The American contractors fallujah weren't civilian

[TC]

the BBC writes:



US firm Blackwater Security Consulting confirmed the four were its personnel, but said in a statement the "exact identities of the victims are not known".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3587931.stm


http://www.blackwaterusa.com/images/newbanner1a.jpg

http://www.blackwaterusa.com/images/bigbugeyes.gif


"Blackwater USA is comprised of five companies; Blackwater Training Center, Blackwater Target Systems, Blackwater Security Consulting, Blackwater Canine, and Blackwater Air (AWS). We have established a global presence and provide training and tactical solutions for the 21st century."

Our clients include federal law enforcement agencies, the Department of Defense, Department of State, and Department of Transportation, local and state entities from around the country, multi-national corporations, and friendly nations from all over the globe.

We customize and execute solutions for our clients to help keep them at the level of readiness required to meet today's law enforcement, homeland security, and defense challenges.
Any and all defense services supplied to foreign nationals will only be pursuant to proper authorization by the Department of State.

Come to Blackwater, where the professionals train."


Gary Jackson
President

http://www.blackwaterusa.com/



Does this look like a "civilian" organization to you or does it sound like a paramilitary mercenary organization?

These where the four "civilian" americans killed in fallujah and carried through the streets. Passing them off as civilians is just propaganda, they where soldiers.


The American government is trying to pass this incident off as Iraqi brutality by constantly calling them 'civilians' when the Americans involved where clearly legitimate targets.

[praxis1966]

It doesn't suprise me really. It's just another way for the Republicans to waive the bloody shirt so to speak, with the in pocket press parakeeting the party line at every turn. These shenanigans have been going on for over 50 years, ever since the so-called Siege of Berlin and the birth of what historians like Gore Vidal have rightly dubbed "The National Security Age."

Get used to it bro. It ain't gonna change any time soon.

[Invader Zim]

Err that doesnt stop them being civillians. Miliatry officials such as soldiers are under pay from the state, not from "Security Consulting Firms". Every day security guards are from "Security Consulting Firms", but if they get shot by a robber that doesnt make them soldiers and entitled to state military benefits etc.

just because they have recieved some training from a security firm does not make them professional soldiers.

I hate it when people fail to read their own articals.

[flayer2]

Yeah well they say civilians so they can call it an act of terrorism as the white house official said.

[Sabocat]

I wouldn't call them civilians. I think the word mercenaries fits better.

Calling them civilians was absolutely meant to enrage amerikans into thinking that the Iraqis are nothing but mindless animals. They'll use this to further dehumanize the population.



"The graphic images of the unprovoked attack and subsequent heinous mistreatment of our friends exhibits the extraordinary conditions under which we voluntarily work to bring freedom and democracy :lol: to the Iraqi people.

*emphasis mine

Apparently the mistreatment of Iraqi civilians, wrongful imprisonment of Iraqi civilians in the U&#036; gulags, shooting civilians and reporters are okay though. Please. <_<

[Osman Ghazi]

I love how they referred to the security men as &#39;consultants&#39; it makes them sound like computer nerds or something. While these men were technically civilians, their company is being paid by the U&#036; to do security work so they must obviously have some sort of militray connection or coordination.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by Osman [email protected] 1 2004, 08:28 PM
I love how they referred to the security men as &#39;consultants&#39; it makes them sound like computer nerds or something. While these men were technically civilians, their company is being paid by the U&#036; to do security work so they must obviously have some sort of militray connection or coordination.
They obviously have a militry connection, yet that still doesnt make them military. Its like public companies get hired to produce most of the weaponary used today, the workers in the factories obviously have a connection to the military, but they are not in the military

[TC]

They&#39;re not in the proper military, but rather a paramilitary organization as I pointed out.


These are combatants. If they where fighting the United States they would be called "illigal enemy combatants" or "terrorists" because they&#39;re not proper soldiers but they carry out acts of organized violence.

[Osman Ghazi]

They aren&#39;t in the military but they are trained fighters/soldiers who work directly under the command of the U&#036; Military just like U&#036; soldiers do. They are the same thing. They as much the cronies and goons of the oil barons as a GI is.

