North Korea - The Bad Boy of The Communist Movment

[il Commie]

What are your thoughts about DPRK? Are there any real supporters of it here?

What should be our communist respond if the thing about the gas chambers turns out to be real (unlike Saddam's WMD) ?

How can the DPRK be changed from a degenerated workers' state into a socialist democracy?

How can we show the difference between DPRK and Cuba, to ourselves and to capitalists we argue with?

And what the fuck is Juche?! (except the famous quote by Kim Il Sung about the people owning the revolution etc...)

[kingbee]

juche- basically like nazi autarky- that is, self sufficency, not having to rely on the outside world (despite the aid money that goes in). it is also something like how man is different to animals- he builds shelter, can think wilfully, or something.

i think that cuba is different to n korea, in the fact that it seems like the people do genuinely profit from the government- the high life expectancy, etc, especially in the face of the embargo- while north korea has a massive trade partner on its doorstep (china).

i personally dont think that it can be created into a genuine socialist democracy- its degenerated too much into authotarianism, and buereaucracy. the only way it will come along is if/when it falls, into capitalism, then perhaps maybe it can develop from there- but i dont think it can develop in anyway at the current time.

i dont really know where i stand on korea. i know that kim jongil is a "ruthless dictator", but this label comes from the same people who condemn castro, and the revolutions achievements there. ie- a lot of it is propoganda. maybe there is famine- but in drpk, its the governments fault, while in a third world country, where most of the profits and luxuries go to the top (as in dprk), it is seen as a humintarian disaster.

[Fidelbrand]

I would say that Cuba is being stigmatised by the Western capitalist media, but for N . Korea... NO.

As far as i remember:

1)Women in jails are raped, when they have babies, they are forced to work stressfully in order for the baby to be killed inside their body~
2)People who wish to flee to S.Korea or China , if caught and sent back , is severely tortured in prisons, and the whole family has to suffer because of this criminal.
3)Nuclear advancements........ but people are starving and dieing... 1 million people has died because of starving.
4)A N.Korean boy who fled to china is now studying in a Chinese Korean Schoool, he talked a lot about how people died eating tree trunks in the country-side.
5)Kim jong il jailed babies born in threes because his advisor told him that these triplets is a threat to his throne. A hospital is built in a rural area with 2 miles of the site heavily guarded by the military. These triplets are tortured and made crazy.... The UN documented this alleged human disaster in 1999.

I saw and hear all these from a documentary from HK, these information are provided by a voluntary organization which comprised of N.Koreans who have eye-witnessed or expereinced these mis-happenings.

[TC]

Read this by the National Lawyers Guild, the origional American leftwing legal group:


DPRK (http://www.nlg.org/programs/international/North_Korean_Delegation_Report2003.pdf)

[Hate Is Art]

thats very interesting TC, i read the first 12 pages but I need a break now :D
That report is very good at providing un-biased infomation on the DRPK.

[Fidelbrand]

left wing for left wings.....
This is why the cappie / restricted members lambasted us for over-protecting our ideologies and said that we have biases in certain matters too... please... get real.

Un-biased information. I wish so , i sincerely wish so ..... no bull.

It is easy to justify what one likes, then to refute it.
DPRK notoriously gives a bad name to communism, socialism. Have u guys seen personal interviews of exiled N.Koreans? they can really give you some heart-breaking and shocking realities of how the country is torturing its people.

[Hate Is Art]

have you ever read any interviews with exiled Cuban's? they really give you some heart-breaking storys of how Castro is torturing their country!

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by Digital [email protected] 9 2004, 01:01 PM
have you ever read any interviews with exiled Cuban's? they really give you some heart-breaking storys of how Castro is torturing their country!
please give me some examples of what they said.....

To say a few words, the economy is growing, no one is starving... but of course in terms of diversity of consumer goods, sure it is in lack of, but literally, no one is starving. For political dissidents, every country has their own rule for enacting laws on its own to prohibit any act of treason, secession, sedition, subversion against its own government. For those dissidents who fled for economic reasons, if they wanna open their arse for the fuck of capitalism , then let it be. Cuba grants rights to 20000 people to flee to US.

P.s. Comrade Digital Nirvana, really.... i swear i won't do anything to hurt a socialist/communist country~ We leftists do not do injustice, but we really have to probe into places and materials that we sometimes found hard to accept.

