Asian immigrants in the United States..

[Dataika]

Many capitalists I know are now pulling out the old "well Asians did it and they had as many "breaks" as African Americans, hispanics and native americans. Thus all minorities can break their cycle but a lot of them are lazy."

Now, I said this guy who said this sounded more racist than anything but he accuses me of being racist because I said the vast majority of the poor consist of minorities who were slapped down for so long that it is VERY HARD if not IMPOSSIBLE to escape from poverty. He claimed: I was "blaming the system" and stating that Asians can do it but other minorities cannot because of the "system." I'm wondering how all of you would respond to this argument?

To put it shortly; how do you respond to someone who claims that because Asians can do it anyone can?

[Saint-Just]

Asians have not suffered the same kind of discrimination as African-Americans or Native Indians. Thats what I learnt from studying civil rights.

One is blatently a big racist if they claim that Asians can do it because they are ethnically superior to African Americans.

On what grounds does he accuse you of being racist? Is there any logic to that at all?

[Dio]

I've read this 3 times... and I don't know if it's me or not, but what Dataika wrote makes no sense... to me.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Simply more apologism and excuse making.

[Invader Zim]

Tell him he's a dumb ass and to shut the god damn hell up.

All this bullshit is just rubbish they use to get away with trying not to pay them a fair wage, because a small minority of african-americans have managed it. Well to quote the king of the un-PC and often extreamly rightwing, Maddox: -


---------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 02:00:01 -0800
From: Rian Alden
To: [email protected]

Your a fuckin idiot. If you hate how Americans are pissed about
Illegal Mexicans or any others taking our jobs, then why don't you take
your loud mouthed, appeasing ass down to Mexico and fight the good fight
with those Wetbacks? Oh, I'm sorry, That was Racist, but I guess I am,
so all those Spics, Gooks, Nips, Russians, Sand-Niggers, and any other
fuckin foreigners come here and decide to take our job for less money
even though they don't belong here, they can kiss my ass and lick my
balls. And just for you, I will leave a spot right in the middle and
forget to wipe ya dumb fuck.


It's time to deduce the obvious conclusion with Professor Maddox:


http://www.maddox.xmission.com/cluetrain1.gif
http://www.maddox.xmission.com/cluetrain2.gif
http://www.maddox.xmission.com/cluetrain3.gif
http://www.maddox.xmission.com/cluetrain4.gif


QED, *****.

I don't understand how anyone can disagree with my position on illegal immigrants. Do I have to spoon feed the conclusion to you retards? It's obvious that if you force companies like WalMart to pay illegal immigrants the same wage as Americans, then they have no incentive to hire them over citizens. Even you racist pieces of shit can agree.

http://www.maddox.xmission.com/hatemail.cgi?p=1#CLUETRAIN

---------------------------------


Sometimes even maddox makes some sense.

[NYC4Ever]

There are also alot of whites living below the poverty line. Come out here to East Texas and find out. I know this doesnt excuse the minority population also being below the poverty line but then why is Oprah Winfrey (an african american woman) the richest single woman in America? Is she someone who beat the system or something? Or what about cubans who vote Republican in the majority. Most of the problems within the minority community are due to rich white liberal politicians that pander promises for votes.

[Nickademus]

Originally posted by Chairman [email protected] 20 2004, 02:22 PM
Asians have not suffered the same kind of discrimination as African-Americans or Native Indians. Thats what I learnt from studying civil rights.


i have to disagree there. i live on the west coast of canada and there is a very very large asian population here. the racism very much exists. and if you go farther up north you know that chinese people and natives were in the same boat a lot of the time with regards to the discrimination.

i disagree that they haven't faced racism on the same level. many in my family are extremely racist against asians more so than native peoples or even blacks. i mean yes there was no asian slavery thing in north america and asians weren't booted off their land by europeans ... but its still there.

and yeah i can't figure out exactly what the first post in this thread means either. perhaps some clarity would be good.

cheers

[SittingBull47]

The maddox thing was brilliant. I read that numerous times before and have a firm picture of that racist in my head. Anyway, asians have been discriminated against, but nothing like the Native Americans and African Americans. I mean, we fucking took their land and made them pay for it. But not only did americans (FAKE americans as opposed to native americans) steal land, they stole their pride, culture, and future. Ironic how people can come here for the first time and fit in, but the people that have been here for thousands of years are looked as 2nd class citizens.

