UK: First Abortion Pics on TV

[Saint-Just]

This is not about a debate on Abortion. So, this is not the appropriate forum. But people interested in the subject often post here.

At the end of the month, a programme called 'My Foetus' will show highly graphic and real film of a woman having a vacuum pump abortion, it will be the first pictures on UK TV ever of an abortion. The programme will also film the dead foetus. Some other foetuses will be shown, of 10-, 11- and 21-week old aborted foetuses. These will be the first pictures of aborted foetuses on UK TV. Previously, such pictures were banned.

Julia Black is the indepenent film maker creating this programme. She is the daughter of the founder of one of the largest abortion advice centres, the Marie Stopes Clinic. She is pro-choice, but in the programme both sides of the discussion will mentioned. Black and other pro-choice say that seeing aborted foetuses is important for women to realise the reality of abortion.


This is my own version of the front-page story in 04/04/04 The Observer.

[Loknar]

I see no problem with this, i believe that you should see what you advocate.

[BuyOurEverything]

It seems like a ploy to garner support for the anti-abortionists. Shock people into banning abortion. Most people have never seen a surgery of any kind before and aren't used to all the accompanying blood and gore.

[Loknar]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2004, 05:21 AM
It seems like a ploy to garner support for the anti-abortionists. Shock people into banning abortion. Most people have never seen a surgery of any kind before and aren't used to all the accompanying blood and gore.
they could turn t he TV off.....

[FatFreeMilk]

Most people have never seen a surgery of any kind before and aren't used to all the accompanying blood and gore.


They have shows of surgerys all the time. Abortion is a type of medical procedure so what the hell.

[(*]

sounds politically motivated.

[Saint-Just]

The woman who produced it is pro-choice, and the women filmed and the other women interviewed in the film are pro-choice. It is not a pro-choice film though, it is meant to give a balanced argument. A spokesperson for an abortion clinic said women should see the film so they can see the realities of abortion because it is a difficult choice. I don't think it is politically motivated. But it is true that pictures of dead foetuses do make people think pro-life.

[Hiero]

I dont see how, viewing a the "grossness" of an abortion should be used to change someones mind.
That would be like showing someone getting a tumour cut and it being gross whihc forces someone not to get it.
It shouldnt be about ohhhh thats grows i aint getting that done, i find that very imature if people change there minds based on that, it should be on the belief ever life gets a chance or its not a life or it doesnt mater if it dies then etc blah blah

[dopediana]

some anti-choice pics i found (graphic, so i linked):
http://www.web-ministry.com/abortion/1/11WeekAbortion.jpg
http://www.jonsplace.org/rel/abortion_pics/pic_11.jpg
if anyone really wants to see what an abortion looks like, go google some images. i guarantee you'll find some supergross pictures. but like george carlton said, they'll fight to the death for you while you're in the womb but once you're out of it they really couldn't care less about you, hence all the hating that welfare mothers receive, the starving babies in africa, and the shitty school systems all around the US.
so they're airing it? great. meanwhile, i also hope they discuss with the women why they're having abortions. i know a few women who have had abortions before, my mom included. it's not an easy decision to make. there's a measure of guilt involved but the pros and cons have to be weighed. children deserve a safe, quiet, and happy home with emotionally and financially stable parents. if we aren't prepared to give that to them it's best to stop it while they're unable to exist independently of our bodies. and don't give me any "they can feel it" stuff. i don't remember any of my life since before i was about 3 or 4. that might have been my true conception for all i know. there are many great things that can be done with stem cells. imagine, one abortion could instigate a medical revolution and save hundreds of lives.
http://cagle.slate.msn.com/news/abortion/aborgifs2/Abortion%20definition.gif

[Loknar]

The issue I have with abortions is the fact that people do it for dumb ass reasons. the risk to the mother is also something that should be discussed, and for you commies, the abortion industry is on the fortund 500.



anyway, I have seen 2 graphic videos of abortions on the internet. one was a later term abortion, the other was an ultra sound. both very disturbing. if you will have an abortion, or advocate abortion, or even oppose it, y ou should see w hat you advocate or oppose. To not do so is to remain ignorant.

[Osman Ghazi]

The risk to the mother is very small and is certainly less than a C-section.

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by comrade [email protected] 6 2004, 11:57 AM
I dont see how, viewing a the "grossness" of an abortion should be used to change someones mind.
That would be like showing someone getting a tumour cut and it being gross whihc forces someone not to get it.
It shouldnt be about ohhhh thats grows i aint getting that done, i find that very imature if people change there minds based on that, it should be on the belief ever life gets a chance or its not a life or it doesnt mater if it dies then etc blah blah
Its not about it being gross. It is about the foetus looking like a baby, so it supports the pro-life argument that you are taking away a life. Actually having as a baby looks gross too.