[Saint-Just]

DPRK is a big victim of a U.S. campaign against it. These propaganda techniques were used in the Cold War. It helps the U.S. apply their anti-Communist foreign policy. The U.S. has a policy to cause economic collapse in the DPRK, this is why it brought sanctions on the DPRK. It uses the propaganda to bring justification in the intenrational community for its sanctions that are really nothing but part of a completely outdated cold war attitude.

This is an article about the reports on N.Koreans who have eye-witnessed or expereinced these mis-happenings.

Kang Pyong Sop and his family who are makers of false documents about the "experiment of chemical weapons on human bodies" in the DPRK called a press conference at the People's Palace of Culture here Tuesday to clarify the truth behind the false report about this experiment in the DPRK released by media of south Korea and the West. He said:
There are five members in my family including myself, my wife, two sons and a daughter who is married.
The documents on "experiment of chemical weapons on human bodies" widely misused by enemies were false documents fabricated by my first son Kang Song Guk, who defected to the south seven years ago, and my family, he said, disclosing the truth of the case before Korean and foreign journalists as the maker, observer and witness of those false documents.
He continued:
We received messages from our first son on several occasions, saying that he had caused many troubles to his parents and requesting us to meet him in China so that he could give us some money. So I crossed the border illegally with my wife on the 29th of August last year and met him in Yanji. And in early November I met my second son Song Hak there, too.
Song Guk said to his parents that if they would say that they had brought important information about "the experiment of chemical weapons on human bodies" at a workshop in the February 8 Vinalon Complex where his father works, they would be given a huge sum of money by human rights organizations in the south.
When I said the production of chemical weapons was unthinkable at my complex, my son told me that he would prepare documents, insisting that those human rights organizations in the south would simply believe that the complex is a chemical factory and may produce such things.
Then Song Guk took several papers out of a cardboard box on which such letters as "Certificate of Transfer", "name, sex, date of birth", "place of birth" and "place of residence" are printed.
Then he asked me to recall the names of those who died in one or two years back.
We wrote the name of Rim Chun Hwa, elder maternal cousin, on one paper. He worked as a farmer in Sinhung County, South Hamgyong Province and died of an illness. Names of four more people were written on separate papers though we knew nothing of them.
I told my son Song Guk that "songmyong" and "saengnyonwolil" (which means 'name' and 'date of birth' in the Korean translation of old Chinese characters) are not used in documents in the DPRK but 'irum' and 'nannal' (which means the same, but is a pure Korean language) are used. When I told him what was the use of making such false documents, he reproached me instead, saying that he would take care of everything.
He said that his handwriting would not do because they would easily recognize it. Then he asked me to write a few letters. As my handwriting looked bad, he asked his brother Song Hak, a university graduate, to copy it from a draft paper. He then took out a seal and an ink-pad from a box and stamped the false documents with a seal.
When seeing that seal, I knew that the seal was a fake because the national emblem on the seal was not real. The mountain above the hydro-power station was not Mt. Paektu, but an ordinary mountain and there was only a dam without any generating house beside it.
This is the real story about how false documents about the "experiment of chemical weapons on human bodies" which we have never witnessed or heard of and which has never taken place came into being and were delivered to the south by Song Guk.
The fabrication of false documents was, in the long run, a criminal act that tarnished the image of the dignified DPRK.
Kang Song Hak, who had been enticed into writing out the false documents, said:
My brother said that we were doing it to make a large sum of money. But I think that it was a political farce orchestrated before we went to China.
My brother was idle from his early years and did not like to study at all. It is hard to believe that such false documents were invented by my brother's head.
I think that my brother was allured by some agents who sought to isolate and stifle the DPRK and tempted us to fabricate the false documents about the non-existent "experiment of chemical weapons on human bodies".
Speaking of how the false documents were written, Song Hak said in the "certificate of transfer" in the name of Rim Chun Hwa, he put Rim's place of birth as "Huinsil-dong, Sapho District, Hungnam City, South Hamgyong Province." But Sapho District is in Hamhung City, not Hungnam City. As I filled in what my elder brother dictated, I wrote down a wrong name which hardly be found among the administrative districts of the DPRK.
My elder brother waited for the sealed space of the papers to get completely dry before crumpling them and putting them in water.
Then he took out and spread all the papers before drying them again. When I asked him why he was doing like that, he answered it was necessary to make any examiner to take them for real, not for false ones.
This was how I wrote the horrifying false documents on the DPRK's alleged "experiment of chemical weapons on human bodies" the kind of which the Nazi Germany committed against POWs during World War II and which I had only seen in movies.
Kang Song Hak then showed his handwriting to the journalists.
Daughter Kang Hye Yong said:
My motherland showed leniency to my family for our frank confession of crimes, and allowed us to live together as before after we returned home. I've been hearing about and experiencing the benevolent and all-embracing politics of the Workers' Party of Korea and the Government of the DPRK time and again but I've never felt it so keenly and deeply as now.


