i've joined the CCP now!!!!!!!! [Archive]

VukBZ2005

11th April 2004, 22:06

Originally posted by International Chairman [email protected] 11 2004, 05:18 AM
today,i posted my apply of joining the CCP(Chinese communist Party).Although have known it wasn't good in some parts but i still wish 2 be one of its members.Look at the war in Iraq, why Bush wanna do this? he plans U.S Forces in Taiwan and broke the Contract to sell weapons to Taiwan,but anyway he will not succeed.China is not Iraq,we gonna give everything back 2 him if he dare 2 make Taiwan seprated!
I Believe that your party is not Communist and it's gonna colapse on itself.
I Also believe that Taiwan is a independent nation and has the right to be
independent just as any other nation. How would you feel if China was
robbed of it's independence - you would'nt feel too good right? Although
i'm a Socialist - i believe that every one has the right of Self-Determination.

Including Taiwan.

Edelweiss

11th April 2004, 22:21

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2004, 05:13 PM
Good for you, biggest party in the world. If anything can save the world from US imperialism its your comrades.
:lol: Sorry, but that is a rather foolish and narrow-minded statement. If China would still represent any form of a socialist nation, I could understand your statement, but every leftist with a brain see that it's not. Just look at the working conditions in China, exploitation there is even worser and more direct than in western countries, China successfully developed as a low-wage producer for the EU and the US. Besides China has become an imperialist player and competitor by it's own, and is for example fully controlling the oil production in Sudan. Even if you would be right, and China would defeat US imperialism, it would be the victory of one imperialist nation over another, and wouldn't even remotely weaken the capitalist system. You are making the same fault like those "leftists" who have any hope in a strong, unified Europe against US imperialism.
Deal with, China is an capitalist nation, supporting them is highly reactionary and will lead nowhere. Wake up!!!

socialistfuture

12th April 2004, 01:39

at some stage china needs a turn to the left. just like america needs a revolution.
china needs a people democracy in form not in words. though it does have a huge population it would be difficult for anyone to run. tibetans need to be given an apology and something back for what was done to their homeland.
i support mao's vision and belive he had the best os intentions - but there has been much hurt chinese people need freedom.. stay in the party and find out how it really runs and study china from within.

hasta la victoria siempre!!!

Raisa

12th April 2004, 02:08

CCP
WooooohahahahaHA
YOu make Raisa laugh.
You notice some of thier faults eh? Thats good.

Bunch of cappies who pimp out thier people. :angry:

International Chairman Mao

12th April 2004, 05:29

Hey,gald 2 read ur replies and really glad 2 see there r still many people who wants 2 built a Communist Country.
1. i didn't mean socialism,i joined the party just because it's leading our country and it's making our country strong.we have a hugh population and no other country faced such a problem of feeding the people but we did.although there r still lots of problems but we r accelerating our reforms.now what chinese people think in their mind is not how 2 make commulist come true but how 2 make our country strong and how 2 become richer,that's the point. i think everyone have the right 2 make comments but guys,plz think in ur mind there r no any other party or country or goverment make the achievement as CCP did.we r builting our economic system and look at my city-shanghai which gonna hold the F1 and EXPO 2010,it's just as modern as any other international cites.the CCP is making us richer,that's the point!
2.i agree that an area have the right 2 be indepent.but it needs the surpport of most of its people.in the Election which decided whether taiwan would seperated from the mainland,only few taiwan people joined the vote,so that proved that not everyone wants 2 be indepent.and all i talked about was the U.S shouldn't broken the Contract 2 sell weapons 2 taiwan, and it shouldn't plan Armed Forces in Taiwan.and really i don't know why u think taiwan should be an indepent country?
can u tell me or u learn it from history?because i have some taiwan friends and they live in shanghai and we play together and i know they r different from us but we r of the same race.
3.tibet.i think u guys didn't being there.many of my friends have been there and they all said the people there r having a so-called''not bad''life.if u learned history u would know that the tibetan used 2 live a very hard life.that's the progress.and really i think the things that u learned from the western radio or tv is not totally true as if us-chinese people only learn from our State-Run media,so the only way is u going there and have a reseach,that'll be the truth.
BY THE WAY,IT'S MY FIRST TIME 2 BE HERE AND REALLY NICE 2 MEET U GUYS!IT'S TRUE!!!
P.S:IN CHINA APPLY IS EASY.IF U R A A-LEVER STUDENT AND OVER 18,U WILL BE CHOSEN 2 JOIN IN!

