Japanese citizens have been vocal against the current LDP (Liberal Democratic Party) Government. Socialism is also on the rise in the country....while I was in Japan, I noticed the JSP (japanese socialist party) was gaining huge suppport in Osaka and S. Japan, while central Japan was supported by a split between the Komeito (conservative- religious party) and other right-wing parties who are pro-US.

[Redmau5]

They could officially call themselves travelling acrobats, but it doesn&#39;t mean they are. Get my point ??

[Severian]

I think it&#39;s interesting as well that the Chinese government feels threatened by these actions and has tried to limit and discourage them...but has not been able to strongly crack down on them.

I mean, Chinese nationalism has become Beijing&#39;s main way of justifying itself, since few people take its claim to be communist seriously anymore.

So here are all these people pouring into the streets behind Chinese nationalism...and Beijing feels threatened and tries to limit it.

One, of course, they&#39;re simply threatened by any independent mass action.

Two, Chinese naitonalism, as expressed by working people there, still does have a progressive, anti-imperialist dynamic. For all its impressive economic advances, China still is a Third World country exploited by "Western" and Japanese finance capital.

And the PRC government is an intermediary of that exploitation of Chinse working people, and therefore is threatened by working people&#39;s hatred of imperialism.

[Phalanx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2005, 03:00 PM

"I dunno about you but from what i can see there&#39;s very little "red" about China these days, let alone the army."

I don&#39;t know you either, maybe you are colorblind or something, but the main color I see on the flag of China is red...

And you may call the chinese whatever you want, but they still officially call themselves communists.

- Marukusu, the Big Red One.
That&#39;s EXACTLY it&#33; The only red in china&#39;s capitalistic leadership is on their flag. let them think they are communist, but they are only fooling the capitalist schoolbooks of the west.

[bolshevik butcher]

I hate it when people say china&#39;s communist, i&#39;ve been fighting against it at school recently.

[Cokane]

Yeah China&#39;s not communist, just because the Communist Party are the only party does not make them Communists, its just an authoritarian, bureacratic excuse for a Communist country.

[viva le revolution]

This is exactly the kind of shit that nationalism gives birth to.That&#39;s why the true revolutionary has no loyalty with borders but with the working class the world over.

[Marukusu]

Well, I know that China isn&#39;t very communistic at all, but the chinese army is STILL a Red Army and I STILL would like to see that perticular Red Army kick some japanese ass... or at least the japanese government could repay the chinese people in some way for their atrocities before and during WWII.

[Fidelbrand]

Just found this on net.... interesting.
Mao Tse-tung
ON TACTICS AGAINST
JAPANESE IMPERIALISM

Link. (http://marx2mao.phpwebhosting.com/Mao/TAJI35.html)

[KnowYourEnemy]

I am personally offended by this post. I am a Japanese male living in California, born in the US. I have to agree that what the Japanese did was wrong, brutal, and against humanity. However, I would like to point out that I am strongly against my past and I am ashamed of my country. I am ashamed that my country did not apologize when they should have after WWII and that China and especially Korea (for trying to take over their educational system - teaching them Japanese instead of Korean) should have some sort of reconciliation. The Japanese are not very good at acknowledging their mistakes, and they are trying to avoid the same shame that they saw Germans recieve after the Holocaust, not to mention the heavy fine for war crimes. They have such a national pride, they don&#39;t want to disrupt this through teachings of horrid history. They make Japan seem the victim in WWII, and I think that&#39;s ridiculous as well. I read these so called "history books", and low and behold, there isn&#39;t a lot of info regarding Nanking and so forth. I am still very proud of my culture, although not for its military history, but more for its unified strength and so called "nationalism", but not in a bad sense. I think that racism is rampant in Japan, as the Chinese protesters are viewed as evil. My own parents sometime seem racist against Chinese... saying they are not as good as Japanese. I just shake my head and sigh.

I wish I could apologize on behalf of my country, but I&#39;m afraid that the pain of war can never be healed.

Funny though how the Chinese believe the Japanese were "brutal". Remember Tiannamen Square? Where&#39;s their democracy eh? The Chinese government allow this simply because Japan is viewed as a common enemy.

[Noah]

Hey guys,

I just like to say, I saw these pictures when I was 11 and as you could imagine that sickened me. Alot for many weeks, I remember the day 1st saw them, I didn&#39;t want to tell my parents so I went to the toilet and sat there for a few hours thinking. I never told my parents.

