Che In Palestine

[revolutionary spirit]

http://www.arabia.com/news/article/english...0,52221,00.html (http://www.arabia.com/news/article/english/0,1690,52221,00.html)

(Edited by revolutionary spirit at 8:59 pm on Jan. 24, 2002)

[LeftoverAnimal]

I think that if Che gives people hope and something to aspire to it is a good thing but the situation in Palistien/Isreal is very sad. I personaly symapthise more with the Palistineans but i do not like all the violence happening there. Its a mad, mad world. If every body just got on with each other it would be perfect but perfection must have its down points. Actually different beliefs have different idaes of perfection, oh no everything is collapsing is there no hope?

[Kez]

When will so-called brothers of palestine help?
the arab world sold its soul to yankee america

fuck the USA

[Dreadnaht1]

I can't understand how anyone could possibly side with the Israel nation on this. All they want is to conquer land that was supposedly there's. But, guess who supports these people? The good ol U$A of course. They only back them because if they didn't they would piss off all of the Jewish-Americans (20%+ of the population) and the would also lose all of those prescious rescources coming in from them. Ohhh yes money money money. They just love the stuff on Capitalist Hill. So now we are supplying and backing them and are supporting their every move. We even have plans to assasinate or 'dispose' of Yassar Arafat because he is being seen as more of a problem then a solution. These people are brick heads. I would be interested to see if they could think about something else besides money.

-Dread

[Kez]

20% ?
fucking hell
u sure?

comrade kamo

[revolutionary spirit]

yeah america has the biggest jewish population in the world

[Reuben]

EXCUSE ME!

LISTEN. ZIONISM IS A POLITICAL MOVEMENT. IT IS SUPPORTTED ACROSS ETHNIC AND RELIGIOUS BOUNDARIES. MEANWHILE MANY OF THE MOST IMPORTANT ANTI-ZIONISTS HAVE BEEN JEWISH (NAOM CHOMSKY, YEHUDI MENUHIN JOHN ROSE, LEADER OF THE CAMPAIGN FOR PALESTINIAN RIGHTS, MICHEAL ROSEN TO NAME A FEW)

I AM DISTURBED TO FIND PEOPLE (DREDNAHT) NOT ONLY EQUATING JEW WITH ZIONIST, BUT PLUGGING THE TRADITIONAL ANTI-SEMITIC MYTH OF JEWISH MONEY POWER. THIS IS WHAT DREADNAHT WROTE

"They only back them because if they didn't they would piss off all of the Jewish-Americans (20%+ of the population) and the would also lose all of those prescious rescources coming in from them. Ohhh yes money money money. "

"MONEY MONEY MONEY" THIS IS JUST RACISM. OUR ENEMIES WHO BACK UP ISRAEL ARE ZIONISTS REGARDLESS OF ETHNIC BACKGROUND.

FINALLY DREDNAHT, IF YOU ARE GOING TO SPOUT SHIT GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT. THERE ARE AROUND 5-7 MILLION JEWS IN AMERICA. THIS MEANS THEY MAKE UP ABOUT 2.5 PERCENT OF THE POPULATION. FOR HEM TO MAKE UP 20% THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE OVER 50 MILLION.

I AM NOW COMPLETELY UNSURE REGARDING THE POLITICAL PERSUASION OF DREDNAHT.

TO OTHERS,

KEEP FIGHTING RACIASM, ZIONISM AND ANTI-SEMITISM.

YOURS,

REUBEN

[CommieBastard]

I thought he was saying that the US government was concerned only about the 'money money money' that the israeli state was providing for it, such as access to oil, and the purchase of military equipment?

[Reuben]

Yes I think he was saying that that the U.S. is only concerned with mony.However it is unambiguous that he was equating jew with zionist and that he was blaming the whole jewish american ethnic minority, as well as the number of jews in america (which he vastly exaggerated in his post) for the U.S. government supporting israel.