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by Chairman Mao+Apr 7 2004, 10:53 AM--> (Chairman Mao @ Apr 7 2004, 10:53 AM)
comrade [email protected] 6 2004, 11:57 AM
I dont see how, viewing a the "grossness" of an abortion should be used to change someones mind.
That would be like showing someone getting a tumour cut and it being gross whihc forces someone not to get it.
It shouldnt be about ohhhh thats grows i aint getting that done, i find that very imature if people change there minds based on that, it should be on the belief ever life gets a chance or its not a life or it doesnt mater if it dies then etc blah blah
Its not about it being gross. It is about the foetus looking like a baby, so it supports the pro-life argument that you are taking away a life. Actually having as a baby looks gross too. [/b]
What do you want it to look like? An angel? Yes its going to resembel a baby because it is a baby.

And really when people watch this are they expecting the baby to fly out, and wave goodbye and shit? No, theres going to be blood and gore (as with any other surgery). But its better to end the life of a baby then it is to begin it in a ghetto somewhere (BTW Im for womens rights, and im all for abortion)

[Invader Zim]

A Fetus at 10-12 weeks looks nothing like a baby, and is not a baby, a baby has to be born for a start for it to actually be a baby. And the fact it barley even resembles the finished product: -

http://216.158.44.119/brochures/art/10-12wks.jpg

http://www.maile.us/photos1/Maile_new_born_baby.jpg

Not remotly similar.

[Saint-Just]

I watched this program. A Foetus at 4 weeks looks like a baby. And watching a vacuum pump abortion one of the most horrific things I have seen.

The program was made by a woman who is pro-choice who has already had an abortion.

I think that a woman who wants to have an abortion should have one and that the circumstances that surround an abortion are such that they warrant an abortion. But I also think that having an abortion is something not to be done lightly. Its difficult to take an objective view on what an abortion is when you see the baby being aborted and ripped up. But, even if it is akin to murder, I think abortion should be an option.

[dopediana]

does anyone remember the case of the woman a short while ago who was condemned for not wanting a c-section therefore losing her twins? remember how the media painted her as a monster and claimed she said she didn't want to lose her sex appeal? it was none of that. she apparently never said that. she had twins before when she was 14 and had a c-section with that birth, was economically and socially lower-class, a drug user, and had been purposely put in utah by social services to have the kids because utah has such lax adoption laws. i read this in an article in "the nation" this morning...
what do you think of that now that these issues have come to light?

[dopediana]

what the woman had said was a c-section was like being "gutted" from the ribcage to the pelvic bone. she was intensely scared of it. it's unfair to prey on people like that.

[Saint-Just]

Is your point that it is unfair to prey on a woman having an abortion when an abortion is such an unpleasant operation?

What I saw on TV was something that no one would want to happen, it was the fastest type of abortion apparently.

[dopediana]

they wanted to give her a c-section to ensure that the babies would be born alive but she was scared to have another one. they would have been put up for adoption in any case. she decided to try a natural birth and it failed. the point is that they seriously distorted her case because she refused a c-section and the babies died therefore wanting to convict her of murder.

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2004, 04:32 PM
they wanted to give her a c-section to ensure that the babies would be born alive but she was scared to have another one. they would have been put up for adoption in any case. she decided to try a natural birth and it failed. the point is that they seriously distorted her case because she refused a c-section and the babies died therefore wanting to convict her of murder.
Yes, I see. I mean that like a c-section, abortion is an unpleasant operation, and you cannot condemn someone for having an abortion when it is not something someone would do unless the circumstances really demanded it as it is so repulsive an experience. Although, the case was quite different in this c-section.

[Raisa]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2004, 05:57 AM

they could turn t he TV off.....
they could...but you know their gonna be like "eewww" and keep watching and probably be more likely to be against abortion because of what it looks like.
but like one of you said, you should see what you advocate

[RedAnarchist]

I am pro-choice an watched the documentary. I, like most people, was disturbed to see the foetus like that. Even so, abortion is the mother's choice and her choise only.

[Guest1]

No, you don't have to see what you advocate. In fact, you shouldn't. That has nothing to do with rational decision-making, it's purely sentimental.

I don't care if it looked like a truck-load of cute little kittens being ass-raped by horses then shredded to pieces in a wood-chipper.

Her choice, not mine.

[dopediana]

no, it's still a difficult emotional decision, not just purely rational......

[Loknar]

Originally posted by Che y [email protected] 23 2004, 08:35 AM
No, you don't have to see what you advocate. In fact, you shouldn't. That has nothing to do with rational decision-making, it's purely sentimental.


what's wrong? scared? chicken shit.