Fidelbrand

12th April 2004, 06:35

ok, we know that the CCP is making the capitalists rich.. okok. Are you one of those capitalists that are eager to have CCP to protect you and grant special rights to you as you are a CCP member? You said the country is getting rich and developing and talked about Shanghai as developing at full speed, ... that can more of less reveal what kind of ideal you are having in your heart. Show us that you are a COMMUNIST.

what do you have to respond to-----> the CCP running counter towards its initial ideal : to provide a equal society and care for the farmers and people of all walks of life. The CCP is running into a capitalist mode of life for the people, but still holding an Iron fist in political terms. I know people are getting rich , and China is developing economically, but why does it still call itself a "COMMUNIST PARTY" , why it is employing fullblown capitalist methods to run its economy?

12th April 2004, 10:24

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2004, 10:21 PM
I could understand your statement, but every leftist with a brain see that it's not.
China is a mixed economy, much of it is capitalist, not all of it is. But we're not talking about China, we're talking about the Chinese Communist Party, which has some "capitalist roader" elements in power but a lot of progressive "leftwing marxist" elements as well. Its a huge diverse party, the people who are in power today are to the left of hte people in power a few years ago. THere are definately real marxist socialists in the Communist Party as this person here apparently is, and the party still represents the greatest concentration of those legitimate marxists even though they are not currently in the party leadership.

Edelweiss

12th April 2004, 11:53

Originally posted by TragicClown+Apr 12 2004, 12:24 PM--> (TragicClown @ Apr 12 2004, 12:24 PM)
[email protected] 11 2004, 10:21 PM
I could understand your statement, but every leftist with a brain see that it's not.
China is a mixed economy, much of it is capitalist, not all of it is. But we're not talking about China, we're talking about the Chinese Communist Party, which has some "capitalist roader" elements in power but a lot of progressive "leftwing marxist" elements as well. Its a huge diverse party, the people who are in power today are to the left of hte people in power a few years ago. THere are definately real marxist socialists in the Communist Party as this person here apparently is, and the party still represents the greatest concentration of those legitimate marxists even though they are not currently in the party leadership. [/b]
And their will never be again in party leadership! Everything else is an illusion, the remains of planned economy will be history soon as well...
The CCP is a big, corrupt abyss, which is as far away from being a communist party than the Republican party of the US!
And if it's such a "divert party" why have they voted than with a big majority (dunno the exact numbers now, I think it was about 98%) in favor to allow the private property of means of production? I think we have to face the truth that the CCP is now representing the class enemy.

Red Guard

12th April 2004, 14:17

What China needs is another Cultural Revolution to crush the bourgeoisie parasites.

http://img24.photobucket.com/albums/v73/Comandante/pla60.jpg

http://img24.photobucket.com/albums/v73/Comandante/china11.jpg

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http://img24.photobucket.com/albums/v73/Comandante/pla67.jpg

http://img24.photobucket.com/albums/v73/Comandante/pla51.jpg

http://img24.photobucket.com/albums/v73/Comandante/china9.jpg

http://img24.photobucket.com/albums/v73/Comandante/china8.jpg

http://img24.photobucket.com/albums/v73/Comandante/mzd04.jpg

http://img24.photobucket.com/albums/v73/Comandante/ssc09.jpg

Fidelbrand

12th April 2004, 18:06

Originally posted by Comandante [email protected] 12 2004, 02:17 PM
What China needs is another Cultural Revolution to crush the bourgeoisie parasites.
good idea, but only an idea.

China's CCP would never "go back" towards to revamp and rebuild its initial ideals. "Socialism" is now a buzzword use to keep the party in power, and most ironically, its name, otherwise it would have to recall itself as the "Chinese Capitalist Party" ... still CCP though. <_<

Fidelbrand

12th April 2004, 18:14

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2004, 10:06 PM
I Also believe that Taiwan is a independent nation and has the right to be
independent just as any other nation. How would you feel if China was
robbed of it's independence - you would'nt feel too good right? Although
i'm a Socialist - i believe that every one has the right of Self-Determination.

Including Taiwan.
Taiwan is part of China. Only because the KMT was defeated and build a country there doesn't mean that their government is made legitimate. The people of both lands has carries the same blood and same ancestries. Self-determination is of prima facie importance, but that doesn't justify everything, comrade. Independence was a historically-made mistake. Taiwan was always a province of China before the KMT landed there.

Saint-Just

12th April 2004, 21:17

the CCP is making us richer,that's the point!

Thats rubbish, the fast economic development started under Mao. China will get richer, but it could do it under a socialist system. Now China will get richer but the gap between rich and poor will increase and you will have almost a hundred million right at the bottom, in abject poverty with miserable lives.

China is being infected with U.S. culture and U.S., right-wing values. China will become another capitalist oppressor nation.

What China needs is another Cultural Revolution to crush the bourgeoisie parasites.

I agree, China needs a party of true Mao supporters and must undertake a cultural revolution to turn around the cultural degradation.