Now being 14 years old, I can look at the pictures and they dont really bother me anymore but they are still sick and appalling.

I think that instead of expecting an apology what we should be doing is showing people the information because most people may never see these &#39;unknown &#39;genocides&#39;/ crimes (sorry dont know any other words for them) like the Armenian one.&#39; At least then people would know of the atrocities.

Regarding Tiannamen Square, that was nothing compared to what the Japanese did although it was terrible all the same.

Sorry for the late post, just wanted to share my views.

[Fidelbrand]

Thanks KnowYourEnemy.

[321zero]

Nationalism and Militancy went into reverse in Germany, where people completely rejected the ideas. In Japan this did not happen.

Don&#39;t believe the hype re Germany. Their role in the dismemberment of Yugoslavia is an example of how militarism and nationalism can disguise itself in the guise of &#39;humanitarian&#39; intervention.

For example, Bundeswehr &#39;peacekeepers&#39; in Bosnia graffitied the slogan "We always come back" - a reference to the Nazi occupation fifty year prior.**


I am a Japanese male living in California, born in the US. I have to agree that what the Japanese did was wrong, brutal, and against humanity. However, I would like to point out that I am strongly against my past and I am ashamed of my country.

Mr KnowYourEnemy, I hope you are &#39;ashamed&#39; of your country of birth also - I know I would be of mine if I felt any personal resposibility for it&#39;s crimes against the Tangata Whenua, the Vietnamese, the Koreans, the Cook Islands, Tonga, Samoa...

Can you guess where it is yet?

** see - LIAR&#39;S POKER:The Great Powers, Yugoslavia, and the Wars of the Future
by Michel Collon

[Janus]

Funny though how the Chinese believe the Japanese were "brutal".
Yes, but that can&#39;t be compared at all the Three All&#39;s campaign and the activities of units like Unit 731 and Unit 100 during the Sino-Japanese War.

Fidelbrand, have you ever encountered any photos of Unit 731 and Unit 100&#39;s human experiment activities?

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2006, 05:27 AM

Funny though how the Chinese believe the Japanese were "brutal".
Yes, but that can&#39;t be compared at all the Three All&#39;s campaign and the activities of units like Unit 731 and Unit 100 during the Sino-Japanese War.

Fidelbrand, have you ever encountered any photos of Unit 731 and Unit 100&#39;s human experiment activities?
Janus,

Gott some pics and articles here:

http://www.technologyartist.com/unit_731/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731
http://www.sjwar.org/htm/731.html

http://www.mult-kor.hu/attachments/143/aktualiskep_1068212912_unit731.jpg

http://www.kimsoft.com/unit731.jpg

[che's long lost daughter]

Old thread already but damn it, I have always hated Japan. I know a lot of people are fascinated by that country, by the technology, the seemingly perfect economy...but i will always hate Japan for the ills it did to the people of my country during the second world war. They killed a lot of my people, burned villages, made sex objects out of our women. I support you Fidelbrand. Down with Japanese imperialism&#33; Give me a warning point if you like but I would say over and over FUCK JAPAN&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

You know, Japan really isn&#39;t the country it used to be. Getting nuked twice tends to change attitudes.

[Janus]

I have always hated Japan. I know a lot of people are fascinated by that country, by the technology, the seemingly perfect economy...but i will always hate Japan for the ills it did to the people of my country during the second world war.
It&#39;s one thing to hate Japan and the Japanese people and quite another to hate Japanese imperialism. These nationalist sentiments are not very welcome here on this site.

[che's long lost daughter]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2006, 03:44 PM

It&#39;s one thing to hate Japan and the Japanese people and quite another to hate Japanese imperialism. These nationalist sentiments are not very welcome here on this site.
I know that Janus, I&#39;ve been here at che-lives 2 years before you. I hate Japan altogether. Can you blame me for having sympathy for my people? Is it an offence to hold a grudge against a country who treated your own like shit in the past? You can restrict me if you want but I love my country and I&#39;d be willing to fight for it to death.

I see a lot of members here, including myself, say things against the US for doing shit to a certain country. Is that being nationalist too? Why is it welcome to say shit against the US and be seen as nationalist when you say the same thing about another country?

