Mahem in The Middle East

[GuerillaTactics]

I was curious to know what you comrades think about the situation in Israel, The West Bank and Gaza. Do you agree with the rebellion of the Palestinians and their right to resist occupation of their lands by the zionist entity? Just wondering what your views are. Thank You

[Supermodel]

These two factions will never come to a peaceful agreement.

Here is my proposal:

Jerusalem should be made a non-nation city owned by the United Nations and held in trust for all religions as a shrine. People can still live there, but will be Trust citizens.

Palestine and Israel should have clear borders and fair distribution of resources (way too easy to say, way to go Supermodel)

Let's leave a one-mile no-go zone between the two.

BTW, the same applies to Kashmir and Tibet.

[Moskitto]

Yep, give Palestine a country (West Bank and Gaza Strip because neither were given to Isreal by the UN mandate.) Make Jurusalem a free city. Then tell boths sides to leave each other alone.

[MJM]

I think the palestinians are justified to fight for their freedom.
Remember they didn't kill all the Jews in the war, so why are they paying the price for it?

[Reuben]

Yes I would definitely support the palestinian struggle against the zionist entity. It is unfortunate that the thorrific events we have seen over the past year has merely been a tangible representation of the historic relationship between colonial Israel and the Palestinians.

From the outset Israel was a nation based on occupattion and racial discrimination. In the war of 1948 over 700,000 palestinians were driven out . Yes the reasons vary. Some left after there land was taken and they had no means of subsistence. In the most horrific cases such as Dier Yassin zionist terrr organizations with the blessing of the Israeli generals enterred palestinian villages carried out mass rapings and killings.


The result of Israels racist immigration policy is that there are now 5000,000 palestinians in exile.


To support palestinian rights join youth action forpalestine you can go to our website, although the form for joining is not working so just e-mail us.

The website is www.geocities.com.youthactionforpalestine

you can e-mail [email protected]

[Omar Talib]

The question is at the same time simple and complicated.

In 1947 the UN mandated that the Jewish people (who, bear in mind, had been displaced by the same Western nations that ran the organization) be given a homeland to settle in. 'What better place than their biblical homeland?' they said. And soon over a half a million Palestinians who had lived on the land for hundreds and sometimes over a thousand years were expelled to make room for someone who had never seen the place. Of course, the war of 1948 was then justified not only by divine law (Islam, as well as Christianity, permits fighting for those forcibly expelled from their homes) but also by common human rationale. In 1967, Israel launched a 'pre-emptive strike' against the Arab nations around it, and seized the West Bank, Gaza, and the Golan Heights in Syria. Israel had then the entirety of the Palestinian nation in what was effectively an occupation.

Israeli racial law (let's face it, that's what it is) did not permit Palestinians the right to any kind of national expression. They were not allowed to become lawyers, doctors, or any other specialized profression. A Palestinian could go to university and get a Masters degree and still be forced to wait tables or sell candy on a street corner because of these laws. Palestinians were not allowed to display the Palestinian flag, information used to convict Palestinian 'insurgents' was often gathered by the Shin Bet, the Israeli spy agency, and thus Palestinian defense lawyers were not allowed to review it, as it was considered confidential and thus could not be seen by any non-Shin Bet agents or officers.

But on the other side of the coin, there are now two generations of Israelis born in Israel. So it's their homeland too. That country is simultaneously both Israel and Palestine.

[Drifter]

the jews aren't going anywere, and neither are the palestinians, they are going to have to learn to live with each other, easy to say, but how can you change such deep set views?

[GuerillaTactics]

Zionism= Racism

[pastradamus]

The jew's were place there & the palistiniens were thrown out just like that.That is simular to the plantations that happened in northern Ireland,and on both fronts there is violence.

[GuerillaTactics]

The Palestinian People should not have to pay the price for what europe did to the jewish people......and that is exactly what is happening...... the Israelis basically learned from their Nazi masters in Europe and are implamenting the same practices that oppressed them in the past against the palestinian people.......... It's like the abused child syndrome........like when an abused child grows up the majority grow up to abuse

[Reuben]

Really good post omar talib.Part of the reason why the west were so keen on Israel was that the western powers did not particularly wish to take in alot of Jewish refugees whoo were displaced after the war. I would definitely not support the expulsion of Irsraelis from palsesstine/Israel. It did occur to me that the palestinians, as an occuppied nation are making very modest demands in demanding a part of their country with east jerusalemand the rights of return for refugees.
There was an item on the news today regarding 100 army reservists in israel who had refused to serve in the occuppied territory.
I know somebody who was, as an israeli, called up to fight. He agreed to go but got up in the night and graffitied over loads of tanks messages like "End the occupation" the result was that he was sent to prison for a few months.

[GuerillaTactics]

I read the same report in the news today...........I was actually very shocked to say the least that the media would even report this........most of the time the western media is very much on the side of the Israeli zionist regime and it's oppression of the indiginous palestinians..........kind of a breathe of fresh air.......... I hope more stories like this one come out and the public will see what the situation in the west bank and Gaza really is............. an imperialist occupation of the indiginous people of Palestine by the evil regime that is the zionist entity known as Israel
.

(Edited by GuerillaTactics at 1:10 am on Feb. 5, 2002)

[El Che]

The palestinianes have a right to the hole of palestine. CNN propaganda has grinded into our brains that not recognising "isreals right to exist" is like saying your suport the 11/9. Why should i recognise the right to murder and ocupation of a foriegn nation? i do not, Isreal has no right to exist. The isrealies as any person have a right to exist, but Isreal as a nation is a crime. It has bin a crime since it started and untill it ends it will remain a crime.

