problems with communism?

[Iamacommie]

I'm trying to learn more about communism and I was wondering if you guys can help me out. I know what it is all, but whenever I ask people what they think about it, they say it would never work because poeple wouldn't work hard because they would not get more than anyone else. What are your guys' opinions on this?


O, and this my first post.

:che:

[Misodoctakleidist]

It's a terrible argument, it's completely illogical. How many people ae actually paid-per-piece? Most people are working in jobs with no prospect of a pay-rise or promotion and do as little as they can possibly get away with. If anything people would work harder in a communist society becuase they would be working for society and therfor themselves instead of working to further enrich a business owner.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2004, 02:14 PM
whenever I ask people what they think about it, they say it would never work because poeple wouldn't work hard because they would not get more than anyone else.
What you have to remember is that the majority of people you speak to no absoloutly nothing about communism accept what they see on documentries, which are never, or rarely not bias against it.

When people say these kinds of things they only have one perspective. What I mean is they can only judge things based on what they themselves have experienced. They believe that people will not work hard or will not be greedy because that is how the society they are in is.

We live in a capitalist society which produces greed. It forces people to not want to work hard because they are alienated from their work. People do not work to be productive or to create something usful for society, they work to make other people rich and so they can buy food. This makes people lazy. People dont want to have to work like this, and so they dont.

In a communist society capitalism wont exist. Society will be organized so that people are working for each other. Producing for society rather than for individuals. People will have organized themselves and destroyed capitalism in order so they can live in this kind of society. They will want to make it work. They will have faught very hard to try and make it work. Peoples ideas about greed and lazyness will disappear as they work to dismantle the things that exploit and oppress them.

What you have to make these people understand is that society will fundamentally change under communism, and that they can not judge the ideology based on how they percieve the world now. Things will be very different.

And welcome to the board... :)

[Iamacommie]

Thanks :)
yeah, I know that a lot people are uneducated about about communism. It's sad, because if they know more about then they would realize it's a better way of life.

[The Feral Underclass]

That's why we have to build a movement to show them that it is better.

[Revolt!]

We need a whole decentralized organisation to lead the youth into the future. Change is needed, is required so we need power to come from the people, not from the barrel of a gun.

Communism will need to be implemented at double quick time to change peoples mindsets from Capitalist dogma. We will worry about problems later, we need change now

[Pawn Power]

people will not have to work as hard because they and society will be getting all of the benifits from their labor. In our world today the majority of the profiets go to the bosses who do not even produce anything themselves

[Essential Insignificance]

True…the "average" working day might, very well be…only 6 hours long!

That’s not to say that it wont be "hard", although. Men is Labour.

That’s an enjoyable thought.

[Inter arma, enim silent leges]

I'm not entirely sure people would work harder on the basis of it being for society's good.

Look at an average household where pocket money isn't assigned for the children. How often would they do household chores without massive financial incentives?

[God of Imperia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2004, 04:14 PM
I'm trying to learn more about communism and I was wondering if you guys can help me out. I know what it is all, but whenever I ask people what they think about it, they say it would never work because poeple wouldn't work hard because they would not get more than anyone else. What are your guys' opinions on this?


O, and this my first post.

:che:
If people say this just tell em that this is not the point, for you don't earn money. Not in true communism. You work to help the state and for that the state will take care of you. Where is the need of money? There isn't. Money is what keeps us all enslaved. Us and the capitalists. But the difference is that capitalists doesn't see it as slavery but as a virtue ...

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by Essential [email protected] 15 2004, 07:57 AM
True…the "average" working day might, very well be…only 6 hours long!

That’s not to say that it wont be "hard", although. Men is Labour.

That’s an enjoyable thought.
I suspect the length of work required from everyone will amount to little more than 20 hours a month in an advanced communist society.

[Hate Is Art]

but surely the same ammount of work would be need to be done under communism?

People would be more dedicated and motivated but that surely wouldn't ammount to a huge drop on working times.

[God of Imperia]

many hands make work light, or whatever it is in English, everyone has a job, no one is unemployed, and people with easy jobs can help those with more difficult ones ... help where help is needed

[Hate Is Art]

Sure, but the population isn't suddenly going to increase, the same ammount of wor would need to be done buy the same ammount of people?

[Essential Insignificance]

Sure, but the population isn't suddenly going to increase, the same ammount of wor would need to be done buy the same ammount of people?

That’s erroneous… incalculable ''professions'' will be nowhere to be ''found'' post proletarian revolution.

Due to overt causes.

Production in a communist society is going to be extremely dissimilar to that of a capitalist state.

[shyguywannadie]

I think working hours would dramatically drop because many jobs would no longer be required, like estate agents, no need for them, insurance salesmen, double glazing salesmen etc etc etc

So instead these people can be moved to do things that are actually usefull, so many people means that the working hours would be devided dramatically.





Or maybe im wrong.

