Surrealism/Magic Realism

[Ziggy]

Does anybody agree or disagree with this statement:
"Magic Realism, like Surrealism, is a postmodern genre founded in literature and leading to the visual, and that it serves as a language to convey feelings of repression and oppression in a manner which is obvious yet sublime."

Basically do you think, like surrealism in artwork, Magic Realism in literature arose from political, economic, and social ills? If not, what then?

[Danton]

Hard to argue, but don't most original art forms arise from such circumstances?.. "Magical realism" I've read a few things like Marquez, Coehlo and Allende..

I don't think it's anything new, IMO it's quasi religious fantasy stories re-packaged with a new age name, but then again I was never especially fond of surrealist art either..
Both forms are essentialy escapism.. IMO..

[Edelweiss]

I really like surrealistic art, especially Dali.
Here's a nice one:


http://www.virtualdali.com/Assets/Paintings/PartialHallucination.jpg
Partial Hallucination. Six Apparitions of Lenin on a Piano, 1931

[MiniOswald]

yer I like surreal art, like where a mans hand can suddenly turn out to be the throat of another man! or generally having no perspective, its great

[Ian]

Wasn't there a member called Ziggy two years or so ago, s/he had an Elmo avatar... whatever...

[Xvall]

Surrealism is infinite.

http://www.erowid.org/culture/art/artists_v/images/archive/venosa_robert_astralcircus.jpg

[Ziggy]

Drake that pic is awesome. Danton, you're right that much of art arose from those situations, but WWI and fall of the certain and the rise of the uncertain directly influenced surrealism and related movements. Dada was a direct attack on the art world and the perceptions of those in it. Though I will agree impressionism came from people wanting to express themselves and breakaway from standards, that need to break away did not come from mass sufferings of the people. As far as magic realism is concerned, I do think it is rather hard to define, but I do not think it is "quasi religious fantasy stories re-packaged with a new age name". Naguib Mahfouz is also a good author to check out for magic realism, especially some of his short stories such "Half a Day".

[TC]

Surrealism isn't a postmodern genre though.

[peaccenicked]

It is pre post modern.

A SURREALIST MANIFESTO
The Surrealist Manifesto was written in 1924 by Andre Breton and then signed by such artists as Louis Aragon, Antonin Artaud, Jacques Baron, Joe Bousquet, J.-A. Boiffard, Jean Carrive, Rene Crevel, Robert Desnos, Paul Elaurd, Max Ernst, and Breton himself. Released to the public on January 27th 1925.

With regard to a false interpretation of our enterprise, stupidly circulated among the public, we declare as follows to the entire braying literary, dramatic, philosophical, exegetical and even theological body of contemporary criticism:
1. We have nothing to do with literature; but we are quite capable, when necessary, of making use of it like anyone else,
2. Surrealism is not a new means or expression, or an easier one, nor even a metaphysic of poetry. It is a means of total liberation of the mind and of all that resembles it.
3. We are determined to make a Revolution.
4. We have joined the word surrealism to the word revolution solely to show the disinterested, detached, and even entirely desperate character of this revolution.
5. We make no claim to change the mores of mankind, but we intend to show the fragility of thought, and on what shifting foundations, what caverns we have built our trembling houses.
6. We hurl this formal warning to Society; Beware of your deviations and faux-pas, we shall not miss a single one.
7. At each turn of its thought, Society will find us waiting.
8. We are specialists in Revolt. There is no means of action which we are not capable, when necessary, of employing.
9. We say in particular to the Western world: surrealism exists. And what is this new ism that is fastened to us? Surrealism is not a poetic form. It is a cry of the mind turning back on itself, and it is determined to break apart its fetters, even if it must be by material hammers!

Bureaus de Recherches Surrealistes,

[Ziggy]

pre post modern would be modern era. The modern era ended around 1750 with the Industrial Revolution. The postmodern era is from around 1750 to around 1914. Though, the manifesto was written 1924, surrealism had formed before its writting. Surrealism did not just appear over night. It built up over years.

[peaccenicked]

Look I get all my information from the web it must be right.
http://www.colorado.edu/English/ENGL2012Klages/pomo.html

And in all truthfulness I think the time scale is mostly irrelevant.
There used to be more focus on the dialogue between the ancients and the moderns. Surrealism seems to be still arguing with the ancients.
It is my impression that post moderism tries to break from that dialogue completely and gives us such things as pastiche.

[peaccenicked]

''Postmodernism, in contrast, doesn't lament the idea of fragmentation, provisionality, or incoherence, but rather celebrates that. The world is meaningless? Let's not pretend that art can make meaning then, let's just play with nonsense.''

yes this summs it up for me, it is crap....hmm. I mean bad art.

[Ziggy]

well, getting all info from the web hardly justifies qualifying it as right, but that is besides the point. Yes, time lines are in some cases irrelevent, but in this case time lines show significant changes in society and the changes over time. Post Modernism does not try to sever ties at all, it merely tries to show change between one era and the next, it was a time of transition.

The fact that you use the term "bad art" shows you have no understanding of art at all. Art in its truest form is neither good or bad. what you call "bad art" is just simply art you do not like and that is no justification to call it bad. for example, book burners thought what they were burning was bad and evil and was it? not at all, some of the world's most beautiful works of literature were called evil and a few closed minded people went on a rampage.

[Fidelbrand]

comrades..
old man or the kissing couple?

[Ziggy]

It's weird, at first I saw just the old man but now I see both at the same time when I look at it. :lol:

[Xvall]

Old man. Otherwise those leaves are as big as those people.

[RedAnarchist]

Theres many examples of that kind of picture, such as the vase one. They are quite clever, and are designed quite well.

[Fidelbrand]

:)

[peaccenicked]

Ziggy.
Bad art is not necesarily evil. Painting celebrating suffering might be considered evil. If that was the artists intention, but art tends not to be that extreme.
Bad art is largely defined by those in the industry as "not being true to life". The qualifier being if the art form was intended to be true to life.
The destruction of bad art is fascist. It is not necessary. I find postmodernism
to be uninspiring subjectively.
Every philosopy that I have came across that describes itself as post modern
has been of extremely poor quality and objectively reactionary and on the whole
a shallow counter spin to surrealism's revolutionary impulse.

[Ziggy]

1)did i ever say bad art was evil? i said there was no such thing as bad art.

2)Surrealism was that extreme.

3)well, we were talking about surrealism in relation to magic realism not philosophy. if you want to talk about post modern philosophy, start a thread in the philosophy forum.

4) you contradict yourself when saying art "is not extreme" but then speak of "surrealism's revolutionary impulse"

[Individual]

Brilliant:

[Individual]

The Ship:

[Individual]

Father's bird's eye view:

[Individual]

Tentation:

[EneME]

My 2 cents....my favorite artist who's a surrealist...Magritte
EDIT: "The Blank Check"

[EneME]

"The False Mirror"

[EneME]

one more..."Empire Of Lights"

[Ziggy]

simply brilliant pics EneME and AlwaysQuestion! Here are some pics of one of my favourite artists, Frida Kahlo.

The Love Embrace of the Universe, the Earth (Mexico), Me, and Senor Xolotl
http://69.93.167.2/artchive/k/kahlo/kahlo_love_embrace.jpg

What the Water Gave Me
http://69.93.167.2/artchive/k/kahlo/kahlo_water.jpg

Roots (Raices)
http://69.93.167.2/artchive/k/kahlo/roots.jpg

[peaccenicked]

Ziggy, hmmm.....forget it.
I like the Frida Kahlo paintings