sinn fein's growth - sinn feins rapid growth.

[pastradamus]

I would like tosay that I think Sinn feins growth in politics will take a huge increase in the next few years,this is coz of the large amount of Irish youth in favour of them. your view's

[peaccenicked]

I think it depends on how much the peace process
is felt to be depended on strong support for sinn fein.
It seems to be their moment and I think they will grow,
until they become redundant to the needs of Irish unity
and until the socialist movement takes on the remaining tasks of normalising working class unity in a European context.

[Kez]

surely the more havoc in ireland, the more popular the sinn fein is?

comrade kamo

[Anonymous]

More havoc?
Yeah this gets them support from die-hard sinn fein supporters and commys,socialists and that but if they were to takr power in Eire now they would have to take more involvment in the peace process, thats what the 30-50 age group want and they have the majority of the vote but as Pastrdamus said they will get more support because they are popular with the 13-18 age group which will have the right to vote in the next 5+ years.

Eire 31 Fuck Dublin!!!

[Kez]

what do you mean fuck dublin?

[pastradamus]

ah yeah,I know irishguevara32 well comrad tavareeshkamo,He is form Cork & in Cork we dont like Dublin cuz we think of ourselves as being the real capital.In Cork we dont get on very well with other counties espically our neighbours.Thats why you can buy peoples republic of Cork t-shirts! they're fucking class commie things!

[revolutionary spirit]

other counties such as those bastards from Kerry

[Kez]

anyone who calls derry londonderry needs to have their asses slapped
:)

is it not true that churchill sed to ireland, they can have ireland united to control from dublin, as long as they join with allies in ww2?

biggest mistake ireland ever made was not to agree
then no more conflict

comrade kamo

[pastradamus]

Comrade kamo,That was a direct in your face lie.the fact is that churchill promise was bullshit from the word go.
& the reason being that 10,000 men of Irish birth fought for Britain in that war and what happened at the end of the day? they screwed us!

[revolutionary spirit]

it was 40,000

[Kez]

so, u believe there was never a chance of gaining full independace, if they fought against fascists?

comrade kamo

[Anonymous]

There will be a united ireland soon if not from the current governments then it will be when i come into power. Oh yes ME!

[pastradamus]

40,000 shit! I heard it was only 10,000.thanx for those figures comrade.thats 3 times the size of the current Irish army.

[pastradamus]

Ray we had plans for that! Don't tell everyone or you'll ruin the element of surprize!

[Supermodel]

Londonderry used to be a very pretty city before....Ouch!!! Ouch!!! Ouch!!! I haven't been smacked that hard in a long time!!!!

What we need in Ireland is more political parties. Then everyone in the whole nation will be a politician and the Irish government can pay all their paychecks and sell the hot air as a power source.

Jerry Adams is a warmonger who wants nothing short of ethnic cleansing in Ireland. Way to go Jerry (not).

Message to the girls and boy of Ireland....do what your forebears have done....get a summer job on the Jersey Shore and marry an American....get out while you still can....

[pastradamus]

HEY you stupid *****, listen if you were Irish you'd understand our views or even if you were'nt you should know about the difference between gaining independence & ethnic cleansing.The people of the Republic have a whole different way of life,we are richer & socialy better off,but we still get pissed off by the britt's pissing all over our caothlic brothers in the north.
Ireland & the rest of Europe is not as cosmopolitian as the U.S,so life is DIFFERENT! I dont mind the britt's but I hate racist ones like in the north.
Why don't you check up on your Irish history,try watching the bloddy sunday film it might help you see Jerry Adams point of view.

[pastradamus]

What are you saying about the Jersey shore,We were forced there by famine! This nation is now more devoloped & im sure your racist views can be appricated by the more W.A.S.P favourable websites.

[Supermodel]

Pastra, take a prozac for God's sake!!!

I am not a *****. I am a Diva.

You have no idea what nationality I am, nor how much of my life I spent in Ireland. Long enough to know what Jerry Adams is all about without watching a movie I assure you.

Irish were forced to Boston and New York by famine, to the Jersey shore by beach life and easy women in the 1980's. Been there, done that.

The Brits you refer to are Northern Irish people who belong in thier homeland. Sinn Fein's policies are nothing short of ethnic cleaning. There is no Britain to get out of Ireland, only the protestant/hugenot tribe.