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2004, 03:01 AM
i have to disagree there. i live on the west coast of canada and there is a very very large asian population here. the racism very much exists. and if you go farther up north you know that chinese people and natives were in the same boat a lot of the time with regards to the discrimination.

i disagree that they haven't faced racism on the same level. many in my family are extremely racist against asians more so than native peoples or even blacks. i mean yes there was no asian slavery thing in north america and asians weren't booted off their land by europeans ... but its still there.

and yeah i can't figure out exactly what the first post in this thread means either. perhaps some clarity would be good.

cheers
Thats not my opinion. But, from reading on African-American civil rights, the main bourgeois historians, that is the opinion I see.

But would you like to offer an opinion as to why Asians have apparently done better than African-Americans and Natives.

But maybe it is different in Canada than in America. For example, in Britain most racism exists against people from Central Asia rather than African's or East Asians.

[Dataika]

Okay, allow me to elaborate a little bit. (After re-reading the post, I figured out it is somewhat confusing :D )

Basically the context of the debate was poor people. We were discussing if poor people are poor because "it's all their fault and they are stupid and lazy." One of the reasons I gave for poverty was minority descrimination. This was obvious because of the lack of economic freedom granted to other "inferior" races. So minorities would naturally make up most of the poor (not to say there ARE NO WHITE PEOPLE, just that there isn't as MUCH as minorities).

He then proceeded to claim that Asians have reached economic parity with whites. He asked why couldn't African Americans, Hispanics, and Native Americans (who he proceeded to call "lazy people" that do "nothing but smoke and drink all day," just to give you some background racist remarks he's made) do it too?

He then claimed that he is not racist because he doesn't think social conditions make people poor. He stated that he does not think social conditions of minorities have any effect on the "insurmountable" odds that faces them. He then stated that I WAS RACIST because I was stating that it IS impossible for some African Americans, Hispanics and Native Americans.

So I was telling him that his remarks were racist as the statement "if Asians can do it, why can't African Americans?" is blatantly racist and supposing that Asians are somehow surperior as a natural backdrop of such a question.

I was wondering what your opinions are on the argument he presented that "If Asians can do it, WHY CAN'T ALL MINORITIES?"

PS... It seems like more and more capitalists are using Asians as a way to escape the "minority" question.

[Y2A]

It's because asians are naturally superior to us.

[Dataika]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 11:06 PM
There are also alot of whites living below the poverty line. Come out here to East Texas and find out.
Well, I know that as well. The numbers are in the 8% of whites while in the 20%s of Hispanics and African Americans.


Oprah Winfrey (an african american woman) the richest single woman in America?

As a poster I saw before said: "She's the exception, not the rule."


Or what about cubans who vote Republican in the majority.

Most of them are former Batista supporters (you know, the dictator who had horrible working conditions for its workers?). They hate Castro (because they were rich landowners) and they like the trade embargo. Not saying that that's ALL THE PEOPLE, but it is a majority of them.


Most of the problems within the minority community are due to rich white liberal politicians that pander promises for votes.

Like Rich White Republicans don't pander promises to minorities for votes? Please. It is true that the liberal politicans only come around when they need votes but the same is said of Republicans (if they even decide to stop their bullet proof limos in thepoor areas).

[Nickademus]

Originally posted by Chairman [email protected] 21 2004, 06:07 AM
Thats not my opinion. But, from reading on African-American civil rights, the main bourgeois historians, that is the opinion I see.

But would you like to offer an opinion as to why Asians have apparently done better than African-Americans and Natives.

But maybe it is different in Canada than in North America. For example, in Britain most racism exists against people from Central Asia rather than African's or East Asians.
one. consider the sources.... ever heard of the chinese internment camps here in canada during world war ii (? i may have my wars confused at the moment)??????

why have asians done better than african-americans and natives ... i can offer one suggestion ... and i could totally be in left field but hey that's where i usually am. Community. Asians tend to stick to their communities and work together. Aboriginal peoples and african-americans have had their communities and their families torn apart. african-americans were parted from their families through slavery. aboriginal communities were torn apart by residential schools, fighting over what little resources the gov'ts would give them, and fighting amongst nations for what little land they had left.

and btw canada is in north america ... in fact its the majority of north america. but i would say that the group most frequently targeted by racism here in canada is likely aboriginal peoples ... hell i even face racism because my best friend, many of my friends, and many of my ex's have been aboriginal, even from my own family.