Capitalist roaders have taken over the CCP. Mao pointed these people out in the cultural revolution, and so you cannot be in support of this leadership whilst being against Mao. Deng Xiaoping was a capitalist roader, and he was imprisoned because of it, for two years. They believed people like him could be rehabilitated, but he was not, he should have been expelled from the party.

Red Guard

12th April 2004, 21:54

Originally posted by Chairman [email protected] 12 2004, 05:17 PM
They believed people like him could be rehabilitated, but he was not, he should have been expelled from the party.
He should have ended up like Liu Shaoqi.

VukBZ2005

12th April 2004, 22:56

Originally posted by Fidelbrand+Apr 12 2004, 06:14 PM--> (Fidelbrand @ Apr 12 2004, 06:14 PM)
[email protected] 11 2004, 10:06 PM
I Also believe that Taiwan is a independent nation and has the right to be
independent just as any other nation. How would you feel if China was
robbed of it's independence - you would'nt feel too good right? Although
i'm a Socialist - i believe that every one has the right of Self-Determination.

Including Taiwan.
Taiwan is part of China. Only because the KMT was defeated and build a country there doesn't mean that their government is made legitimate. The people of both lands has carries the same blood and same ancestries. Self-determination is of prima facie importance, but that doesn't justify everything, comrade. Independence was a historically-made mistake. Taiwan was always a province of China before the KMT landed there. [/b]
no - Taiwan was never in it's history under the official Control of The People's
Republic of China. Plus Taiwan was granted independence by China in 1895.
But the Japanese Annexed Taiwan. The only chinese government that Taiwan
was officially was controlled by was the KMT.

All peoples and lands deserve the right to Self-Determination - Including Taiwan.

And the Orginal Taiwanese were Aboriginies from the Pacific; and The modern
Taiwanese are Hakka, Minnan and an Aborigine minority. They are NOT han Chinese!

VukBZ2005

12th April 2004, 23:03

Originally posted by International Chairman [email protected] 12 2004, 05:29 AM
2.i agree that an area have the right 2 be indepent.but it needs the surpport of most of its people.in the Election which decided whether taiwan would seperated from the mainland,only few taiwan people joined the vote,so that proved that not everyone wants 2 be indepent.and all i talked about was the U.S shouldn't broken the Contract 2 sell weapons 2 taiwan, and it shouldn't plan Armed Forces in Taiwan.and really i don't know why u think taiwan should be an indepent country?
can u tell me or u learn it from history?because i have some taiwan friends and they live in shanghai and we play together and i know they r different from us but we r of the same race.

The Truth is the fake Communist Government in China claims that Taiwan was a
province. The Truth is that claim is invalid China - When it was under the control
of the manchus - Gave Taiwan it's independence in 1895 as the Taiwan Republic.
But Japan took over Taiwan and rlued it until 1945 when it was given to Chiang
Kai-Shek and the Kuomintang (KMT).

It's now Taiwan's Decision - They have to determine their future - whether
their Island Should be independent or not. Not you or your fake Communist
party.

I think that a real Communist Party would be aiming for the establishment of
a Real Communist nation - but your party does not have that vision. It wants
to Make China Capitalist!

If you want Communists to take back control of the CCP from the Capitalists -
then start a cultural Revolution.

VukBZ2005

12th April 2004, 23:12

Originally posted by Malte+Apr 11 2004, 10:21 PM--> (Malte @ Apr 11 2004, 10:21 PM)
[email protected] 11 2004, 05:13 PM
Good for you, biggest party in the world. If anything can save the world from US imperialism its your comrades.
:lol: Sorry, but that is a rather foolish and narrow-minded statement. If China would still represent any form of a socialist nation, I could understand your statement, but every leftist with a brain see that it's not. Just look at the working conditions in China, exploitation there is even worser and more direct than in western countries, China successfully developed as a low-wage producer for the EU and the US. Besides China has become an imperialist player and competitor by it's own, and is for example fully controlling the oil production in Sudan. Even if you would be right, and China would defeat US imperialism, it would be the victory of one imperialist nation over another, and wouldn't even remotely weaken the capitalist system. You are making the same fault like those "leftists" who have any hope in a strong, unified Europe against US imperialism.
Deal with, China is an capitalist nation, supporting them is highly reactionary and will lead nowhere. Wake up!!! [/b]
i agree with you, Malte!

Fidelbrand

13th April 2004, 11:15

Originally posted by LinuxMan86+Apr 12 2004, 10:56 PM--> (LinuxMan86 @ Apr 12 2004, 10:56 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2004, 06:14 PM

[email protected] 11 2004, 10:06 PM
I Also believe that Taiwan is a independent nation and has the right to be
independent just as any other nation. How would you feel if China was
robbed of it's independence - you would'nt feel too good right? Although
i'm a Socialist - i believe that every one has the right of Self-Determination.