maybe there is famine- but in drpk, its the governments fault, while in a third world country, where most of the profits and luxuries go to the top (as in dprk), it is seen as a humintarian disaster.

Amnesty International says the food problems are down to the following:

The food shortages in North Korea have many causes including:

· constraints within the country's economic system
· the collapse of strategic economic ties on which the economy depended following the break-up of the Soviet Union in 1991, and the decline in trade with China following its normalization of relations with South Korea
· natural disasters

More details:

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engasa240032004

[Comrade Raz]

There is no doubt that the DPRK is fucked up and no where communist as it claims it is. The situation is obviously overblown by the US and what kingbee said about DPRK being to deformed to become a flourishing socialist state is alos true. It is a fact that the actions of the government in North Korea are not the major cause of famine in the country, but even so it does some pretty fucked up things.

[Fidelbrand]

Chairman Mao,
thanks for the info, but the link you provide seems to support the argument that DPRK is violating the citizens' basic human rights - --> the right to subsistence and the right not to be tortured.

Below are some quoted paragraphs provided by the link:

yet government policy still prevents the swift and equitable distribution of this aid, while the population is denied the right to freedom of movement, which would enable people to go and search for food.

In North Korea, the interdependency of rights, and the linkages between violations of these rights has been starkly illustrated during the famine and the ongoing food crisis. People who have sought desperately to assert their right to food - by moving around the country to search for it, by crossing the border into China, by eating what they find - have then been subjected to violations of other rights, as the North Korean authorities arrest, detain and in some cases even reportedly torture and execute them.

6.1 Increased human rights violations in response to the famine and food crisis

AI has long been concerned about systemic human rights violations by the North Korean government, including reports of torture, public executions and the imposition of the death penalty for political reasons. There have long been reports of an extensive system of prison camps where conditions fall short of minimum international standards and where forced labour is commonplace. Restrictions on the rights to freedom of thought, conscience, religion, opinion and expression, peaceful assembly and association and on access to information remain, while the right to freedom of movement is severely curtailed. Amnesty International believes that a wider spectrum of the population, including women and children, have been affected by human rights violations as a result of the famine and food crisis. In particular, as more and more people sought to move - both within the country and across the border - in order to find food, so they became vulnerable to violations which in the past may not have affected them.

However, holding a liberal perspective, I m bold to say that i m so confused with the information we have on DPRK... so many different opinions and all seemingly justifiable. The countrie's closed-door policy (either because of U.S. 's deliberate intention to isolate it OR its own intention isolate itself purposefully for dicatoring reasons) has contributed to our mis-understanding of this country.

.. in the long run , I 'll continue to stay an eye on this country and to search for more concrete facts.

[il Commie]

Chairman Mao, I didn't fully understand the quote you brought, my English betrayed me. Could you please summarize in a few words?

Was the press confrence inside DPRK (I guess, since no one else calls a place "People's Palace of Culture")? If yes, don't you think the guy was told what to say?


And do you really think this is all a western propaganda? I mean, DPRK does have very autocratic tendencies. And the american war in Korea did created great degeneration in the regime, which made it go far from Socialism more than it was to begin with.

Cuba is at the heart of imperialism. It is under an embargo for many years. But democracy is very advanced in Cuba, the elections to the councils and parliament are free. And there is no hunger in Cuba, though the embargo and the poverty, infact they have a very good welfare system. Humanist organizations admits that, and the only thing they're picking on (they have to have something since they hate Socialism) is the way Cuba treats political prisoners.

But I can't say those thing on DPRK. They're not on the border of america, infact they have a big trade partner in the north (though China has it own problems). They have as much natural resources as Cuba. But still, the leaders are rich and the people starve. There are many reports about tourtures and police state in DPRK, and frankly, I doubt if they're all false western propaganda.

