Hippies and protest

[Hiero]

A protest should always connect with the workers(since most are pro on the worker revolution) but alot of times at war protest with iraq the media was only showing pictures of the "hippies" and idoits.

Should we start to make a hirachy controlled protest to stop this from happening with a plea for a dress code adn covering up of face and hair? SHould we make the protest more army like?

What are you thoughts.

[ComradeRed]

bah! no, I have long hippy hair! I look kinda like che (only if I had a beard...) wtf about "looking like an army?"

[Ian]

Ridiculous. People should be allowed to look how they like at a protest.

I guess it would be smart to look decent if you're conducting an interview on TV or something.

[pandora]

Che never condescended to changing his appearence to suit the Western media.
He dressed like a guerrillo because that is where he found himself and his relationship in kinship with his comrades.
It was much more radical to dress as he did in the early 60's than it is now.
Likewise having lived on the streets with a bunch of punk rock kids I found it really hard to "hide who I was to fit into mainstreaming of culture" notice I said mainstreaming.
Because all people are different and have different microcultures that make up our identity. Personally I prefer when people form their own ideas and images instead of accepting those of the mall but who am I to judge.

[bunk]

you could wear balaclavas if you were in danger of being arrested.....

[Eastside Revolt]

I guess It depends which country you are in, but in Canada that would be idiotic. The media would instead show our even more violent side and gain public support against us.

[SittingBull47]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2004, 05:36 AM
Che never condescended to changing his appearence to suit the Western media.
He dressed like a guerrillo because that is where he found himself and his relationship in kinship with his comrades.

That's true. He wouldn't even allow people who associated with him to have fancy things that the average person didn't have and did not let his wife walk around wearing jewelry.

He knew there's more to everything than just the way you look. Too many people think it's all about the image. (I'm not saying anybody in particular, just general people)

[Comrade Marcel]

I'm annoyed by those people as well (at the last one here in Toronto we had some morons with paper bags on their heads and their pants down sliding around on the ice rink at City Hall) but what can you do?? The media will always focus on what's sexy or strange looking (i.e. nudity, violence, or stupid looking costumed people).

[Hiero]

Im not talkin about western mainstream, im talking about appealing to the masses and not looking like hippies so people can take us seriously.

For example when the blacks of america in the early 50's were trying to change the sepratist state of USA, Marting Luther King said they need to dress more smartlike to crush the sterotype created by the white rulers, that black people being savages and all the rest. So they wore suits to appeall more to the masses as being just like them to get sympathy for there cause.

Now why shouldnt we do the same, how can the workers have empathy and support for roudy hippy teenagers at protest(which is common in western world protest).There needs to be more organsie, more structure and deffinetly more control.

For example at the recent war protest at Sydney the news coverage was appaling, and they rarely showed intelligent people using the microphone, the one memory i have is a stumpy fat teenager screamy in a high pitch voice "we dont want this bloody war". This appeals only to the hippy who believes in freedom of dress yah blah individuals yah and the rest of there other crap. While you're living thoos beliefs, the capitalist and imperilist love it since the protest dont connect to the workers, they love hippies as they are the plague of the left movement.

We need to start to have better control to make sure the media coverage is of intteligent speakers, realistic demands with proper backing and reasoning and a protest force that connects with the workers.

[Guest1]

While we're at it, we should stop thinking about freedom of speech and choice. We should forget about things like worker's revolution, as we might look like fucking commies if we did.

The only way for us to achieve worker's liberation comrades, is to shoot anyone who talks about it on site! All they are doing is embarassing us and making us look fringe!

[Ziggy]

comrade neonate, to be perfectly frank, I'm pissed off by your comments. I'm a yippie/socialist and why should I hide who I am when it won't make a difference when voicing my political views. You are thinking too much on image and not enough on what people are saying. I'm an active member of Amnesty International. We have all kinds of people in our group be it socialists, hippies, yippies(yes there is a difference), anarchists, communists, capitalists, people of all creeds and religions, and all other kinds of people; but that does not stop us from being effective. It is not how we look, but what we think and feel and say. It's the heart man not the look!

the news coverage was appaling, and they rarely showed intelligent people using the microphone Of course they only show idiots! At the IMF protest last year in DC they showed kids setting tires on fire, it was only five kids, but the news covered it, why? Because idiocy/violence is more interesting to people than calm rationale and sadly always will be. The news only care about making good ratings not good news coverage. If you want more intelligent people on camera why not go up to the camera yourself and speak?

they are the plague of the left movement. Would you be so kind as to tell me how I am a plague to the left movement? Because I feel I'm contributing.

Is it just me or does this guy seems like a fascist in a commie suit?
- wants all protestors to look the same, even if it means hiding what they believe
-wants us to be organized in an army-like manner, a regime if you will
- apparently hates those who are different
-in correlation to above statement, apparently wants to put down certain people's beliefs (rawwrr stupid hippies)
Maybe I'm taking what neonate said too far and personally (being made fun of at school for being a "dirty hippie" for years), I don't know all. All I know is that protests are not about conformity and that is exactly what neonate seems to want.