Including Taiwan.
Taiwan is part of China. Only because the KMT was defeated and build a country there doesn't mean that their government is made legitimate. The people of both lands has carries the same blood and same ancestries. Self-determination is of prima facie importance, but that doesn't justify everything, comrade. Independence was a historically-made mistake. Taiwan was always a province of China before the KMT landed there.
no - Taiwan was never in it's history under the official Control of The People's
Republic of China. Plus Taiwan was granted independence by China in 1895.
But the Japanese Annexed Taiwan. The only chinese government that Taiwan
was officially was controlled by was the KMT.

All peoples and lands deserve the right to Self-Determination - Including Taiwan.

And the Orginal Taiwanese were Aboriginies from the Pacific; and The modern
Taiwanese are Hakka, Minnan and an Aborigine minority. They are NOT han Chinese! [/b]
Linuxman86,

Since the 17th century, Taiwan, a small island with a population today of 21 million, has been recognized internationally not as an independent state but as a province of China. Its official name is Republic of China.
The United Nations has always set aside one seat in both the Security Council and in the General Assembly for China, including Taiwan. For many years after the 1949 triumph of the Chinese Revolution, that seat was occupied by the Kuomingtang forces led by Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek, who had fled with 600,000 troops from Beijing to Taiwan with U.S. help.
When the Chiang forces arrived in Taiwan in 1949, they set up a harsh and repressive regime that was resented by the people already there. The elements fleeing the revolution eventually made up 15 percent of the population of Taiwan, but they ruled over the indigenous majority. At that time, a small grouping supported independence for Taiwan, but it received no outside support.

Taiwan has belonged to China since ancient times. It was known as Yizhou or Liuqiu in antiquities. Many historical records and annals documented the development of Taiwan by the Chinese people in earlier periods. References to this effect were to be found, among others, in Seaboard Geographic Gazetteer compiled more than 1,700 years ago by Shen Ying of the State of Wu during the period of the Three Kingdoms. This was the world's earliest written account of Taiwan. Several expeditions, each numbering over ten thousand men, had been sent to Taiwan by the State of Wu (third century A.D.) and the Sui Dynasty (seventh century A.D.) respectively. Since early seventeenth century the Chinese people began to step up the development of Taiwan. Their numbers topped one hundred thousand at the end of the century. By 1893 (19th year of the reign of Qing Emperor Guangxu) their population exceeded 2.54 million people in 507,000 or more households. That was a 25-fold increase in 200 years. They brought in a more advanced mode of production and settled the whole length and breadth of Taiwan. Thanks to the determined efforts and hard toil of the pioneers, the development of the island as a whole greatly accelerated. This was the historical fact of how Taiwan, like the other parts of China, came to be opened up and settled by the Chinese people of various nationalities. From the very beginning the Taiwan society derived from the source of the Chinese cultural tradition. This basic fact had not changed even during the half century of Japanese occupation. The history of Taiwan's development is imbued with the blood, sweat, and ingenuity of the Chinese people including the local ethnic minorities.

As regards to whether they are han Chinese, well, they are still Chinese... :ph34r:

VukBZ2005

13th April 2004, 14:47

Please look at this -

http://www.taiwandc.org/hst-1624.htm

Fidelbrand

13th April 2004, 16:58

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2004, 02:47 PM
Please look at this -

http://www.taiwandc.org/hst-1624.htm
yes, thanks, i have read this from my friend who sent this to me some time ago..

our discussion can go on forever, here's Workers World newspaper's say on " Why Taiwan is part of China" - By Sara Flounders

http://www.workers.org/ww/1999/taiwan0805.html

Ever thought about we being fooled by U.S. imperialism's of cultivating separatist movements to endanger the intergrity of China?

VukBZ2005

13th April 2004, 18:22

Fidelbrand - No matter how you think - Taiwan is and should be independent
of China. Self-Determination of the lands and of the people irregardless - is
a human right. That right should be extended to Taiwan.

Saint-Just

13th April 2004, 23:40

Originally posted by Comandante Cubano+Apr 12 2004, 09:54 PM--> (Comandante Cubano @ Apr 12 2004, 09:54 PM)
Chairman [email protected] 12 2004, 05:17 PM
They believed people like him could be rehabilitated, but he was not, he should have been expelled from the party.
He should have ended up like Liu Shaoqi. [/b]
Yes, I agree, and the gang of four should have lived on. Mao supported the gang of four, and those who betrayed the gang of four betrayed Mao. But they will not say it, they will not openly say they oppose Mao because Mao led the revolution which created the PRC.

Liu Shaogi subverted Mao Zedong thought. Mao let Liu and Deng Xiaoping have control of the economy, but both began to turn the economy into a capitalist economy and had plans to lead China by making Mao into nothing more than a figurehead, as he practically became after the GLF. Mao recognised what Liu and Deng were doing, Deng got away. The CPC today are enemies of Mao. Deng is the founder of this CPC, and Deng was labelled by Mao as an opportunist, a capitalist roader.