We communists must be very careful, because our experience with calling Stalin "sun of nations" and the stories about him imperialist propaganda, and at the end he turned up to kill 30 million people. I believe Kim Jong Il is just like Stalin, we must treat DPRK much differently than the imperialist, but still calling it 'Socialism' stains the name of our ideology.

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by il [email protected] 9 2004, 06:22 PM
Humanist organizations admits that, and the only thing they're picking on (they have to have something since they hate Socialism) is the way Cuba treats political prisoners.
I agree with all what you said,
but Fidel also has something to say, only to the above paragraph..

Fidel said,

"You can tour the U.S, Europe, and Latin America, and I doubt that you'll find a more humane penitentiary system. Now, a prison isn't a tourist hotel; being in a prison isn't anything like being on a vacation, in Cuba or anywhere else."

&

"But I will say that around 800 individuals are in prison now for having carried out counter-revolutionary activities of greater or lesser importance; there are a few dozen in for serious crimes, serving long terms for crimes comitted under the system, but there aren't many of them, because we 've been setting them free. When Carter was president, there were 3000, and we set 2000 free."

&

"Visiting priviledges can be withdrawn upon bad behaviour... If a prisoner doesn't want to get dressed, we do not use violence; we use some disciplinary measures, but not violence. They may have had that kind of difficulty."

all quoted from "An ecounter with Fidel"
An interview by Gianni Mina
Translated by Mary Todd.

[il Commie]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 9 2004, 05:46 PM
There is no doubt that the DPRK is fucked up and no where communist as it claims it is. The situation is obviously overblown by the US and what kingbee said about DPRK being to deformed to become a flourishing socialist state is alos true. It is a fact that the actions of the government in North Korea are not the major cause of famine in the country, but even so it does some pretty fucked up things.
So you think there's no hope at all for DPRK? You don't think the people will be able to rebel and make the deformed workers' state a socialist one?

[LuZhiming]

I don't want to get involved with any of these arguements directly, but let me put it simply. Anyone can find out that without a doubt, there are huge restrictions on any foreign media or Human Rights monitors getting much access to North Korea. It also well-known that for some reason, it is extremely difficult for anyone to get into North Korea. Anyone here can find that out easily, if you want to be dramatic, try finding a way to go to North Korea yourself. With that out of the way, and the obvious limitations on information such restrictions would present, look at the reports by Amnesty International on that country: http://web.amnesty.org/library/eng-prk/index

[Comrade Raz]

Originally posted by il [email protected] 9 2004, 08:26 PM
So you think there's no hope at all for DPRK? You don't think the people will be able to rebel and make the deformed workers' state a socialist one?
There may be a little hope in DPRK, but i think it would be more likely to become a socialist state if it returned to capitalism first, as the people who are living in NK are probably under the illusion that the state is really socialist/communist and so a communist rebellion for the people is unlikely to brake out. Where as in a capitalist system the people know that the state is exploiting the people in the name of capitalism and see communism or socialism or even anarchism as an alternative.

[redstar2000]

North Korea's "Great Leader" -- Oriental Despot? May 9, 2003 (http://www.anarchist-action.org/marxists/redstar2000/monthlytheoryarchives.php?subaction=showfull&id=1052406367&archive=1054467213&cnshow=archive&start_from=&ucat=&)

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.vze.com)
A site about communist ideas

[Saint-Just]

Chairman Mao,
thanks for the info, but the link you provide seems to support the argument that DPRK is violating the citizens' basic human rights - --> the right to subsistence and the right not to be tortured.

I believe so-called reports from people who escaped the DPRK and then get put up by the South Korean authorities are not totally truthful. Amnesty Internation takes these reports from a handful of individuals to be true and then assumes that anyone stopped from crossing the border was probably tortured.

It is true that the DPRK does not let people into China, but most countries have borders which you can only cross with permission. And China doesn't want any refugees entering the country. There are people who are able to make the trip to China, but if you read any humanitarian reports you will notice that they return to the DPRK, they return with food.


Chairman Mao, I didn't fully understand the quote you brought, my English betrayed me. Could you please summarize in a few words?

Yes, it was in the DPRK. What is said was a family member who left the country got him to forge documents inside the DPRK for money.


But I can't say those thing on DPRK. They're not on the border of america, infact they have a big trade partner in the north (though China has it own problems). They have as much natural resources as Cuba. But still, the leaders are rich and the people starve. There are many reports about tourtures and police state in DPRK, and frankly, I doubt if they're all false western propaganda.