[Hiero]

You are thinking too much on image and not enough on what people are saying.

No im thinking about the masses and what they think.


yippies(yes there is a difference),

What's a yippie?


Of course they only show idiots! At the IMF protest last year in DC they showed kids setting tires on fire, it was only five kids, but the news covered it, why? Because idiocy/violence is more interesting to people than calm rationale and sadly always will be. The news only care about making good ratings not good news coverage.

Thats why we need to control over megaphones and who is one the microphone, more planing is needed to tell the protesters through website's prep meetings etc that this is how we want it done for this reasons.

I just find the whole expressing your self this is me blah blah as veryunproductive.
The reffering to the protest as being a army is that we need to get the idea of a "battlefield" and now is not the time to be pulling that crap, because these protest arent having the impact they should. We need to start to change the protest ways to maximise the infleunce.

[Hiero]

Is it just me or does this guy seems like a fascist in a commie suit?

So a leader of a army that once his soldiers to dress appropaitly is a fascist? Im not talking about society im talking about improving the protest.

[MiniOswald]

hows about a dinner jacket protest? oh no wait i cant afford one

[Ziggy]

yippies are the youth international party. It was formed by Abbie Hoffman and Jerry Rubin. Abbie Hoffman was a great activists of the 60's and 70's. He started Liberty House, worked on civil rights in the south registering black voters, was part of the chicago 8, organized the levitation of the pentagon protest, as well as many other events. He wrote the book "STEAL THIS BOOK", "STEAL THIS URINETEST", "REVOLUTION FOR THE HELL FOR IT", and many others. He was a very influential member of the leftist movement.

ok maybe...MAYBE, not sure but MAYBE i overreacted a bit , but i still do not agree with having people hide their beliefs because if i have to hide myself under a prescribed veil then how is that better than corporate globalization?

[perception]

Appearance is everything. The point of protest is to draw attention to yourself and your cause, and to get people to empathise with you. If you want to dress like a hippie, grow your hair out, don't shower, or whatever else hippies/yippies or whoever do, fine, but that does NOT appeal to the masses and they will not empathise with your cause if you look like a CARTOON to them.

[Guest1]

Well, you and comrade neonate are what really looks like a cartoon to them.

Try Maus (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0679748407/qid=1082183993/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/102-8087309-5673721?v=glance&s=books&n=507846).

[M_Rawlins]

Abbie Hoffman was a great activists of the 60's and 70's. He started Liberty House, worked on civil rights in the south registering black voters, was part of the chicago 8, organized the levitation of the pentagon protest, as well as many other events. He wrote the book "STEAL THIS BOOK", "STEAL THIS URINETEST", "REVOLUTION FOR THE HELL FOR IT", and many others. He was a very influential member of the leftist movement.

for those who haven't read it:
Steal This Book (http://www.tenant.net/Community/steal/steal.html)

[perception]

Originally posted by Che y [email protected] 17 2004, 01:39 AM
Well, you and comrade neonate are what really looks like a cartoon to them.

Try Maus (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0679748407/qid=1082183993/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/102-8087309-5673721?v=glance&s=books&n=507846).
Look fucktard, why do you think that the Black Panthers, the Nation of Islam, even the 'hippies' in the 60's were able to capture the hearts and minds of so many? People saw them on TV and thought they looked 'sexy' in their suits or berets or whatever. You want to spread communist ideas you need to appeal to the masses. Not what you want the masses to be, but what they are. If we all marched down to city hall looking like a bunch of skinheads or wearing white robes protesting the war in Iraq or taxes or environmental degradation or whatever, do you think anybody would hear what we were saying?

[perception]

You want another example? Look at how many of your 'comrades' faun over the Zapatistas, a tiny indigenous revolt in southern Mexico which is anything but communist. It's appearance they look like fucking gangsters with those ski masks and Ak's shouting ¡Ya Basta! from the back of pickup trucks. There are hundreds of other movements like theirs, they get the attention cuz they have sex appeal.

[Ziggy]

thank you M_Rawlins, the book is simply amazing. Abbie Hoffman and Jerry Rubin were basically the american guerrilla fighters. I mean, who else would run into HUAC in a Minutemen uniform screaming "you are all unamerican!" Though I'm sure Neonate would never read about him or his brilliance because of a small thing called appearance.

SEX APPEAL? FUCKING SEX APPEAL? look, i think the last thing on a revolutionary's mind is fucking sex appeal! think with your brain not your dick!

Che y Marijuana, i just read the first book of maus, really moving.

[perception]

SEX APPEAL? FUCKING SEX APPEAL? look, i think the last thing on a revolutionary's mind is fucking sex appeal! think with your brain not your dick!

figuratively speaking, not literally you jackass.


run into HUAC in a Minutemen uniform screaming "you are all unamerican!"