Fidelbrand

14th April 2004, 11:28

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2004, 06:22 PM
Fidelbrand - No matter how you think - Taiwan is and should be independent
of China. Self-Determination of the lands and of the people irregardless - is
a human right. That right should be extended to Taiwan.
Linux, no matter what I think , the truth is on your side. :lol:
At first i thought this is quite an interesting topic to discuss.. can't believe you ended it like that. :rolleyes:

Anyway, as for determination.... E.g. A boy is departed from his mother for some years, he of course has the self-determination and human right to refute recognization from his mother. :D Don't throw the notion of human right and self-detrmination like a cappie~

International Chairman Mao

14th April 2004, 12:57

i posted the post just wanna tell u guys that i have joined the CCP,but really before i read ur replies i havn't thought about what kinda party the CCP really is.and i still don't know now.
Maybe u r right,the CCP has already given up the left-winged road;maybe as u told me China is becoming another Capitalistic nation,but anyway it's still the largest,powerest socialist party in the world and is leading our people.
and i'm still glad 2 join it ,2 be a member of it,although i'm preparing the GRE text 2 go abroad 2 study.
all i wanna say is that the CCP(though it has lots of problems 2 be solved) still represents the benifit of MOST chinese people although lots of its action is not like a real socialist party!
As FIDELBRAND said,taiwan was part of China in history although it's never been ruled by the PRC and over 90% of the people in this small island is not only Chinese but also Han people.i think once u have been there u will understand!
by the way,really,THE NOTION OF HUMAN RIGHT IS NOT A CAPPIE 2 THROW EVERYWHERE ESP BY A NATION WHO LIKES PRETENDING A WORLD POLICEMAN 2 COVER THE CONTRADICTIONS INSIDE ITS LAND!

Fidelbrand

15th April 2004, 14:17

Actually, international chairman mao, can u please tell us more about
1) the application procedures into the CCP?
2) What qualifications are needed to be a member?

thanks.

konev

15th April 2004, 23:39

personaly i think the CCP has turned away from communism, but the only way to get back on the right track is for good communists in China to turn the policy of the party to the left

International Chairman Mao

16th April 2004, 02:07

Fedel brand:
qualification:u have 2 have a chinese nationality,sometimes they offer foreigners the honorable membership,but this don't often happen ;u have 2 be a communist league member(i don't know if u know it because some russian friends told me that they don't know this kinda league in Russia);over 18 years;and some other standards like liking communist ,wish 2 be a member,believe in marxism and so on,actually no standards,if u are a A-leve student and have a good behavior,u can offer.and of course u must have the wish 2 join(because the CCP has a strong power in china so if u r a member u will have some kinda convennience i mean if u want 2 do sth in politics).
if u decided 2 join u have write some articals abt urself and an official apply to ur unit.then they will have some time 2 inspect u.and when it's over u have 2 study in a school called the Party School which will teach u the history,the motto and everything about the CCP,then u finish the exam,u will graduate and become a Pre-member which will last some days.and during the days anyone can doubt about ur membership,if they can prove it,the unit can have the right 2 expel u.and if everything is alright u will join the party and begin 2 pay the party-fee,lol!(that's the process in university,it may be different if u have already worked)

IF U HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT CCP,PLZ ASK!

seen_che

16th April 2004, 10:59

Yeah...I dont know how good the CCP is but you do what you think is best...but i dont know how good they treated people....I mean how they for example treated Tibet.... :blink: I dont know what I mean anymore.........(im going to sleep)

Fidelbrand

16th April 2004, 14:44

International chairman mao,

Thanks for the detailed information you have for us, that's all i wanna know~ 謝謝~~

Shane

17th April 2004, 08:49

International Mao, what do you think the reaction of the CCP to any Western Intervention In North Korea?

Saint-Just

17th April 2004, 13:15

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2004, 08:49 AM
International Mao, what do you think the reaction of the CCP to any Western Intervention In North Korea?
China and North Korea have a bad relationship. China is obviously concerned about North Korea because they border each other. But I don't think China would feel threatened by a western invasion because it is more friendly with the ROK than the DPRK anyway. But I do not think there will be a war in Korea.

Shane

17th April 2004, 13:36

bunk

17th April 2004, 13:45

China is now a capitalist nation i would say just ruled by a fake communist party.

International Chairman Mao

17th April 2004, 15:19

Well,the relationship between China and the North Korea is really special!
China gives most of its financial aids 2 North Korea and the rest 2 Vietnam and some other African countries every year.And at the same time China still has a really good relationship with the ROK which made Pyongyang not happy.and the relationship between China and the ROK is getting better and better esp in the economic field.
China still protect the his benefit in North Korea.China has already cut down the number of its army because the North Korea still have a tremendous number of its Army which is considered 2 be the power 2 pretect the Socialist Party of East Asia.and of course the cost of the Army most comes from the financial aids from china.