DPRK trades little with China as it said in the report since China normalised relationships with the extreme-right wing government in South Korea (SK is the 14th biggest economy in the world so it is not suprising). In the DPRK there are some natural resources, however in terms of food it is extremely difficult to cultivate crops. Most of the country is mountaneous and of poor soil quality. When Korea was united they grew all the food in the South and generated electricity in the North. The United States and the ROK have cold war-esque campaign against the DPRK. ROK wants a Korea united under the right-wing government of the South, they both want to destroy socialism and make money.

The U.S. will make its propaganda quite convincing, they just spread stories and the South Koreans have a few people to back them up. Enough to make it convincing.

The DPRK could be forcing this person to say these things about faked documents. However, based on everything I know about the DPRK I would tend to side with the DPRK on an issue for which there is no clear evidence.

All you hear about the DPRK are these negative stories. But it is good to hear about the positive aspects of socialism in the DPRK, then you can see what a dramatically different society it is to capitalist society and how great socialist ideals are.

[il Commie]

Wouldn't it all be much more easier if they'll just open camp 22 for the world to see?

I mean, as a communist I hate even the possibility of a state calling itself 'socialist' operating gas chambers. Not to speak about my jewish feelings despising these sort of things.

And how come there are no horror stories about tortures and mass executions in Cuba? I doubt if the USA wants to bring down Castro less than it wants to bring down Kim Jong Il.

[Fidelbrand]

As regards to torturing, it is pretty much of a debate. Some organisations have interviewed those who have successfully fled from DPRK and revealed that torturing is existent. I saw on TV a woman whose legs was damaged pemanently while she was in jail, guards kept hitting her from behind her legs while she was laboring, which made her unable to dance (she was a dancer). She fled to S.Korea and started teaching N.Korea culture and dance culture as she is still patriotic, but, hoping for some brighter advancements in her home country and for the unification of the 2 koreas.

"Return to the DPRK, they return with food" ------> that's the crux of the problem. A socialist / communist country unable to uphold its egalitarian perspective (one of the biggest merits of any socialist/communist regimes) and not able to physiologically support its people, but having its citizens to bring food back home? Isn't that bit of a bizzare tragedy? It is alleged that the country is advancing its military capacities in full speed, whether the answer is yes or no, and of course I know that serious femine has struck this nation, but..... the fact is that this country is simply not working up to standards. I therefore agree to il commie's title of this thread that DPRK is "The Bad Boy of The Communist Movment".

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by il [email protected] 10 2004, 04:07 PM
And how come there are no horror stories about tortures and mass executions in Cuba? I doubt if the USA wants to bring down Castro less than it wants to bring down Kim Jong Il.
Mass executions----> As i recall from the programme (not western media that aims to stagmatise communist regimes for stagmatising's sake) i saw about 1 week ago, in the morning assemply, the prisoners has to eye-witness executions of other prisoners before they start their laboring.

Food in prisons is not ample. Rats in prisons are caught and ate fresh.

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2004, 08:56 PM


"Return to the DPRK, they return with food" ------> that's the crux of the problem. A socialist / communist country unable to uphold its egalitarian perspective (one of the biggest merits of any socialist/communist regimes) and not able to physiologically support its people, but having its citizens to being food back home? Isn't that bit of a bizzare tragedy? It is alleged that the country is advancing its military capacities in full speed, whether the answer is yes or no, and of course I know that serious femine has struck this nation, but..... the fact is this country is simply not working up to standards. I therefore agree to il commie's title of this thread that DPRK is "The Bad Boy of The Communist Movment".

As regards to torturing, it is pretty much of a debate. Some organisations have interviewed those who have successfully fled from DPRK and revealed that torturing is existent. I saw on TV a woman whose legs was damaged pemanently while she was in jail, guards kept hitting her from behind her legs while she was laboring, which made her unable to dance (she was a dancer). She fled to S.Korea and started teaching N.Korea culture and dance culture as she is still patriot, but, hoping for some brighter advancements in her home country and for the unification of the 2 koreas.

Korean culture is North Korean culture. The vision of unification for some people is not unification of Korea but the submission of the entire peninsula to U.S. imperialism. The story sounds nice, but the reality of it is that if the DPRK is destroyed the North will be subjected to the terror and harsh realities of U.S. imperialism and capitalism, which is very bad.


