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Essential Insignificance
7th April 2004, 02:33
The role of Marxists

There are an abundance of Leninist and the analogous, whom premise that with out there, attendance with an "guiding hand"…. nothing will seldom accumulate to anything of ostentatious consequence in the itinerary of the proletarians, thus, the self comprehension of there disposition and there revolutionary effectiveness.

Lenin even going as far as to proclaim- "The working class, exclusively by its own effort, is able to develop only trade-union consciousness" and in further, "If socialism can only be realised when the intellectual development of all people permits it, then we shall not see socialism for at least 500 years..."

Is the latter quote, true, in quintessence or a total miscalculation of the proletarian ability of recognition of themselves and there potentiality as the precursors of the revolution and the eradication of class society and mass exploitation. The quote can be glanced upon with a critical eye and at the matching time, with a soupcon of veracity.

When will the proletarian in a capitalist nation become revolutionary…are proposal that quivers amid a cohort of Marxist. As I see….there is know definite response to the postulation…time shall notify.

I now conjecture to make it unambiguously eloquent that the emancipation of the proletarian class will be the vocation of themselves…for themselves. But indubitably now, what fraction should be played upon by the "conscious" Marxist, in the moment of revolution and from that subject the time aforementioned to the time previously referred to.

The cognisant Marxist, anarchists, communist and its deviations and even Leninist, ends are that of the equivalence…but what their incompatible hypothesise is, the means to the ends, an common idiom that plagues mankind. Each then would, accurately so, have contradictory customs and conceptions of what obligations "must" be taken by the "party".

Is the party an abstraction from the proletarian does it exclude itself into a "secret society" independent from the proletariat. A question that is sure to catalyst a lot of rebuttals.

Marx announced that the "emancipation of the workers must be act of the working class himself"-a very specific declaration. Now that it is unmistakably drawn upon in familiarity what responsibility, if any, is that of the Marxist in the liberation of the working class.

Marxist and the comparable "should" strive to hasten this progression up to the superlative....of their particular capability…"know more know less".

This must be provided through the medium of mass education and erudition... let the proletarian take its successive path of historical stipulation …time shall take its indentured course.

Time the pivotal fragment of the proletarian

El Che
7th April 2004, 03:28
Personally I'm against the vanguardist position. For various reasons. You will find alot of lucid non-leninist socialists here. Lots of debate on the subject in old threads.


Marx announced that the "emancipation of the workers must be act of the working class himself"

I found this interesting. Can you give me a source, if you have it?

Essential Insignificance
7th April 2004, 04:03
Yeah sure, the "Communist Manifesto", if you don’t have it nor read it...theres an link. It is not all that long, an good read at that.

Check this out (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch01.htm)

Wenty
8th April 2004, 22:52
How have the proletariat changed since Marx's time? Don't you think for modern Marxists this question is most important before we can go any further and think about the nature of revolution etc.

redstar2000
9th April 2004, 00:22
You have a very curious literary style, EI.


A question that is sure to catalyst a lot of rebuttals.

Catalyst is a noun, of course; catalyze is the verb form. I think the word you actually wanted here was generate.

Further, questions are not "rebutted" in the English language; it is arguments or conjectures that are rebutted.

This is the first post of yours that I've seen (since I've been away for a week or so). I think you should recall the purpose of a large vocabulary: to explain complex matters with greater than ordinary clarity and precision.

Thanks.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.vze.com)
A site about communist ideas

Guest1
9th April 2004, 01:52
Essential Insignificance, I just wanna make sure you're not taking these criticisms in the wrong way.

You're a very intelligent person, and have alot to bring to this site. I personally don't understand why people are taking it so seriously. I have a theory though.

We do have alot of other people on this site who have "peculiar literary style", but they don't really contribute much to the debate. Posts like that come up, the debate goes on.

I think in your case it's frustrating a bit, precisely because you seem intelligent and your posts are interesting.

So don't worry about it companero, don't let them get to you. It's just constructive criticism :)

Essential Insignificance
9th April 2004, 01:57
Lets not get to fastidious about things. I am sure that everyone’s posts on this board could be looked upon…its an message board, thus, its only ordinary that inaccuracies and imprecision’s "generate" from it.

Thanks for the suggestion; I’ll take it on board.

peaccenicked
9th April 2004, 02:43
The role of the 'Marxist' is merely to provide clarity to the political situation.
Defining the relationship between workers and 'Marxists' pivots round what is going on society. The movement of the different strands of thought given whatever label they encompass reflects the balance of class forces.
At a time when the marginalisation of the left in general is largely the dominant international trend, most of what happens within the bounds of ideological struggle
is peripheral to what events signify the collapse of imperialism.
Largely the problem relates to the ability of the left to produce a response that resonates with the needs of the development of the political culture of the working class and perhaps from this the criticism can be levelled that leftist routinism has lagged behind an elaborated consciousness of the world situation in favour of posing as the great conduits of social justice because of their pristine subjective assessment of what constitutes the moral high ground within their own heads. In that they merely define themselves in opposition to other leftists.
I do not confine that to any section of the left, it is well nigh universal.

Pedro Alonso Lopez
9th April 2004, 18:04
Originally posted by Essential [email protected] 9 2004, 01:57 AM
Lets not get to fastidious about things. I am sure that everyone’s posts on this board could be looked upon…its an message board, thus, its only ordinary that inaccuracies and imprecision’s "generate" from it.

Thanks for the suggestion; I’ll take it on board.

The problem is you sound like an English aristocrat. One must point out such things.

Just some of my own criticism since I am here, you must remember (I am an English student so this gets drilled into me daily) that words serve one purpose: to communicate your ideas (for the purposes of this board anyway) and you must remember that not everybody has acquired such a vocab as to understand your posts without a dictionary.

Personally I dont mind but you are going to get misunderstood.

One final note, your posts remind of Kant (studying the First Analogy at the moment) ;)

Misodoctakleidist
9th April 2004, 18:28
I think most of the confusion is created by his archaic grammer rather than his actual vocabulary, as redstar2000 pointed out he often uses the wrong form, he also tend to interchange 'their,' 'there,' and 'they're' which i find particularly confusing, although i probably do it alot myself without noticing.

EI, i think you should read through your posts before submitting them and correct grammatical errors and typos, that would make them alot easier to understand.

Guest1
9th April 2004, 21:21
Alright, let's back off now guys, leave him alone.

He's gotten the point, he'll take it into consideration. The next guy to bring it up gets hunted about grammar and vocabulary by me for the next month :P

leftist manson
12th April 2004, 10:31
hey guys
i've been wanting to ask this question for centuries .
the very guy on whose name this site came into being wasn't the kind of the orthodox marxist-leninist who believes in protracted class war and class struggle and class consciousness or did he.
i don't think that any of the guerillas in latin america do
the very word guerilla signifies that
what do you guys think?

Essential Insignificance
14th April 2004, 07:36
hey guys
i've been wanting to ask this question for centuries .
the very guy on whose name this site came into being wasn't the kind of the orthodox marxist-leninist who believes in protracted class war and class struggle and class consciousness or did he.
i don't think that any of the guerillas in latin america do
the very word guerilla signifies that
what do you guys think?

Well…that all depends upon what is preordained by the particular word, "orthodox".

He did classify himself as an "Marxist-Leninist" and properly an "Maoist".

He did believe in class warfare…but not the same as Marx, that is to say, different classes of warfare…if you like.