[IPkurd]

it is up 2 the mother but also the father. and also im not anti or pro abortion, i just dont like when women do it because they are stupid and had unprotected sex, i only support it in rape cases or when they just can't take care of anymore kids. then again poor people cant look after them sooo well im undecided on this

[canikickit]

i just dont like when women do it because they are stupid and had unprotected sex

Why not? What do you suggest they do, have a child anyway?
Why suffer for your mistakes when there is a way of helping yourself out?


what's wrong? scared? chicken shit.

That is not what he is saying.
Poor guy, you can't understand things at all, can you?

[IPkurd]

making and irresponsible mistake like that shouldt jsut be solved with a quick suck of a machine or what ever. im not saying they should keep taking care of the baby, or even have it, but i hate when girl just have abortions "coz it was a one night thing" crap.
as long as the abortion take place early, and not used as contresiption(sp?) i dont have much of a problem

[canikickit]

making and irresponsible mistake like that shouldt jsut be solved with a quick suck of a machine or what ever.

Why not though?
It's got nothing to do with you, all your doing is forcing your moral superiority onto other people.

[El Che]

No one is in favor of abortion. What we should all be is against the persecution of women that make that choice

[IPkurd]

you are right to say its got nothing to do with me, but the baby or fetus there killing should alot of the time have the chance at life. Also just because it's the mothers child doesnt mean she owns the thing like a TV set, the father should be involved as well

[Saint-Just]

I think societies should work towards significantly reducing the incidence of abortion. It is true that a baby killed by an abortion should have the chance at life. However, it is cruel towards the mother to have a baby she does not want and cruel for the child too.

I didn't know women had abortions for"it was a one night thing".

[Loknar]

Originally posted by Chairman [email protected] 24 2004, 01:19 PM
I think societies should work towards significantly reducing the incidence of abortion. It is true that a baby killed by an abortion should have the chance at life. However, it is cruel towards the mother to have a baby she does not want and cruel for the child too.

I didn't know women had abortions for"it was a one night thing".
But life is loaded with emotional stress. I also know 2 people who are adopted, they are well adjusted and do well in s chool. i dont t hink abortion is the natural answer, i think adoption is something that should at the very least be considered.

[IPkurd]

I didn't know women had abortions for"it was a one night thing".


i was refering to the women who have one night stands and get pregnant by it.

[che's long lost daughter]

I think every woman should be responsible for whatever she does. Having an abortion just because she doesn't want the life inside her which was brought about by unresponsible sex is unjustifiable. I am not really totally against abortion, just like what many of you here say, abortion should not be done for the purposes of contraception. I think abortion is only justfiable when pregnancy poses a threat both to the mother and the baby or also, when the baby has been diagnosed to have congenital defects which would make him unable to survive even if he was born alive.

[Saint-Just]

But life is loaded with emotional stress. I also know 2 people who are adopted, they are well adjusted and do well in s chool. i dont t hink abortion is the natural answer, i think adoption is something that should at the very least be considered.

Thats a good point. I think if you consider abortion immoral you may also consider children being brought up by non-biological parents is somewhat immoral too. Life is loaded with emotional stress, but a woman having a baby that may have no father or is unwanted at first seems very cruel and something that might be worth preventing because it is so severe.


i was refering to the women who have one night stands and get pregnant by it.

Yes, thats what I thought. But yes, you are right that it does happen when I look up about it. And I thoroughly agree that this should not happen.

[IPkurd]

Chairman mao, i just looked at your profile and saw your picture (might not be you) and you seem to be white :) i always thougt you was chinese...by the way where do you live in the UK

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2004, 02:57 PM
Chairman mao, i just looked at your profile and saw your picture (might not be you) and you seem to be white :) i always thougt you was chinese...by the way where do you live in the UK
Yes, that is a picture of me. I live in Winchester. In September I will be living in London around Westminster though. Where do you live in the UK.

By the way, the misconception about me being Chinese is because of:
my avatar, my appreciation of Asian women, the way I construct my posts (apparently) and my interest in socialism in Asia.

[IPkurd]

I live in north London, i guess your going uni this year, hopefully i will be too.

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 05:50 PM
I live in north London, i guess your going uni this year, hopefully i will be too.
Yes, I am going to Westminster. Which university are you hoping to go to?

[IPkurd]

Kingston or greenwich uni, dont really care which one i go to as long as i get in and do the course i wanna do

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 08:30 PM
Kingston or greenwich uni, dont really care which one i go to as long as i get in and do the course i wanna do
I put Kingston down among the six I chose. But in the end I chose Westminster. I am doing Modern History.