Pose this question to Jerry: why does he not just go ahead with his policies in the South? Why wrap the whole argument around a hundred square miles of turf?

Surely when Sinn Fen is the ruling successful democratic power in the South, will the people of the North e convinced to make a peaceful transition to a united Ireland. Or maybe not.

[peaccenicked]

Irish history a summary for those who have not the foggiest.
The War In Ireland
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


British Occupation

Until 1922 Ireland as a whole was occupied by and ruled from Britain. This occupation began hundreds of years before but from the end of the 18th century a distinct Irish nationalism began to evolve. A series of rebellions broke out as well as agitation to alleviate the worst consequences of imperialist exploitation. This exploitation could be devastating as the Irish Famine or Great Hunger demonstrated. Following a rebellion in Easter 1916 and from 1918 and the War of Independence the country was partitioned. Here's the comments of the famous US anarchist Alexander Berkman on the rising and its aftermath. The War of Independence is portrayed in Irish history in nationalist terms but significant class struggle broke out particularly in Munster . A related event from that period was when the Trades Council declared a general strike in Limerick and took over the running of the city. This became known as the Limerick Soviet.

Partition brought with it a carnival of reaction as the northern state became a highly sectarian state in which Catholics were treated as second class citizens as part of the state ideology. The southern state in turn developed into a Catholic version of the north, going as far as to give the Catholic church a special place in the constitution. In the north the working class was split along sectarian lines and sectarian riots resulted in workers living in sharply segregated communities. Despite this there were instances of workers coming together around specific issues, in 1933 for instance when the Falls and Shankill rioted together, an event remembered by one activist in 1982. Sometimes this unity reached an advanced stage as with the Republican Congress , at other times it soon fell victim to a fresh wave of bigotry whipped up by the bosses.

By the end of the 1960's minor reforms had resulted in a small but growing Catholic middle class. This along with the inspiration of similar movements internationally gave rise to the Civil Rights Movement. The Civil rights movement was battened off the streets by the B-specials and finally shot off the streets by the British army when 14 unarmed marchers were deliberately shot dead by the Parachute regiment on Bloody Sunday, 1972. Alongside this Britain arrested and jailed without trail over 3,000 people it considered to be responsible for the upsurge (all nationalists or socialists). This led to the nationalists to look to the traditional politics of the nationalist armed struggle and for the next 25 years war waged between Republican groups on one hand and a combination of the RUC (police), British army and Loyalist death squads [often armed and informed by one or the other wing of the British state] on the other.

[CommieBastard]

History and nations have no consequence.

What is all this shit being tallied around about homelands?
homelands?
is there hy place where people of certain groups are deserving of a home?
you might as well say blacks back to africe as britain out of ireland.
people are where they are, it doesnt matter why, because the only type of people are people, differences of religion or ethnicity have NO consequence.

Nationalism + Socialism = National Socialism, a.k.a Nazism.

Equality and jobs for some, the rest we care not for, that is the message the irish nationalists give, and it is their true opinion too.

The only cause that the irish should be concerned with is not getting the 'British' (because ofcourse, this IS a homogenous group, yeah right...) out of the northern counties, the cause you should be concerned with is getting the rule of capitalists out of the whole of ireland, and in fact the whole of the world.

Fight for socialism everywhere, not for capitalism division and racism in ireland.

[peaccenicked]

This is the position of the SSP, I quote to show
commiebastard that we did not come up the clyde in a
paddle boat, nor do we wish to impose an abstract position that merely reflects our high ideals


Democracy and the national question: The national question is one of political democracy - national "self-determination" means that a nation may democratically decide, without being threatened with blockade or invasion, whether to form a separate state or to remain in a political union with another nation. The Marxist commitment to international working-class unity implies consistent support for the right of all nations to self-determination.

The notion of "anti-imperialism" should mean the same thing, but in practice it has not. Some socialists divided the world into an imperialist and an anti-imperialist camp. The anti-imperialist camp supposedly included all Stalinist states. Resistance by the peoples of Eastern Europe and by the Afghans to the imperialism of the former USSR was then opposed on the grounds that it would weaken the struggle against imperialism. We reject that approach.