[Janus]

I hate Japan altogether. Can you blame me for having sympathy for my people?Is it an offence to hold a grudge against a country who treated your own like shit in the past? You can restrict me if you want but I love my country and I&#39;d be willing to fight for it to death.
I know what you are talking about. I, myself, am from China. But like I said, it&#39;s one thing to hate an entire country and its people and quite another to hate that country&#39;s imperialistic policy.


Why is it welcome to say shit against the US and be seen as nationalist when you say the same thing about another country?
They don&#39;t hate the US itself but rather its policies particularly in regards to Iraq,etc. There is a major difference.

[Fidelbrand]

Update:

Abe: No new apology for war brothels

OKYO, Japan (AP) -- Japan will not apologize again for its World War II military brothels, even if the U.S. Congress passes a resolution demanding it, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe told parliament Monday.

Abe, elaborating on his denial last week that women were forced to serve as frontline prostitutes, said none of the testimony in hearings last month by the U.S. House of Representatives offered any solid proof of abuse.

"I must say we will not apologize even if there&#39;s a resolution," Abe told lawmakers in a lengthy debate, during which he also said he stood by Japan&#39;s landmark 1993 apology on the brothels.

Historians say that up to 200,000 women -- mostly from Korea and China -- served in Japanese military brothels throughout Asia in the 1930s and &#39;40s.

Accounts of abuse by the military -- including kidnapping of women and girls for use in the brothels -- have been backed up by witnesses, victims and even former Japanese soldiers.

But prominent Japanese scholars and politicians routinely deny direct military involvement or the use of force in rounding up the women, blaming private contractors for any abuses.

Abe last week sided with the critics, saying that there was no proof that the women were coerced into prostitution, igniting a storm of criticism and protests in South Korea and other countries where the women came from.

On Monday, he elaborated, saying there was no evidence of coercion in the strict sense -- such as kidnapping -- but he acknowledged that brokers procuring women otherwise forced the victims to work as prostitutes. Abe did not explain further.

The U.S. House is considering a nonbinding resolution that would demand a formal acknowledgment and apology from the Japanese government for the brothels.

A House committee heard testimony last month from women who described being taking captive by Japanese authorities and repeatedly raped as so-called "comfort women."

Abe suggested he did not consider such testimony conclusive evidence.

"There was no testimony based that had any proof," he told lawmakers Monday.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press.

[Janus]

I&#39;ve heard that the PM has shifted a bit in his original statements and has promised some kind of new investigation.
Japan promises new probe (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070308/ap_on_re_as/asia_sex_slaves;_ylt=AurcdnQg3.gwcoTzfBoiRz4Bxg8F)
Either way, the fact that certain influential Japanese politicians would defend their nation&#39;s past and coupled with their recent patriotic and militaristic campaigns presents a very troubling picture.

[Comrade_Scott]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2006 10:00 am
You know, Japan really isn&#39;t the country it used to be. Getting nuked twice tends to change attitudes.
people said the same thing about germany after ww1 and hey we all know what happend there. it seems that japan is getting too big for its britches and is going to end up in annother conflict sooner or later.
however they will be crushed because all of asia hates them.... all of asia and rightfully so not even a fucking apology.

[The Grey Blur]

Let&#39;s work on uniting the Chinese and Japanese proleteriat instead of hoping for a hollow bourgeois apology.

[RNK]

Agreed.

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by Permanent [email protected] 12, 2007 12:25 am
Let&#39;s work on uniting the Chinese and Japanese proleteriat instead of hoping for a hollow bourgeois apology.
A little far-fetched, un-related issues we are talking about here..... But...

Yet I think your idea is good.

[Janus]

Let&#39;s work on uniting the Chinese and Japanese proleteriat instead of hoping for a hollow bourgeois apology.
This conflict isn&#39;t simply over a historical event but Japan&#39;s continuing discrimination and racism towards foreigners and particularly towards Chinese, Korean, and other East Asian migrant workers.

http://www.hrdc.net/sahrdc/hrfeatures/HRF39.htm

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2007 07:17 am

Let&#39;s work on uniting the Chinese and Japanese proleteriat instead of hoping for a hollow bourgeois apology.
This conflict isn&#39;t simply over a historical event but Japan&#39;s continuing discrimination and racism towards foreigners and particularly towards Chinese, Korean, and other East Asian migrant workers.

http://www.hrdc.net/sahrdc/hrfeatures/HRF39.htm
Thanks for da link , Janus.

I find the article very objective and useful.