Western mercenaries and

[dopediana]

kind of funny how it takes south african reporters to let us know about this. who here finds it strange and disgusting that we have 18 year old boys in iraq fighting for some illusion that's been impressed upon them their whole lives and earning a miserable penance for it when there are also mercenaries making more each day than my friends working minimum wage do in a whole month? not only that, but the fact that there is no mention made of them. in their value as people--not as fighters or money drains--it is also highly unethical not to report their deaths. not because we don't know where the 1,000 a day is going, that's just secondary in my mind, but because the title mercenary indicates that we had to go out and find them, offer high stakes to get them to fight for the USA and then the deaths aren't being reported? come on..... it's another vulgar ploy, having unofficial soldiers dying unofficially.......

Deaths of Scores of Mercenaries Not Reported (http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/041504E.shtml)
By Robert Fisk and Patrick Cockburn
The Star (South Africa)

Tuesday 13 April 2004

Baghdad - At least 80 foreign mercenaries - security guards recruited from the United States, Europe and South Africa and working for American companies - have been killed in the past eight days in Iraq.

Lieutenant-General Mark Kimmitt admitted on Tuesday that "about 70" American and other Western troops had died during the Iraqi insurgency since April 1 but he made no mention of the mercenaries, apparently fearful that the full total of Western dead would have serious political fallout.

He did not give a figure for Iraqi dead, which, across the country may be as high as 900.

Full total of Western dead would have serious political fallout

At least 18 000 mercenaries, many of them tasked to protect US troops and personnel, are now believed to be in Iraq, some of them earning $1,000 (about R6,300) a day. But their companies rarely acknowledge their losses unless - like the four American murdered and mutilated in Fallujah three weeks ago - their deaths are already public knowledge.

The presence of such large numbers of mercenaries, first publicised in The Independent two weeks ago, was bound to lead to further casualties.

But although many of the heavily armed Western security men are working for the US Department of Defence - and most of them are former Special Forces soldiers - they are not listed as serving military personnel. Their losses can therefore be hidden from public view.

The US authorities in Iraq, however, are aware that more Western mercenaries lost their lives in the past week than occupation soldiers over the past 14 days.

The coalition has sought to rely on foreign contract workers to reduce the number of soldiers it uses as drivers, guards and in other jobs normally carried out by uniformed soldiers.

Often the foreign contract workers are highly paid former soldiers who are armed with automatic weapons, leading to Iraqis viewing all foreign workers as possible mercenaries or spies.

[General A.A.Vlasov]

This is not a secret to me...
yankee call mercenaries - "soliders of fortune".

And do you know the number of their casualties!?

[Misodoctakleidist]

What's really scary is that people are allowed to build private armies.

[dopediana]

oh, totally in agreement... you never know what shit could go down next, no idea of anyone's manpower or firepower, WHERE the people come from, for all you know they could be anyone.

[cebert]

The us government will suffer political consequences for whatever attrocities these mercenaries commit. I'm really surprised the US allows mercenaries into Iraq.

[mysticofthewest]

dont be surprised comrades the u.s.a has done things like this before and even if they are exposed the mercs will deny it because the moneys good and they still want it

[lucid]

Must find any reason to bash US. Must hate US!

[DaCuBaN]

What's really scary is that people are allowed to build private armies

:lol:

Yeah, until you show communist tendencies <_<

[cubist]

lucid *must insert brain and actually think of something useful to say*

we don&#39;t bash bush for fun we don&#39;t hate the US for fun, we aren&#39;t indoctrinated little people here to hate the U.S as if US hating is a desease. and its not just the US the UK and australia and any other country that seeks to prfit out of exploitation of third world countries, having said that america has its finger in all of the pies. or that seeks to take war against

its that what they do makes us hate them, using mercenries to do dirty work, trying to impose american freedom on civvillians of other countries, killing innocents in unnecassary bombing campaigns. imposing trade embargos which kills civillians, encourageing economic growth through global conglamerate deals which actually prevent the true economic developement of the country and eventually stop the country being self sufficient through mono cultivation of farm land.

the term my government makes me hate my country springs to mind.

soldiers of fortune in iraq oh good, but having said that the US is needed in iraq now that they have LIBERATED IT, i just hope that they don&#39;t fuck it up man thats all we can do

[lucid]

Cephas *must pull brain from clouds and take off blinders.

I am sure you will change your ways after you grow up.

[cubist]

Cephas *must pull brain from clouds and take off blinders.