Chairman Mao:i don't think the boarder between China and the North Korea is a problem.Because one of my classmate is from the boarder area and he told me that there were a large number of trade.And as u know,there r millions of korean living in china as a minority race so i don't think the boarder should be a problem.But our discusion can still go on if u know something deep under the surface.

Shane:i really don't know what kinda reaction will our Party have?But i think it's will be cpmplicated.our leader will think about many parts of benefits including the ralationship with ROK,the u.s and Japan.But anyway so far it looked useless about the American's Intervation.

Fidelbrand:thanks for the chinese word 谢谢 and it really made me happy!thanks!

VukBZ2005

17th April 2004, 15:26

Originally posted by Fidelbrand+Apr 14 2004, 11:28 AM--> (Fidelbrand @ Apr 14 2004, 11:28 AM)
[email protected] 13 2004, 06:22 PM
Fidelbrand - No matter how you think - Taiwan is and should be independent
of China. Self-Determination of the lands and of the people irregardless - is
a human right. That right should be extended to Taiwan.
Linux, no matter what I think , the truth is on your side. :lol:
At first i thought this is quite an interesting topic to discuss.. can't believe you ended it like that. :rolleyes:

Anyway, as for determination.... E.g. A boy is departed from his mother for some years, he of course has the self-determination and human right to refute recognization from his mother. :D Don't throw the notion of human right and self-detrmination like a cappie~ [/b]
Why do you question the Self-Determination of the Taiwanese People?
why do you think that Taiwan should be a part of China for?
Why do you do not Support Taiwanese independence?

Look - if a area wants to be independent from another nation -
We, as Socialists Should support a fight for Self-Determination and Independence.
The Taiwanese want to be independent of china - We Should
respect that right. Self-Determination is a right of Human beings and
lands all over the globe. I'm not Supporting China - as the CCP has drifted
away from the idea and the values of Socialism.

Shane

17th April 2004, 16:47

would China back N. Korea if it was invaded by US?

Forward Union

17th April 2004, 18:15

No, China has cut off all military backing for N.Korea, but the U.S can't invade as part of the treaty signed at the end of the Korean War. Our only hope is that N.Korea collapses from the inside.

Fidelbrand

17th April 2004, 20:17

Originally posted by LinuxMan86+Apr 17 2004, 03:26 PM--> (LinuxMan86 @ Apr 17 2004, 03:26 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 11:28 AM

[email protected] 13 2004, 06:22 PM
Fidelbrand - No matter how you think - Taiwan is and should be independent
of China. Self-Determination of the lands and of the people irregardless - is
a human right. That right should be extended to Taiwan.
Linux, no matter what I think , the truth is on your side. :lol:
At first i thought this is quite an interesting topic to discuss.. can't believe you ended it like that. :rolleyes:

Anyway, as for determination.... E.g. A boy is departed from his mother for some years, he of course has the self-determination and human right to refute recognization from his mother. :D Don't throw the notion of human right and self-detrmination like a cappie~
Why do you question the Self-Determination of the Taiwanese People?
why do you think that Taiwan should be a part of China for?
Why do you do not Support Taiwanese independence?

Look - if a area wants to be independent from another nation -
We, as Socialists Should support a fight for Self-Determination and Independence.
The Taiwanese want to be independent of china - We Should
respect that right. Self-Determination is a right of Human beings and
lands all over the globe. I'm not Supporting China - as the CCP has drifted
away from the idea and the values of Socialism. [/b]
Answering your questions 1 by 1..
1) I do not question the Self-Determination of the Taiwanese People. In fact, many Taiwanese people regard themselves as Chinese and they want to reunite with China. A funny example--->Pop singers sing songs about themselves as Chinese , saying that they are the descents of the dragon(sometimes they are detered by the Taiwanese government :P ) . Moreover, there is a larger amount of people declaring themselves as Chinese in Taiwan as their ancestry traces back to FuJian (a province of China). Actually, do you know that the people and language of Hakka is orignated in China?
Self determination is invaluable, I never have a belief that the PRC should invade and coerce Taiwan to reunite with it, but i do believe, that the two straits will unite, it is just a matter of time.
2) Answered in preceding messages and quotes of information.
3) Dido..

You are right, as Socialists, we should support a fight for Self-Determination and Independence. But the problem is the idiotic fear of communism (as influenced by the Western Media and Taiwan herself) + historical facts showed that the people of the two lands share the same blood + it would be the Chinese people's (also worldwide communists') fortune if Hong Kong, China and Taiwan unites as a big and powerful nation.