[Rasta Sapian]

I thought that the 4 men were US contractors, there to help organize future developments for Iraq? We do know they were americans, and any american let alone english speaking white person would be putting their selves in immidiate danger by travelling through Iraq&#33;

Whether the men were greedy businessmen, or part of an elite security team, they were brutally killed, the arabs from Fallujah were chanting in the streets " Fallujah is the graveyard for Americans " in arabic, man they really do hate americans&#33;

[PenguTheMightyPenguin]

After what they&#39;v been throught they should.

[SittingBull47]

damn. this is pretty sick. It&#39;s like the quinessential government military unit. They speak of it like their running a big corporation (which they are) and their profession is institutionalized killing. Somebody said they sound more like mercenaries than a paramilitary force, and I agree. You can buy mercenaries to carry out any means, but these guys look like they&#39;d only sell themselves to the big Government.

[Intifada]

the following is from www.democracynow.org

Blackwater is one of a growing number of for-profit companies hired by the U.S. military to do work traditionally performed by soldiers.

It was founded by 1997 by an ex-Navy Seal.

In August of last year, Blackwater was awarded a &#036;21 million no-bid contract to supply security guards and two helicopters for Paul Bremer, the head of the U.S. occupation in Iraq.


AMY GOODMAN: We&#39;re joined now by investigative reporter, Barry Yeoman. Last year he wrote a major article for "Mother Jones" on these private security firms titled, "Soldier of Good Fortune." He joins us on the phone. In these brief few minutes we have, Barry, can you talk about Blackwater and the men now in Fallujah, from Blackwater, U.S.A.

BARRY YEOMAN: Sure. Blackwater is a small player in a very big field. We have seen ten-fold growth in private military firms since 1991 when we were in the first Gulf War, we typically hear about Halliburton and Dynacorp. They really are big players. However, Blackwater is a small company that has very big dreams. It was founded by a group of Navy Seals. It&#39;s headed by a former Navy Seal, who told me his goal was to build the largest private army in the world. He has talked about expanding to serve militaries in France and other places, and right now has contracts that he says are so secret that he is not able to tell one branch of the Feds that he&#39;s working for a different branch of the Feds. They provide all sorts of military services. As you know, with no-bid contracts sometimes. They stop short of combat, but it&#39;s often hard to see the line between what&#39;s combat and what&#39;s not combat.

JUAN GONZALEZ: Also, you write that quite a few of the people who work for Blackwater are Chileans, who were from the time of Pinochet in Chile?

BARRY YEOMAN: Not my article, no.

JUAN GONZALEZ: Wasn&#39;t in your article. Sorry…

AMY GOODMAN: Although there are some references to it, now, that Blackwater, U.S.A. has employed some Chilean -- some Ex-Pinochet forces.

BARRY YEOMAN: I suspect there is a lot about Blackwater that we don&#39;t know yet. What really struck me is that even though Blackwater was the only private military firm which opened its doors to me, much of the interview I had with them was couched in this -- this almost cowboy-like secrecy. They were very proud of being on these top secret missions. So, I suspect that as the news starts to spread about this horrible event, we will start to learn more and more about Blackwater.

AMY GOODMAN: I want to thank you for being with us. Barry Yeoman, wrote a piece for "Mother Jones" on Blackwater U.S.A and other private firms.

[MarxIsGod]

Who cares whether or not they were civilians??? The fact is that Americans are still dying in Iraq. I completely opposed the war effort but some of the "common" people (military and civilian) can&#39;t help the fact that they have families to support and so I still support the troops (even if I don&#39;t support the orders they receive from their subordinates). I am so pissed that we went into Iraq in the first place and the fact that we&#39;re still there is all the more infuriating. I think Bush should be charged with murder for his depraved indifference for the safety of American citizens working in Iraq.