I am sure you will change your ways after you grow up.

lmao how old are you then??

i won&#39;t change my ways aslong as people are being wronged by the Governments and there is sociali injustice i will be unhappy with the state, people grow and become happy with the injustice in there lives what world fuck it man i can&#39;t believe you believe that "grow up" means accept the bullshit and get on with it.

i always thought it meant take an interest in living have your say in democracy make decisions that effect you rather than having them made for you thats what school taught me back when i was 12

[DaCuBaN]

Then I hope he never grows up.

As for &#39;must&#39; hate the US well... they haven&#39;t exactly been very nice to the rest of the world have they? one could mention trade embargo&#39;s, UN veto&#39;s, assasination, invasion and occupation - but that&#39;s not the topic. We&#39;re talking about hating the US for hiring private soldiers to fight a so-called war of liberation. If it all works out in the end you can feed my hat and I&#39;ll webcast the whole thing, but it won&#39;t. Would you be willing to take that bet on? ;)

The other point I&#39;d like to make (and it&#39;s an important one) is that patriotism - glorification of ones own nation (or at least thats my interp.) is rife in the USA. There are FAR too many people over there that wouldn&#39;t hear a word against their country (my brother in law for starters :rolleyes: ) yet you&#39;ve done as much harm in the last on hundred years as old blighty did throughout her true imperial era. Patriots are few and far between on this side of the pond - yet we share similar societies, freedoms etc - and to be honest as you seem to be peddling yourself as one I&#39;d be interested in your views on why american patriotism is so rife... it certainly can&#39;t be because it&#39;s a wonderful country.... you only need to go to Washington and see the pristine white buildings with homeless folks scattered around the foot, look over toward the armed guards and CIA agents and watch the helicopters land. It must be a sad existence for the poor sods at the bottom of your &#39;wonderful&#39; pile

It truly amazes me though that the yanquis army are getting away with hiring mercs though....

[Fidel Castro]

Must find any reason to bash US. Must hate US&#33;

Is it really any surprise that the US is pretty much the most despised nation on earth? The Yanks love to claim that people hate them simply because of their success and prosperity, but this makes little sense because the likes of Japan and Germany are not lothed to the same extent as the States.

Why does the world hate your nation? For the following reasons:

1) Belief that the United States has a right to govern the world.

There would appear to be a common view amoungst American&#39;s that because of their wealth and military might they have a right/duty to put the world to rights. There is also the common view that because the US political system and philosophy has worked so well for them, it is the only acceptable system and therefore must be forced upon the wider world.

2) Selective use of American Ideals

The United States regime has to be the most hypocritical of regimes. The claim made by the US is that liberty and justice are the foundations of democratic society and must be given to all humanity. However the US has no problems with ignoring their own ideology when it suits their economic/political interests. Successive US regimes have supported numerous dictators for different reasons. Saddam Hussein, Fulgencio Batista, Pol Pot and Augusto Pinochet are just a few that have been at one time supported economically or militarily by the US, despite the fact that these characters went against the American ideal.

3)Exploitation of World Resources

The United States has oil reserves, however rather than use up native stocks they are more willing to shed blood to get their hands on foreign stocks, especially in the middle east. A close family friend of mine recalled recently this story from her husband who attended a meeting between oil firms, "The United States delegation began a discussion over difficulty in negotiations with Iraq over oil, one US scientist commented that "we&#39;ll just bomb them until they agree to our terms".

4)Lack of toleration for opposing ideals

Remember the time when those suspected of supporting communism were witchhunted? Have you not heard to those held without charge or trial at Guantanamo Bay?

[lucid]

Old enough to take care of myself and family without hating everything around me.


If capitalism is so bad and the US is so evil then why don&#39;t you do something about it? It&#39;s because you can&#39;t do shit. Your so pathetic that you will side with terrorists instead of standing by the US.

[lucid]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2004, 03:31 PM
Remember the time when those suspected of supporting communism were witchhunted? Have you not heard to those held without charge or trial at Guantanamo Bay?
They are POW&#39;s. They will be dealt with at the appropriate time. This is not a conventional war so conventional rules will not work.

Do you not remember all the shit the taliban was doing before they were removed from power? The fact that you defend them just proves that your nothing but a radical anti-american POS that will always bash us no matter what we do.

[Fidel Castro]

Your so pathetic that you will side with terrorists instead of standing by the US.

When did I say I sided with terrorists? I have never claimed to support Islamic Extremism so your argument here is total bullshit. I take it you have the same mentality as many of your Imperialistic Comrades that those who refuse to stand by you must then be on the side of terrorism? Pathetic.


They are POW&#39;s

Why then does your government refuse to grant them POW status? This is nothing but crap that you use to justify the illegal holding of persons without charge or trial. What your government is doing at Guantanamo Bay is a violation of international law, end of story.


This is not a conventional war so conventional rules will not work.