I see your point in saying that China is drifting away from socialism, but bear in mind, the reason for China to run capitalist for the being is probably for the hope of building stronger socialism in the near future. If China re-unites the 3 lands, it is then a powerful deterence to U.S.'s imperialism and conducive to spreadin the gospel of communism.

Please answer my example of the son and the mother, I wish to hear your feedback too.

Fidelbrand

17th April 2004, 20:28

Originally posted by International Chairman [email protected] 17 2004, 03:19 PM
Well,the relationship between China and the North Korea is really special!
China gives most of its financial aids 2 North Korea and the rest 2 Vietnam and some other African countries every year.And at the same time China still has a really good relationship with the ROK which made Pyongyang not happy.and the relationship between China and the ROK is getting better and better esp in the economic field.
China still protect the his benefit in North Korea.China has already cut down the number of its army because the North Korea still have a tremendous number of its Army which is considered 2 be the power 2 pretect the Socialist Party of East Asia.and of course the cost of the Army most comes from the financial aids from china.

Chairman Mao:i don't think the boarder between China and the North Korea is a problem.Because one of my classmate is from the boarder area and he told me that there were a large number of trade.And as u know,there r millions of korean living in china as a minority race so i don't think the boarder should be a problem.But our discusion can still go on if u know something deep under the surface.

Shane:i really don't know what kinda reaction will our Party have?But i think it's will be cpmplicated.our leader will think about many parts of benefits including the ralationship with ROK,the u.s and Japan.But anyway so far it looked useless about the American's Intervation.

Fidelbrand:thanks for the chinese word 谢谢 and it really made me happy!thanks!
China also aid in helping Cuba to rebuild itself when a huge typhoon struck Cuba few years ago. Jiang had intimate personal relationships with Castro. All school uniforms in Cuba are made by China. China is zealous in supporting minorities and its socialist/communist companeros~ ;)

VukBZ2005

18th April 2004, 01:51

Originally posted by Fidelbrand+Apr 17 2004, 08:17 PM--> (Fidelbrand @ Apr 17 2004, 08:17 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2004, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 11:28 AM

[email protected] 13 2004, 06:22 PM
Fidelbrand - No matter how you think - Taiwan is and should be independent
of China. Self-Determination of the lands and of the people irregardless - is
a human right. That right should be extended to Taiwan.
Linux, no matter what I think , the truth is on your side. :lol:
At first i thought this is quite an interesting topic to discuss.. can't believe you ended it like that. :rolleyes:

Anyway, as for determination.... E.g. A boy is departed from his mother for some years, he of course has the self-determination and human right to refute recognization from his mother. :D Don't throw the notion of human right and self-detrmination like a cappie~
Why do you question the Self-Determination of the Taiwanese People?
why do you think that Taiwan should be a part of China for?
Why do you do not Support Taiwanese independence?

Look - if a area wants to be independent from another nation -
We, as Socialists Should support a fight for Self-Determination and Independence.
The Taiwanese want to be independent of china - We Should
respect that right. Self-Determination is a right of Human beings and
lands all over the globe. I'm not Supporting China - as the CCP has drifted
away from the idea and the values of Socialism.
Answering your questions 1 by 1..
1) I do not question the Self-Determination of the Taiwanese People. In fact, many Taiwanese people regard themselves as Chinese and they want to reunite with China. A funny example--->Pop singers sing songs about themselves as Chinese , saying that they are the descents of the dragon(sometimes they are detered by the Taiwanese government :P ) . Moreover, there is a larger amount of people declaring themselves as Chinese in Taiwan as their ancestry traces back to FuJian (a province of China). Actually, do you know that the people and language of Hakka is orignated in China?
Self determination is invaluable, I never have a belief that the PRC should invade and coerce Taiwan to reunite with it, but i do believe, that the two straits will unite, it is just a matter of time.
2) Answered in preceding messages and quotes of information.
3) Dido..

You are right, as Socialists, we should support a fight for Self-Determination and Independence. But the problem is the idiotic fear of communism (as influenced by the Western Media and Taiwan herself) + historical facts showed that the people of the two lands share the same blood + it would be the Chinese people's (also worldwide communists') fortune if Hong Kong, China and Taiwan unites as a big and powerful nation.

I see your point in saying that China is drifting away from socialism, but bear in mind, the reason for China to run capitalist for the being is probably for the hope of building stronger socialism in the near future. If China re-unites the 3 lands, it is then a powerful deterence to U.S.'s imperialism and conducive to spreadin the gospel of communism.

Please answer my example of the son and the mother, I wish to hear your feedback too. [/b]
I think your Example is OK.

i will have more to say on this later....

redstar2000

18th April 2004, 03:03

What an odd thread...on many levels.

Here we have a Chinese kid -- who doesn't know anything about communism -- joining a "communist" party that is busily engaged in building a new capitalist (and imperialist) society.