I also just want to say that I find it sickening that people like Pengu actually try to justify what was done to the "contractors". I strongly believe that the occupation of Iraq needs to end immediately, but this doesn&#39;t mean that I want Americans to die. You don&#39;t know whether these men were there beause they believed in what they were doing or because they were just doing their jobs because they had a wife and kids at home who need to eat. While the Iraqi&#39;s are more than justified in their infuriation with the occupation, those contractors didn&#39;t deserve what they got and it is sick to think that someone could justify that kind of treatment.

[praxis1966]

Here is the whole problem with your theory. Nobody held a gun to the heads of the soldiers or the Blackwater employees and forced them to do the work they are involved in. They chose that occupation with eyes wide open and with the full knowledge of what that decision could mean. So it&#39;s their own damned fault for putting themselves in harm&#39;s way in the first place.

[PenguTheMightyPenguin]

I also just want to say that I find it sickening that people like Pengu actually try to justify what was done to the "contractors".

I am not trying to justify what was done to them, i am saying the iraqi people had a right to do what they did. They are angry at the occupation and years of American Support of Saddam. That day the anger just boiled over.

[Salvador Allende]

The whole innocent civilian thing is just American propoganda meant to enrage the average American. The US government has already delayed elections that could oust their puppet dictator in Afghanistan and have placed a dictator in Haiti. It seems in Iraq however, the US is beginning to lose ground and that is most likely why the elections are actually to be held soon (in June). No doubt if Bush is re-elected he will try more tactics like this until someone like the Democratic People&#39;s Republic of Korea stops him.

[TC]

fact is that Americans are still dying in Iraq. I completely opposed the war effort but some of the "common" people (military and civilian) can&#39;t help the fact that they have families to support and so I still support the troops (even if I don&#39;t support the orders they receive from their subordinates)

I can understand your position but really Blackwater paramilitaries are even "morally speaking" worse than American enlisted soldiers. These where people who got out of the US army but then decided to go back into warzones as private citizens, not soldiers, to kill people for a ton of money (most of these mercenaries earn 100k per year). These are people who enjoy killing.

These aren&#39;t poor Americans who joined the army to get money for college, the reservists who thought they where going to play soldier for one weekend a month, or even the career soldiers who where forced against their will to stay in Iraq longer than their contract explained because the Department of Defense put out a "no loss" order. These aren&#39;t 18-25 year olds who felt suddenly patriotic after sept 11th but just want to go home now. These paramilitaries are volenteer killers for cash, the equal of mob hit men or Latin American death squads, people who murder for a living as private citizens with no obligation to do so.

[TC]

fact is that Americans are still dying in Iraq. I completely opposed the war effort but some of the "common" people (military and civilian) can&#39;t help the fact that they have families to support and so I still support the troops (even if I don&#39;t support the orders they receive from their subordinates)

I can understand your position but really Blackwater paramilitaries are even "morally speaking" worse than American enlisted soldiers. These where people who got out of the US army but then decided to go back into warzones as private citizens, not soldiers, to kill people for a ton of money (most of these mercenaries earn 100k per year). These are people who enjoy killing.

These aren&#39;t poor Americans who joined the army to get money for college, the reservists who thought they where going to play soldier for one weekend a month, or even the career soldiers who where forced against their will to stay in Iraq longer than their contract explained because the Department of Defense put out a "no loss" order. These aren&#39;t 18-25 year olds who felt suddenly patriotic after sept 11th but just want to go home now. These paramilitaries are volenteer killers for cash, the equal of mob hit men or Latin American death squads, people who murder for a living as private citizens with no obligation to do so.

[TC]

fact is that Americans are still dying in Iraq. I completely opposed the war effort but some of the "common" people (military and civilian) can&#39;t help the fact that they have families to support and so I still support the troops (even if I don&#39;t support the orders they receive from their subordinates)

I can understand your position but really Blackwater paramilitaries are even "morally speaking" worse than American enlisted soldiers. These where people who got out of the US army but then decided to go back into warzones as private citizens, not soldiers, to kill people for a ton of money (most of these mercenaries earn 100k per year). These are people who enjoy killing.