Another pathetic attempt to excuse United States violations of human rights, international law and United Nations resolutions.


Do you not remember all the shit the taliban was doing before they were removed from power?

Do you remember the fact that your government could not give a shit what the Taliban were doing for long enough? If the Taliban had agreed to allow the US to enter Afghanistan then the Taliban would still be in power today.


The fact that you defend them just proves that your nothing but a radical anti-american POS that will always bash us no matter what we do.

Please quote where I defended the Taliban regime? It is nothing new to see a Bushite fabricate evidence to defend their postition. I have no hatred for the people of the United States, some of whom I have met and got on well with actually. I do however have no respect for the American administration which has proved itself past and present to be hypocritical, two-faced and decietful.

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2004, 03:57 PM
Old enough to take care of myself and family without hating everything around me.


If capitalism is so bad and the US is so evil then why don&#39;t you do something about it? It&#39;s because you can&#39;t do shit. Your so pathetic that you will side with terrorists instead of standing by the US.
A socialist does not hate everything around them unconditionally, it is not rational to do so. Neither is it rational to like everything around oneself. It is also not rational to have have unconditional support for the policies and values of the government of one&#39;s homeland.

Siding with terroritsts is, to some extent, rational if one believes the &#39;U.S. is so evil&#39;. These terrorists seek to remove the U.S. influence on certain parts of the world. If they succeed then an individual who hates the U.S. system will have seen the realisation of an important part of their goal. Of course they must consider if these terrorists will have success and how they will bring about their aims and so on.

[cubist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2004, 03:57 PM
Old enough to take care of myself and family without hating everything around me.


If capitalism is so bad and the US is so evil then why don&#39;t you do something about it? It&#39;s because you can&#39;t do shit. Your so pathetic that you will side with terrorists instead of standing by the US.
funny that i hate terrorists, how do you protect your family by trusting bush?muhahahaha.

the proberbility of the US getting another terrorist attack has risen due to a rise in muslims hating you due to invasions of iraq, afghan etc,

i in no way ever side with terrorists i sympaphise with there struggle against US imperialism but i think anyone who kills innocent civillians is a FUCKING WANKER which includes President GEORGE "IDIOT SON OF AN ASSHOLE" BUSH Jr and isreal america the UK i hate anyone willing to sacrifice human life for power religion and money.

i don&#39;t hate americans i just hate your AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE, bomb now hope you used the right map and apologise later.

in god we trust my ass your nation trusts its imaginary friend and does things for him, in islam its called jihad but america calls it terrorism so what does that make george bush oh wait i know a terroist.

i do do things about it i have protested against iraq been to the jubilee 2000 protest to clear the debt of third world countries, you (i presume your not stupid ) and i both know that communism can not be imposed with capitalism in the state its in, comunist countries can&#39;t survive aslong as america places trade embargos on them and as long as other countries aren&#39;t communist.

but it doesn&#39;t stop me from being humane, unlike you ya selfish bastard who seeks to protect your family and your hard earned wealth if ya have any and don&#39;t care taht people in the world are dieing to put money in your economy.

[mysticofthewest]

lucid I say bush is the terrorist he is invading the soverinty of other nations under bs pretexts, he opresses homosexuals and tries to force his christan right polices on eveyone else.

[MiniOswald]

jesus ladies put the claws away, here you want some reasons to hate the U.S take a looksie at this

CIA jobs (http://mirrors.korpios.org/resurgent/CIAtimeline.html)

[dopediana]

Originally posted by lucid+Apr 18 2004, 04:02 PM--> (lucid &#064; Apr 18 2004, 04:02 PM)
[email protected] 18 2004, 03:31 PM
Remember the time when those suspected of supporting communism were witchhunted? Have you not heard to those held without charge or trial at Guantanamo Bay?
They are POW&#39;s. They will be dealt with at the appropriate time. This is not a conventional war so conventional rules will not work.
[/b]
the USA hasn&#39;t given them POW status. they called them possible enemy combatants specifying they are NOT POWs. i believe guerrillaradio linked us to an excellent article in the newswire forum about three guantanamo bay prisoners. the requisites for ending up in guantanamo bay are being of middle eastern descent and political activism. the justice system is seriously corrupt and i can&#39;t believe you&#39;re defending it by saying that this is "not a conventional war so conventional rules will not work." first off, conventional rules have never been employed in warfare, secondly, there never was a conventional war to begin with.

basically you&#39;re saying "i don&#39;t give a flying fuck whether you&#39;re innocent or not, we&#39;ll just hold you here like the paranoid control freaks that we are and you can pray to allah on little straw mats that maybe you&#39;ll get out someday. but we&#39;d much rather cap you here and now to look like we&#39;ve accomplished something."