We have rhetoric about making China "rich" and "powerful"...no mention of communism at all.

It's claimed that there are still many "real communists" (actually Maoists) in that party...but I don't see how anyone could "know" that. As I understand it, the party is considering admitting capitalists to membership...eventually leadership, of course.

The suggestion that there should be another "Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution" in China is about as appealing to most Chinese as suggesting a few new earthquakes or floods.

I mean...the last one worked out so "well"! :o

Meanwhile, the kid is looking forward to "study abroad"...meaning he intends to "haul ass" as soon as he can. Probably he'll end up in Silicon Valley...and may even have the honor of being investigated by the FBI.

Then we have a discussion of "self-determination" for Taiwan -- completely meaningless as the indigenous inhabitants have lost all control and influence over their island long ago. You might just as well discuss self-determination for Hawaii.

And speculation over who China will "support" if the U.S. launches an imperialist war against North Korea...which is really funny when you stop and think about. China will happily sell anything either side wants to buy...but for hard currency payable in advance, of course. :lol:

This has to be one of the oddest threads in the history of Che-Lives. :blink:

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.vze.com)
A site about communist ideas

Shane

18th April 2004, 12:04

okay, Redstar, what do you think is the root cause of Chinas Increasing Dabble In Capitalism?

redstar2000

18th April 2004, 14:33

The "root cause" is that the whole idea that you can have a socialist (much less communist) society in a country full of peasants is, from a Marxist standpoint, a howling absurdity.

There were "socialists" and even "communists" before Marx and Engels. What those two guys demonstrated for the first time was that the kind of society that you could have depended on the technology of production that you had available to work with.

It doesn't matter how radical the rhetoric you use; in a pre-capitalist, predominately peasant country, the next stage of its development is capitalism.

The central Maoist illusion is that by "magic" or "will power" you can "skip" capitalism and go directly to socialism.

Maoism is a way to make bourgeois revolutions without calling them that.

It's interesting to note, by the way, how much China today resembles the United States of, say, 1900. The same sharp contrasts between a wealthy elite and a mass of exploited and defenseless laborers; the same rhetoric about "becoming rich" and building a "great nation", etc. If some academic lefty reads this thread and is looking for a thesis topic, that would be a good one: The Emergence of Capitalism Triumphant; America in 1900 and China in 2000. I suspect there are scores of parallels, both material and ideological. (Much the same is also the case with Russia; they even have their own "robber barons" now.)

Material reality prevails.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.vze.com)
A site about communist ideas

DaCuBaN

18th April 2004, 14:45

I've always hoped that the situation in China was more of a fad, and once they'd abused the capitalist system they'd take the step onto communism as the theory goes. I like the comparison between China and USA though.... especially when you consider both nations in one way or another are having their cake and eating it :D :lol:

Saint-Just

18th April 2004, 14:56

i see, thanks, TBH i did not know China and N. Korea had bad relations. Do you not feel a world Superpower like China should be doing more to Oppose western Capitlism, maybe even doing more to Spread Communism in Asia?

China wants to keep basic relations (through trade) for security reasons and that in the future there will be a basis to form even stronger trade relations. That is why there is aid. But the relationship is not good, China worries about the DPRK nuclear situation and would prefer it it could gain economic advantage from trade with North Korea. China trades well with the ROK, and the DPRRK still possesses some hostility towards the ROK. The DPRK is changing though, in the future this will change as the DPRK becomes a capitalist country.

Chairman Mao:i don't think the boarder between China and the North Korea is a problem.Because one of my classmate is from the boarder area and he told me that there were a large number of trade.And as u know,there r millions of korean living in china as a minority race so i don't think the boarder should be a problem.But our discusion can still go on if u know something deep under the surface.

You are not understanding what I am saying. The border of any country is a concern as to the security of the nation. But China is not under and great thread, so it has little concern over its border with the DPRK, but it is always mindful of it, as any country is. There is no other concern over the border for China, apart from a small concern about immigrants.

No, China has cut off all military backing for N.Korea, but the U.S can't invade as part of the treaty signed at the end of the Korean War. Our only hope is that N.Korea collapses from the inside.

U.S. has already broken all other agreements over the region. Its illegal, according to international convention, to invade any country, but it won't stop the U.S.

Why would anyone on the left, a Marxist indeed, hope that the DPRK 'collapses'. The economic collapse of the DPRK, including the starvation, is the plan of the U.S. to destroy socialism in the DPRK without military intervention. Anyway, your hope is being realised, it looks inevitable now that the DPRK will become a country like China, an oppressive, capitalist system, more oppressive than the U.S.

The suggestion that there should be another "Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution" in China is about as appealing to most Chinese as suggesting a few new earthquakes or floods.

The GPCR did not work out as planned. Although neither did it work out badly. It did not affect most Chinese people in a bad way.