[pandora]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2004, 06:02 AM
Community. Asians tend to stick to their communities and work together. Aboriginal peoples and african-americans have had their communities and their families torn apart. african-americans were parted from their families through slavery. aboriginal communities were torn apart by residential schools, fighting over what little resources the gov'ts would give them, and fighting amongst nations for what little land they had left.


I agree, the language and culture "barrier" also insulates and creates a specialness that can help young people to stay in the social group, or community.

Also as far as recent immigrants are concerned, Canada for example wasn't letting anyone in who didn't have $100,000 in liquid assets!

NOW THAT WOULDN"T MAKE A DIFFERENCE
ie. many of the poor were left behind. Also to bring a boy with mental retardation the Canadian government demanded proof of $500,000 for his car by the family, hum.

So no one with any defects supposed or imagined is allowed in either. As far as more recent immigrants in the US.
a.) Families tend to work to get each other over once one member starts a buisness, and due to the better family structure, they often help one another out by starting new members in their buisness while they go to school to pursue other interests.
b.) Once one member has capital they have ethics inside the community that encourage gulp! sharing.
Not a very American concept, so members will co-sign on each others loans to start buisnesses and get kids in college or get other members houses.
Among other ethnic groups especially whites, parents won't even cosign on their kids college loans, not that college isn't over priced.
c.) THE ELDERLY are appreciated, for Chinese immigrants Confuscian principals towards the elderly and family enables elderly to have positions of respect and they in turn care for the grandchildren while the parents work.
MEAnwhile other communities, especially Whites are paying $800+++ for childcare a month.
New US and Canadian society for the dominant pedagogy sucks. Sharing and Community is cool dude, isn't that the point.

[Eastside Revolt]

I love how all asian people must be doing well because Chinese, Japanese, and Korean poeple are. I haven't noticed Vietnamese people doing so well, or even Philllipinos.

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by Nickademus+Apr 22 2004, 06:02 AM--> (Nickademus @ Apr 22 2004, 06:02 AM)
Chairman [email protected] 21 2004, 06:07 AM
Thats not my opinion. But, from reading on African-American civil rights, the main bourgeois historians, that is the opinion I see.

But would you like to offer an opinion as to why Asians have apparently done better than African-Americans and Natives.

But maybe it is different in Canada than in North America. For example, in Britain most racism exists against people from Central Asia rather than African's or East Asians.
one. consider the sources.... ever heard of the chinese internment camps here in canada during world war ii (? i may have my wars confused at the moment)??????

why have asians done better than african-americans and natives ... i can offer one suggestion ... and i could totally be in left field but hey that's where i usually am. Community. Asians tend to stick to their communities and work together. Aboriginal peoples and african-americans have had their communities and their families torn apart. african-americans were parted from their families through slavery. aboriginal communities were torn apart by residential schools, fighting over what little resources the gov'ts would give them, and fighting amongst nations for what little land they had left.

and btw canada is in north america ... in fact its the majority of north america. but i would say that the group most frequently targeted by racism here in canada is likely aboriginal peoples ... hell i even face racism because my best friend, many of my friends, and many of my ex's have been aboriginal, even from my own family. [/b]
Yes, you may be right about communit.

I can't believe I wrote that Canada was distinct from North America. I am well aware of that, I must have made a mistake. I have been to Canada and America, I know as well that it is hte majority of North America although the population is a tenth.

I have would have thought there would be Japanese internment camps in both the U.S. and Canada in WWII, but not Chinese internment camps since the Chinese were fighting the Japanese.

[Eastside Revolt]

Actually yes it was just Japanese (At least in Vancouve) internment camps.

Asians, depending on what type have been treated differently here. It seems like Philipinos and Dark asians kind of get throwm in a lower caste.
As Far as WW2 is concerned, the Japanese canadians got thrown into internment camps. When they came back they were forced to live were the PNE (pacific national exhibition) currently is. They actually kind of thrived there but there was still, loads of racism between them and the Chinese.

[Nickademus]

Originally posted by Chairman [email protected] 22 2004, 03:40 AM
I have would have thought there would be Japanese internment camps in both the U.S. and Canada in WWII, but not Chinese internment camps since the Chinese were fighting the Japanese.
your right it was japanese .. i was a wee bit drunk when i made that post. my apologies.


excellent points pandora...things i completely forgot about ... canada's wonderful immigration laws ...one of the toughest countries in the world to get into.