[Pawn Power]

Originally posted by Digital [email protected] 18 2004, 03:54 PM
Sure, but the population isn't suddenly going to increase, the same ammount of wor would need to be done buy the same ammount of people?
actually in a communist state their will be many more workers, first of all their would be no unemployed, and their would be no erelvent jobs like sales persons, bankers, or big celeborties..ex... all of these people would be doing real jobs to produce goods for society. All of these un needed professions would add a great amount to the curretn work force. Because we all know their are many people out their making nothing and getting paid for it.

[Essential Insignificance]

communist state

There is no such thing...it’s a total contradiction… an oxymoron if you like…for example a "shattering silence" .

Not intending to get picky.

There will still be pop stars, movie stars, theatre stars, televisions stars and the like in a communist society. However they of course wont be better off then the rest of us…that’s not to say that they wont be more well know then the large part of us.

I dont care. :lol:

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by Essential [email protected] 21 2004, 03:11 AM

communist state

There is no such thing...it’s a total contradiction… an oxymoron if you like…for example a "shattering silence" .
I think glory was meaning a communist society or the socialist state that transitions to communism. "Communist state," is a widespread misconception.
What can you expect? In public school, I was mis-taught that communism is the complete regulation of government and capitalism was somehow synonymous with democracy. These lies did thier part in delaying my intelectual growth toward communism and there are so many other false-hoods passed around capitalist societies that it's hard to see the truth unless you know where to look.

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2004, 03:40 PM
Thanks :)
yeah, I know that a lot people are uneducated about about communism. It's sad, because if they know more about then they would realize it's a better way of life.
True; education is a key element of uniting the working class but there is a lot of retoric to debunk aswell.
I don't see how anyone's life would be worsened by communism, maybe people that stand against human rights, though I don't see that hurting others would improve thier lives.

I like your screen name, it's very direct.

Also, welcome to Che-Lives!

[Essential Insignificance]

What can you expect? In public school, I was mis-taught that communism is the complete regulation of government and capitalism was somehow synonymous with democracy. These lies did thier part in delaying my intelectual growth toward communism and there are so many other false-hoods passed around capitalist societies that it's hard to see the truth unless you know where to look

Of course it is expected insofar…I myself was educated in a public school…and a "appalling" one at that.

The bourgeoisie do want their "regime" to be left in tact…"if worker has no mental capability he is never going to disrupt our tyranny".

And yes, from an early age "we" are brought up on the "diet" of the capitalist "medicine" labelling the "evil communists with their oppressive dictatorships"…"all they want to do is enslave us with their repressive ideology".

At an early age I asked my father what communism was, with him not being the most educated men replied…"where everyone gets paid the same". That one sentence "sparked" my liking of the communist composition…I didn’t take it much further at the time.

I think their "lies" prompted my intellectual awaking of communism.

Like many of us here you have taken the time and looked deeper into society and realized what is actually going on and where history is heading.

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by Essential [email protected] 25 2004, 01:13 AM
I think their "lies" prompted my intellectual awaking of communism.
This is the "Achilles heal" of the "big lie" method. Some people can be endoctrinated from birth and perpetually mislead about "politics." At the same time, the very lies that keep most of the working class confussed, alert people that are concerned about the problems throughout our societies and all of the reactionary retoric starts to make sense after you understand the motives behind it.

[cebert]

I'm trying to learn more about communism and I was wondering if you guys can help me out. I know what it is all, but whenever I ask people what they think about it, they say it would never work because poeple wouldn't work hard because they would not get more than anyone else. What are your guys' opinions on this?


Whats so important about a hard work? Communism is supposed to free the workers from the burden of hard work . If one likes his job then he doesn't need financial incentives to perform his work if there are no class divisions. Only the shitty jobs need some kind of incentives, such as less working hours or maybe the whole population can take part in this work with some kind of national service.

[Raisa]

Originally posted by The Anarchist [email protected] 13 2004, 04:47 PM
That's why we have to build a movement to show them that it is better.
Yes! Exactly. We have to be benevolent and patient and open our hands to every one. We know why we believe what we believe,comrades, we know why its great, but alot of people do not. Alot of the people are discouraged of themselves, and think that this capitalism is as good as it gets. Even for the ignorant burgeoisie, we have to be kind, and if we fight, we should never do it as grey blurs of hate and vengefulness. We must remember who we really are. As communists, and leftists, in general.....we have to show people they are great, becasue that is who its about.

It should always be about loving people, and then hating capitalism will effortlessly follow.

[Essential Insignificance]

This is the "Achilles heal" of the "big lie" method. Some people can be endoctrinated from birth and perpetually mislead about "politics." At the same time, the very lies that keep most of the working class confussed, alert people that are concerned about the problems throughout our societies and all of the reactionary retoric starts to make sense after you understand the motives behind it.


That’s a completely accurate… we are continuously "indoctrinated" since, I guess when we start school or are "conscious" enough to be amenable to they’re "fabrication" and "falsehood" …or even prior, with the celebrating of the Christian days, "Christmas" and "Easter".

These "lies" do indeed keep the proletarian pacified insofar…but material reality will take its due course.