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perception
9th April 2004, 16:01
of pain and pleasure

There are some among us who would convince us that man has been placed on earth to suffer. It is for wont of suffering that they label pleasure as pain and pain as pleasure. They convince themselves to feel guilty for experiencing or pursuing happiness; they label sensual pleasures as sins and indulgences. What nonsense is this? There is nothing sinful about happiness, no more than there is anything noble about suffering. That 'the meek shall inherit the earth' is a lie. The meek shall inherit the same thing for their efforts as the wealthy and wicked shall inherit for theirs: death. Human beings are scared of earthly happiness, for it is unfamiliar. Pain, on the other hand, is familiar; pain is comfortable. We reconcile our fear of happiness by imagining our suffering as righteous, and casting the happiness of others as sin to be repented from. But it is because they believe that they will receive infinite pleasure in the next life that they forgo it in this one; there is nothing noble about their deprivation.

On the other hand, the ascetics view deprivation as freedom. They seek to free themselves from want and desire in order to free themselves from suffering; they mean to separate the soul from the body. This doctrine has some merit to it. Kant distinguishes ‘animal will’ as a will which is determined by stimuli and impulse, and ‘free will’ as a will that can be determined by pure reason. As human beings, the degree to which our will is affected by impulse, and hence desire, is the degree to which we cannot use pure reason. The freer one is from desire and the pursuit of sensual pleasures, the freer one is to use the faculties of reason.

But to completely free one’s self from sensual pleasure is to free one’s self from animalistic desire; and that denies the very fundamental point that we are, at base, animals. The quest for self-realization can lead us astray of this point; in our search for purpose, it is common to imagine ourselves more than human, something supernatural or divine. This is folly. The first step to self-realization is realizing that you are an animal. You are, however, a very special animal; one with a very well-developed ability to reason. To deny our desires is misguided. To harness them and bring them under our control is infinitely more valuable. Our reason should be the tool with which we satisfy our wants and desires, our impulses and instincts, to the greatest degree possible.

Purple
13th April 2004, 08:18
trying to say that pain & pleasure is something negative?

cubist
13th April 2004, 11:28
i find pain quite pleasrable ;) ;) often laugh lots when i hurt my self, and main pleasurable things are painful, like sex repeatedly for a few days,

dark fairy
16th April 2004, 01:31
I don't know but certain pain is pleasureable... like the wipping me and my friend do i find that very fun, fun more than pleasureable

encore
20th April 2004, 01:18
If we all persue pleasure (like many of us do), the world becomes chaotic and extremely capitalistic; however if we were all to persue agony to liberate our peers, right civil injustices, etc., what would be the point of living if pleasure was devoid from our existance?

We must strive for an equalibrium, to acheive this, we must harness and control our desires, as perception said. Only in this can be receive peace.

......maybe.

dark fairy
20th April 2004, 01:47
the world is chaotic... damn there is some crazy shit going on... like goddamn... that and the country i live in there is a lot of freedom so people do whatever the fuck they want :unsure:

RedAnarchist
21st April 2004, 08:56
Pain and pleasure are different in each individual. What some may consider pain, other may consider pleasure.

perception
21st April 2004, 14:44
dman, ya'll really missed the point of that...

dark fairy
22nd April 2004, 06:11
what were you trying to tell us or make us see???

dopediana
22nd April 2004, 07:54
i think he's trying to make a point about the ridiculousness of things such as morality which tell us not to have sex or sing or laugh or be happy because that brings about "idleness" which is a "sin." we're too afraid to try new things that we might enjoy so we cast them in a negative light because it's easy to retreat into fear. religion is silly and there's nothing to wait for in the afterlife, it's all right here right now which is why "the meek shall inherit the earth" is bs. they die like we all do. just because we're humans and think we have a higher plane of thought doesn't mean we should kid ourselves with psychological superiority.

perception
24th April 2004, 03:44
Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2004, 02:54 AM
i think he's trying to make a point about the ridiculousness of things such as morality which tell us not to have sex or sing or laugh or be happy because that brings about "idleness" which is a "sin." we're too afraid to try new things that we might enjoy so we cast them in a negative light because it's easy to retreat into fear. religion is silly and there's nothing to wait for in the afterlife, it's all right here right now which is why "the meek shall inherit the earth" is bs. they die like we all do. just because we're humans and think we have a higher plane of thought doesn't mean we should kid ourselves with psychological superiority.
;)

bingo