^^ that is an example of an action with 'sex appeal'. The cameras will roll and people will tell a friend, people will be enchanted and see it as, for lack of a better word, 'glamorous'.

[Ziggy]

but what makes it glamorous is ideas and thoughts behind what they are doing. Their message is what makes it glamorous. If they ran in with the same outfits screaming "DIE COMMIE DIE!" most people would feel they were just some nutbags, just trying to stir trouble.

[perception]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2004, 03:26 PM
but what makes it glamorous is ideas and thoughts behind what they are doing.
That's very beautiful, and very detached from reality.

[dopediana]

the media is either with you or against you. if they don't have a stand they won't cover you or they only will if it's sex and/or violence. if you go to www.protestwarrior.com their picture of the opposition is a guy dressed up to look like a tropical bird. che-lives has the icon of che looking noble.
neonate wants to intimidate. he thinks that if you intimidate people they'll take you more seriously. allegiance through fear is not true allegiance. therefore, dress however the hell you like. people who find appeal in ideas are the kinds of people you want to attract the most of. protests are demonstrations, they raise awareness of a cause and bring the change around sequentially.

perception
dressing like militiamen will not raise awareness. it will scare people shitless and they won't want to be on your side. they'll sic the national guard on you....

[perception]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2004, 07:31 PM
perception
dressing like militiamen will not raise awareness. it will scare people shitless and they won't want to be on your side. they'll sic the national guard on you....
Show me where I said to dress like a militiaman. I said appearance is a very important factor when trying to gain support for your cause, and in 2004 dressing like a 'hippy' causes the general public to see your movement as wackos, insignificant, or just in an overall negative light. That's the stereotype of a hippy, a pot-smoking pacifist who voted for Nader. It's a stereotype, and probably wrong 95% of the time but that's the impression you leave. If you want people to listen to what you're saying, you have to get their attention first, and the best way to do that is visually.

[Vinny Rafarino]

There are hundreds of other movements like theirs, they get the attention cuz they have sex appeal.


All these years and someone has finally found us out. Urban and rural guerrillas cover their faces because they want "sex appeal"

I may as well come clean.

My last trip to Mexico was actually a front to do a new porno shoot with the Zapitistas.


It went well but we are still looking for a name to call the film, perhaps some of you can help me out.

I like;



"Raise the fist, and them jam it in your arse"

"Red on the outside but pink on the inside"

"Cum-buttered cornholes of the FARC"

"Stalin Sucks"



Let me know which one is best, or give me some fresh ideas...

[perception]

I realize that the median age on this website is probably like 17 but the maturity level and reasoning ability around here leaves much to be desired.

[Hampton]

Look fucktard, why do you think that the Black Panthers, the Nation of Islam, even the 'hippies' in the 60's were able to capture the hearts and minds of so many?

I tend to believe that the reason the Panthers caught on was because they were a bunch of black guys carrying guns demanding rights. The dress came secondary.

[perception]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2004, 10:05 PM

I tend to believe that the reason the Panthers caught on was because they were a bunch of black guys carrying guns demanding rights. The dress came secondary.
The "carrying guns + demanding rights" was the image, the dress/behavior reinforced that image. That was why they were so successful in stirring up both support and hatred.

[DaCuBaN]

the capitalist and imperilist love it since the protest dont connect to the workers, they love hippies as they are the plague of the left movement

Mass protest is a bloody joke to be honest. in our false democracy they won't listen anyway. Bloody rebellion is the only solution - and thats coming from someone who to meet you would class as a 'hippie'. But I'm not...

Image is a real problem, the main problem being so many people set store by it, when it's really so fantastically unimportant.


appearance is a very important factor when trying to gain support for your cause, and in 2004 dressing like a 'hippy' causes the general public to see your movement as wackos, insignificant, or just in an overall negative light. That's the stereotype of a hippy, a pot-smoking pacifist who voted for Nader. It's a stereotype, and probably wrong 95% of the time but that's the impression you leave. If you want people to listen to what you're saying, you have to get their attention first, and the best way to do that is visually.

Very astute. Only problem with that is where do we go from there? Say you persuade all the protesters to turn out in formal evening wear - nice and smart for the cameras. They'll switch off because it DOESN'T MAKE GOOD NEWS. Protest relies on mass media to broadcast it's plight to the world, so image or not you're going to get nowhere in our modern world through this method, as noone in their right mind trusts the modern media. So we may as well dress how the hell we like, because your not protesting thinking your actually getting something done, you do it because you WANT to do it.

Bloody revolution, starting with the broadcast mediums - that's how it's done.

[dopediana]

they cover you if they hate you and you look stupid. they'll cover you if they love you and you look good. they cover you if you fuck shit up. they don't cover you if you look good and they hate you and nothing exciting is happening. naturally they have to take you seriously, but i haven't seen many people who don't look worthy of being taken seriously at protests. the only ones who might not look like they can be taken seriously are the policemen with their strained blue uniforms and silly hats, but what compensates for it are the billy clubs and the guns.