The SSP should adopt a position on Ireland based upon the Bolshevik tradition of consistent democracy in national questions. We believe that the only solution to the British-Irish conflict is a free united Ireland which recognises as much regional autonomy for the distinct Protestant Irish community as is compatible with the right to self-determination of the Irish-majority Gaelic-Catholic people. In practice this means some sort of federal Ireland.

[CommieBastard]

and in practice it represents a recognition of the existence of nations as a particular and definable unit, which is sadly not the case. Nations are notoriously tricky to define, the reason? because they are indefinable inventions.
You talk of the right to self-determination of nations, a concept invented by 18th century english liberals, the same people who thought workhouses and an unrestricted free market were a good idea.
The reason this is flawed, is that it accepts nations as a homogenous unit, but this simply doesnt exist, especially in an increasingly globalised world.

A nation may have been definable thousands of years ago, when certain people were restricted to certain areas, but there is far too much intermingling and movement of people, and a single national unit cannot be identified, and if it canot be identified, how can it have self-determination?
the only race is the human race, and the only justifiable nation is the universal nation which accepts all human beings as being in the same boat. We cannot fight for greater equalities and freedoms while we are too busy fighting our brothers simply because they happen to live over an invented border. We must break these borders, yes, but not to the end of creating a new moved boundary, but to the end of unification with all peoples.

[CommieBastard]

In short, unify everyone, and give each person their own individual self-determination, empower them with the freedom of thought, and let them decide how they run their life.

[peaccenicked]

http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/work...s/1914/self-det (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1914/self-det)
Those who live in the nation of the oppressor have a duty to support the nation of the oppressed.

[pastradamus]

Sorry 4 calling u a *****,I went a bit over the top there,you want my view on ethnic cleansing.
A few Hundread years ago when the brittish invaded they had the idea of "If we cant kill em off we'll bred um off",so what they did was give English & scottish protestant's our land,we were unable to stop them cuz our warlords such as the O'Neill had fled to Italy,France & Spain.The idea of the plantations was to "ethnicly cleanse" the caothlic majority into a minority which was unable to fight back successfully.

"I dont hate them for their race,or the way they try to destroy us or even the way they force us into poverty & emegration,I hate them because they've left us no way out" -MICHAEL COLLINS- 1920-

[Supermodel]

But Pastra, you are living in the past. Yes, many of the protestant population came to Ireland with the promise of landownership but many did not. The Hugenots for example (people with names like Molyneaux and Devereaux) came to Ireland for religious freedom.

Many Jews came to Ireland before and during WWII and instantly melded into Protestant society (it being more accepting of Jews than Catholics).

Plus, there is no doubt that there was much breeding across all lines of the specrtum. So when a population like that of today exists, who should determine the fate of the land, the people living there today who were born there, or the actions of their collective anscestors?

Sinn Fein offers no answers to the questions of today.

What will happen to unionist beleivers after Ireland is united?

Will there be full separation of church and state?

Will there be full religious freedom, including the right to have no religion?

Will there be a redistribution of assets from those who currently own property and capital in the North?

Will there be full contraceptive and divorce rights equal to other countries in the West?

Again, if Sinn Fein had the right answers it would be the ruling party in the Republic. But it isn't.

[pastradamus]

The jew's from WW2 have bleanded in with caothlics.There is a jewish community where I live in Cork,they came from the baltic states to our country for it's neutrality in the war.
Sinn fein are set to get a large vote in our upcoming elections,the reason they dont get that many votes in the republic in the past is cuz they never concentrated on it.
Why don't you tell the protestant's in north eire to stop living in the past,im just showing you the causes of the conflict.
To be honest I couldnt give a fiddlers fuck about the North,But it pisses me off when there are attack's on the caothlic community in the north. e.g bloddy sunday.
If it were up to me,I think today anybody of any faith,race,colour ect...... born on the island is Irish.

[peaccenicked]

Sinn Fein offers the hand of friendship to the Unionist
community.
To quote Gerry Adams on church State and wealth.
"We demand civil and religious liberties and the separation of church from state. We seek a redistribution of wealth, a new economic democracy to end unemployment and emigration, to guarantee education, houses and jobs. We seek to turn this vision into a reality. "



(Edited by peaccenicked at 8:35 pm on Feb. 5, 2002)