"Return to the DPRK, they return with food" ------> that's the crux of the problem. A socialist / communist country unable to uphold its egalitarian perspective (one of the biggest merits of any socialist/communist regimes) and not able to physiologically support its people, but having its citizens to being food back home? Isn't that bit of a bizzare tragedy? It is alleged that the country is advancing its military capacities in full speed, whether the answer is yes or no, and of course I know that serious femine has struck this nation, but..... the fact is this country is simply not working up to standards. I therefore agree to il commie's title of this thread that DPRK is "The Bad Boy of The Communist Movment".

It is very true that the greatest merit of socialist society is egalitie. In the DPRK they abolished taxes, only profits were taxed, 100%. Wage bands became narrow and workers received all they needed to live a comfortable life. But now they do have big problems.

[Fidelbrand]

"Korean culture is North Korean culture." ------&#62; what a statement&#33;&#33; i should say nothing more but to let you probe into the details of the 2 cultures. <_<

"if the DPRK is destroyed the North will be subjected to the terror and harsh realities of U.S. imperialism and capitalism, which is very bad." ----&#62; So this is a good and sound excuse for the DPRK to keep up with their inefficiencies in maintaining the livelihood of the people and the alleged (being very courteous here) torturing that is excercised on their people?..... So , what should we say ? Keep up with the effort in giving a bad name to socilaism just because it will be subjected to the terror and harsh realities of U.S. imperialism and capitalism if it is destroyed?

[GUTB]

I&#39;m sorry, but North Korea is an intensely reactionary, counter-revolutionary cespool like China -- speaking of which, where in hell was the so-called "Chinese Communists" with North Korea suffering from such terrible humanitarian crises?

These videos sum up the sad state of North Korea:

http://www.robpongi.com/pages/comboGRAPESOFLOVE.html
http://www.robpongi.com/pages/comboKIMJONGIL.html

[TC]

...because you can learn a lot about a society from a few minutes clip of a poorly produced childrens television show...in translation by unknown sources.

[GUTB]

The children&#39;s show video was cute, but check out the second one. If that doesn&#39;t clue you in, I can&#39;t help you.

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2004, 05:09 AM
"Korean culture is North Korean culture." ------&#62; what a statement&#33;&#33; i should say nothing more but to let you probe into the details of the 2 cultures. <_<

"if the DPRK is destroyed the North will be subjected to the terror and harsh realities of U.S. imperialism and capitalism, which is very bad." ----&#62; So this is a good and sound excuse for the DPRK to keep up with their inefficiencies in maintaining the livelihood of the people and the alleged (being very courteous here) torturing that is excercised on their people?..... So , what should we say ? Keep up with the effort in giving a bad name to socilaism just because it will be subjected to the terror and harsh realities of U.S. imperialism and capitalism if it is destroyed?
It depends what you mean when you talk about Korean culture. But it has been created over 5000 years and 5000, 5000 years of one culture. Korea was unified for hundreds of years up until the end of WWII. And, the anti-Japanese struggle that took place was one of all of Korea.

My point on unification was that the system in the North is better because it is not a terrible regime with torture and artificially created famines.


I&#39;m sorry, but North Korea is an intensely reactionary, counter-revolutionary cespool like China -- speaking of which, where in hell was the so-called "Chinese Communists" with North Korea suffering from such terrible humanitarian crises?

You were right about China, and far more people suffer in China than allegedly suffer in the DPRK.

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by Chairman [email protected] 12 2004, 12:37 PM
It depends what you mean when you talk about Korean culture. But it has been created over 5000 years and 5000, 5000 years of one culture. Korea was unified for hundreds of years up until the end of WWII. And, the anti-Japanese struggle that took place was one of all of Korea.

My point on unification was that the system in the North is better because it is not a terrible regime with torture and artificially created famines.


I don&#39;t know what it depends, chairman :lol: , of course what u said was true, but the fact is there is evolved difference in terms of culture between the two straits of land.

Your point is well acknowledged, but more facts to deny the torture part would make it more sound. For the 2nd or 3rd time, i know DPRK don&#39;t create famines, but the way the country is alledgedly developing its military capacities, but without adequate efforts in alleviating the tragics of the famine, already.... gives communism a bad name.