Solution to the conflict : Isreali war criminals are jailed, restorations for 60 years of murder and war are paided by all Isrealies, Europe and USA also pay restorations and admit there roll in the atrocities, palestine goes back to the palestinians and jews that have not taken part in the crimes of there "nation" can live under arabic rule. <--- This is the just solution. But we all know that is exactly why this solution is not the one that will prevail. Long live the intifada, go down fighting! better to live one day as a lion than a thousand as a sheep.

[alphaq]

What makes me even angrier is the fact that the US so blatantly supports the occupation. I read somewhere that Jews make up 65% of this nations's top 1% in wealth. Given campaign contributions, etc. that may explain the US's foriegn policy towards palestine.

[Derar]

But still , i feel so far away from the solution ......

we cant do anything , or can we ?

i wish i can go there and fight , i would really love to , but i know that its impossible to get in there in the first place !

[GuerillaTactics]

yeah and the reason for the blatant support for the Israeli gov't is the jewish lobby in washington which is the most powerful lobby in the United States...........buying congressmen and senetors is their specialty

[Xvall]

" Israeli murdurers are called 'Commandos', Arab commandos are called 'Terrorists'.. "

[GuerillaTactics]

the term terrorist is a propaganda tool......and is basically meaningless.......you have a point Drake

[Reuben]

Yes the ZIONIST lobby in America is very powerful.

[MetalGus]

Have you ever seen poor Jewish people in the U$???
I've always thought they were all high-middle-class or in the bourgeoisie community.

Am I wrong?

[GuerillaTactics]

The "chosen" (zionists)people take care of their own at the cost of the rest of the population in this country


(Edited by GuerillaTactics at 8:34 pm on Feb. 8, 2002)

[MJM]

Take it easy on jews guys. There are a few here and they're pro Palestine. Its the Zionist bastards doing it.

Don't be blinded by racist propaganda. Racism is a tool for the ruling classes, it divides us like a knife through butter.

[Xvall]

Dont' get me wrong. I'm not anti-jewish. I'm talking about Zionism as well.. I'm just saying.. Zionist Murdurers are called commandos. And the way this county sees it, anyone fighting in an opposeing country is a terrorist, even if they're just trying to protect their homeland.

[GuerillaTactics]

Nobody argued that it was all jews......... If you read the posts.......you would see that we were refering to the zionists and the Israeli gov't for the most part.................... I do not believe anyone has a problem with the jewish race or faith.......(besides that chosen people crap) on this site........ the one who turns to racist ideology has already lost.....and is no better than the zionists

[Reuben]

Thankyou MJM.


Last night I felt like making a point about this ut felt that it was me always complaining. I do not believe that anyone was intentionally anti-semitic.

However, people do seem do be equating jew with z`zionist. For example talking about "The Jewish Lobby" instead of the zionist lobby. I Have jewish relatives in America and they are not lobbying for Israel though they are aware of a lobby on behalf of zionism. I felt particularly aawkward when Alphaq posted stats on Jewish wealth

I am a jewish anti-zionist, and the point is that zionism is a political movement. While, as I said, I believe there is no intentional hostility, when people use the word Jew instead of zionist I and other anti-zionists take it quite naturally as an attack on us. Please thinkwhen you are writing wheter you mean Jew (Somebody who happen s to be part of the Jewish Ethnic Minority)
or a zionist, a proponent of the Israeli government.

Finally I would like to answer Metalgus's question. Yes there are big working class jewish communities in America incluing in New York. When Jews first cam in the earlier part of the twentieth century they were actually very poor being refugees etc. asnd worked in sweatshops to a great extent.

[MetalGus]

Thanks for the information.
I've always thought there was no prole Jews.

About you're earlier statement regarding the word Jew instead of Zionist, I'm totally behind you (I've always said a large portion of the Jewish community was against Zionism). But at the same time, it's really easy to generalize a problem and come to hate all the actors.

You see, even if we all feel hatred and anger against the bourgeoisie, I'm 100% positive that some of them are good people (a very small purcentage though).

I try my best everyday not to judge people by their clothes, social class, religion... but it's pretty tough.

Anyway, I'll keep on trying in hope it'll make me a better person.

[Guest]

i do not believe they meant all "jews". Anyone who got offended dont blow it out of context, i dont think they meant it in a racist way, that is kind of against what you people stand for right? well good night, ...p.s. boy am i pissed about the patriots winning today...sheesh

[Reuben]

Guest. As I said I don't think that anyone was intentionally racist. However it is very hard not to get taken in by anti-jewish mythology i.E. jewish wealth jewish media jews taking care of their own.

I do not think that I was blowing anything out of context. Whether they meant it or not statements were made which very clearly made no distinction between jews and zionists and indicted a whole jewish population. For me as a jew, who is well farmiliarised with the Jewish conspiracy theory, I see a corrolation between what I see on fascist sites and what I read here about the Jewish lobby buying senators.

As I said I do not think anyone intended to be ant-semitic and I have a lot of respect for guerilla tactics. However I feel that several [eople have based their views on a kind of ethnic determinism rather than recognition of zionism as a political movement.


Victory to The Intifada,

Reuben

[GuerillaTactics]

I apologize for not making a distinction.........that was my fault........It is very easy to generalize when your emotions are running high........I did not mean to generalise intentionaly .......but regardless I did not make a distinction at the time........so just for the record I would like to formally make an apology................It's good that you guys pointed this out because I really didn't think about it at the time and it opened my eyes to it, so that I do not make the same mistake twice...........I do also want to point out that our enemy is not the jewish people ........but the racist zionist movement that keeps a nation of our comrades living under exile or occupation.......... Support the Intifada.................End oppression.........Get rid of the Corrupt Arafat.......... Total victory over the colonists!

[Guest]

Hell yeah, F#ck zionists!!!!!