These aren&#39;t poor Americans who joined the army to get money for college, the reservists who thought they where going to play soldier for one weekend a month, or even the career soldiers who where forced against their will to stay in Iraq longer than their contract explained because the Department of Defense put out a "no loss" order. These aren&#39;t 18-25 year olds who felt suddenly patriotic after sept 11th but just want to go home now. These paramilitaries are volenteer killers for cash, the equal of mob hit men or Latin American death squads, people who murder for a living as private citizens with no obligation to do so.

[TC]

fact is that Americans are still dying in Iraq. I completely opposed the war effort but some of the "common" people (military and civilian) can&#39;t help the fact that they have families to support and so I still support the troops (even if I don&#39;t support the orders they receive from their subordinates)

I can understand your position but really Blackwater paramilitaries are even "morally speaking" worse than American enlisted soldiers. These where people who got out of the US army but then decided to go back into warzones as private citizens, not soldiers, to kill people for a ton of money (most of these mercenaries earn 100k per year). These are people who enjoy killing.

These aren&#39;t poor Americans who joined the army to get money for college, the reservists who thought they where going to play soldier for one weekend a month, or even the career soldiers who where forced against their will to stay in Iraq longer than their contract explained because the Department of Defense put out a "no loss" order. These aren&#39;t 18-25 year olds who felt suddenly patriotic after sept 11th but just want to go home now. These paramilitaries are volenteer killers for cash, the equal of mob hit men or Latin American death squads, people who murder for a living as private citizens with no obligation to do so.

[acg4_9]

those -soldiers businessmen security guards call them what you want- are helping the imperialic occupation in iraq so they are targets and the iraqi resistence from the first day announced that anyone who helps the americans in iraq is a target. don&#39;t give me this civilian bullshet did the US think about the civilians when she launched her satanic attack. weren&#39;t those 20000 iraqi that were killed since 20/3 civilians. why didn&#39;t we hear anything about the 1.5 million iraqi that were killed due to the sanctions that were held because of the weapons of mass destruction that turned to be a trajic lie a lie that killed hundred of thousand. put yourself in there shoes try losing your child your brother your sister your parents because the US thinks that medicines can be used as a weapon.
since little bush announced the attack on iraq he destroyed all the borders so it&#39;s a resistence til the end of the occupation
iraq was a grave yard for the british in 1920 and was a grave for the iranian islamic extemists in the eighties and it will be the US grave yard not just in falloja but in all iraq, on the hands of all iraqies, arabs and kurds, muslims and christians, suniis and shiaat.

viva la resistance
viva iraq viva palestine

[El Tipo]

Every day an iraq civilian dies in iraq or few girls get raped or so, then some whatever U&#036; morons get killed and its this big hush, f*ck the media. It seems that iraq is some kind of.. well part of U&#036;. Im getting mad here. :angry: .. Its not a suprise that some of the iraq civilians hate the occupation and this is how they answer: 1) they have no army. 2) there aint really any terrorist groups involved.
Only the iraq civ&#39;s. fighting against U&#036; troops, thats it.
What do ya think should UN go or what?.. I think UN could do something in there and then give the power back to iraq... there is nomore Saddams there..

But ya know what? I think U&#036; will install a dictator and then support him and so on.... History has this odd way to repeat...

[dark fairy]

shit the way shit&#39;s going America itself is not cival... there is a little too much freedom :unsure:

[Rasta Sapian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2004, 04:02 AM

I also just want to say that I find it sickening that people like Pengu actually try to justify what was done to the "contractors".

I am not trying to justify what was done to them, i am saying the iraqi people had a right to do what they did. They are angry at the occupation and years of American Support of Saddam. That day the anger just boiled over.
Its a war&#33; and we all should be aware that there is alot of anger in a war&#33;

[Kurai Tsuki]

They are asking for donations for the, "victims&#39;," families, I guess that means they won&#39;t be giving them any kind of compensation themselves.

[Severian]

A little more about the nice, lovely people being hired as mercenaries in Iraq:
Aparheid killers meet their match in Iraq (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,9400583%5E2703,00.html)

Six South Africans were killed in Iraq during April, most of them mercenaries. As the article says, some of them were veterans of the apartheid regime&#39;s death squads and security forces.