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2004, 05:08 PM
I don&#39;t know what it depends, chairman :lol: , of course what u said was true, but the fact is there is evolved difference in terms of culture between the two straits of land.

Your point is well acknowledged, but more facts to deny the torture part would make it more sound. For the 2nd or 3rd time, i know DPRK don&#39;t create famines, but the way the country is alledgedly developing its military capacities, but without adequate efforts in alleviating the tragics of the famine, already.... gives communism a bad name.
It depends if you mean modern culture or traditional culture.

This is a budget report:

The Second Session of the 11th Supreme People&#39;s Assembly of the DPRK held at the Mansudae Assembly Hall on March 25 discussed the fulfillment of the state budget for Juche 92 (2003) and the state budget for Juche 93 (2004). Finance Minister Mun Il Bong delivered a report on this.
He said:
The planned state budgetary revenue for last year was fulfilled at 100.9 per cent.
Last year all the people bought public bonds for people&#39;s life with the high consciousness of being citizens and patriotism. As a result, a large revenue from the public bonds was added to the state budget and not a small amount of funds were donated to the state.
The planned state budgetary expenditure was fulfilled at 98.2 per cent last year.
The government spent 15.7 per cent of the total budgetary expenditure for the defence industry and 23.3 per cent for the national economy.
40.5 per cent of the total budgetary expenditure was spent for carrying out various popular policies for the promotion of the people&#39;s welfare.
This year&#39;s state budgetary revenue is expected to increase 5.7 per cent over the previous year. The profits of state enterprises are expected to go up 16.5 per cent over the previous year and those of cooperative organizations and others are envisaged to markedly swell.
This year&#39;s state budgetary expenditure is expected to increase 8.6 per cent over last year to sufficiently meet the financial demands for conducting a general offensive on the three fronts of building a great prosperous powerful nation and implementing the Party&#39;s line of economic construction in the Songun era to the letter.
The government earmarked 15.5 per cent of this year&#39;s state budgetary expenditure for the defence industry with a view to completing the combat preparations of the People&#39;s Army, increasing the independence of the defence industry, stepping up modernization and informationalization and thus consolidating the country&#39;s defences as firm as an iron wall.
In order to reenergize the nation&#39;s economy as a whole this year the government will allocate huge funds for the fields of the national economy so as to keep the production in the mining, machine-building, chemical and building materials industries and forestry going at a steady rate and effect a new productive upswing in the light industry and the rural economy while channeling main efforts into the power, coal and metal industries and the railway transport.
This year more funds will go to the fields of city management and land and environmental protection than last year. 1.6 times more funds than last year will be earmarked for the development of science and technology including ultra-modern science, basic science and applied science.
Financial allocations for additional measures in this year&#39;s state budget will increase 8.1 percent over last year. Disbursement for education and public health will go up 9.5 per cent and 5.9 per cent respectively in the same period.

[Raisa]

Originally posted by il [email protected] 8 2004, 09:49 PM
What are your thoughts about DPRK? Are there any real supporters of it here?

What should be our communist respond if the thing about the gas chambers turns out to be real (unlike Saddam&#39;s WMD) ?

How can the DPRK be changed from a degenerated workers&#39; state into a socialist democracy?


My thoughts are that the stalinistic government is counter-revolutionary and is not helping the effort of communism, but is raping it instead.
It does not take a gas chamber for me to advocate action against their government, the other stories about people having to eat trees and babies and being totured is bad enough. The party officals of that country and their fat leader are enjoying themselves at the peoples expense.
The DPRK can be changed into a socialist democracy very simply by getting rid of the leadership and replacing it....with a new revolutionary leadership that stands by the people, like they deserve&#33;
But you never know....the "imperialists" might get there first.....
The horror stories from North Korea desgust just about every one, and can be exploited by some.

If the things we hear are really true (which I would not doubt them too much) then it is up to every true communist to support the people and not the leaders of North Korea. Those arent Communists&#33;

[Raisa]

Did any one who tryed to look at those vidoes be asked by the computer to download japanese fonts?
Does that cost money?

[Fidelbrand]

Chairman, what else can I say with that trusty report written by the good boy of communism?

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2004, 11:07 PM
Did any one who tryed to look at those vidoes be asked by the computer to download japanese fonts?
Does that cost money?
Raisa, from my experience, it cost nothing in monetary sense, but you have to pay some time to download it, that&#39;s it.