[Dreadnaht1]

Reuben, I understand that this is a very touchy subject because of semitism and other such wonderful hate ideas floating around but I in no means was trying to sound, act or be rascist. If I came off that way then I am terribly sorry. I am so against rascism, stereotypes, etc. that I can't express it in words. But what I was trying to say was from the point of view of the U$ Government. If Jewish people think that the U$ government is not supporting the land of their religion then the governmenet might lose their vote and popular support. There are, however, people like Naom Chomsky who knows the whole truth. I'm just saying that certain Jewish people may see the U$ government as sort of not supporting their faith and since it does have one of the largest Jewish populations it would go out of it's way to support this nation. And I have met some ignorant people who do think that the U$A has to support Israel in order to support them and their faith.

And, yes, the population count was probobly exagurated and I was giving an estimate. But considering I'm living in New York I probobly totally fucked up the estimate. Sorry about that.

-Dread

[Reuben]

Drednaht,
The majority jews in america are secular and not followers of any religion. If you were saying that zionism was strengthened by the prevelance of the Jewish religion and belief, then that has more legitimacy than what came across in your post, which seemed to be blaming jewish americans as a whole ethnic group for American support for Israel.

[Hayduke]

CHe gives hope to everyone that fights against something....

[revolutionary spirit]

most of them are assimilated jews

[Derar]

Not all the jews support israel i agree ...... but there r lots of them specially in the usa , that would give all they have to support israel in its brutal killings on innocent palestinians ...... u have different jewish multi-millionaires in the usa that fund israel with millions every year ..... u've got hewlett packard , marx and spencer , and lots of other well known millionaires ......
just like in the ussr , the jewish minority invaded the soviet union with capitalism .... developed big corporations there , factories , took control of the media and then the whole wealth was in the hands of few ppl while the rest of ppl were starving ( Capitalism ) .....
it also was behind putting yeltsen in power , since they control the money and the media !! and they had the power to remove a temporary president who was a friend of yeltsen ..... they removed him becoz he was a real communist !!

i know that if i accuse all the jews then im racist , and i dont ....... but i guess these ppl give jews a bad name !!

[Reuben]

If you believe all that as truth then you obviusly have no knwledge of the history pf anti-semitic mythoogy and the jewish conspiracy theory.

I know you are not a racist but what your arguments seem too based on are the myths.

The idea of Jews controlling the media and using it to control governmments is Jewish conpiracy stuff and is constantly espoused by the extreme right here in britain and america. For more information on this stuff you may wish to check out david duke. It is also based on lies and indoctrination. I recently had ab argument with a muslim fundamentalist who had been falsely convinced that rupert murdoch was jewish!

Jewish money power is another traditional facet facet of the Jewish conspiracy theory. This has been going on for years across Europe and bears no relation to fact. Oswald Mosely in britain used to espouse iteven though at the time the jews were amongst the poorest and most desperate communities in london. Firthermore 'jewish wealth', if it is possible to define such a thing is vastly exxagerated.

The main point is this. You probably do not even realise that most of what you have just posted comes a book that was forged around 100 years ago called The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. This was a forgery made by tzarist police in an attempt to cause even more hatred against the jews. This is the Jewish Conspiracy Theory, the dangerous ever mandate for genocide has come from.


I really do not understand your point about "The jewish minority invading Russia with capitalism". When communism fell CAPITALISM invaded russia. This was ot specific to any ethnic group. If anything Jews would have been less likely to be involved given the huge involvement by jews in the communist movement before and after the revoluion.

I do not know where you get the illusion from about jewish power in russia. There sis still heavy anti-semitism and discrimination against jews there. Furthermore, Jews are still an ethnic minority in the west.

I urge you and others to investigate the roots of your beliefs about jews controlling the media and the money. These lies have already caused death sentences to be imposed on six million people.


Sorry for rambling. It is just a constant worry that the lies of the jewish conspiracy may be believed by others.

[Derar]

Well , i didnt bring all this from my mind ...... sorry if i some how sounded racist , but im not ......
i saw and read interviews with different jewish millionaires , they said these things with their tongues ...... im a person that doesnt believe just anything ...... but as i said i was pretty sure of that !!
And what i ment about when the jewish millionaires invaded russia , not after it felt and capitalism took place , but i ment that they had a big role in the fall of soviet union , and they brough capitalism in .....
and i dont get the facts from just one source !

[Derar]

And everytime a jewish is convicted of something . wether its true or not ...... the whole world calls it an anti-simitism hate crime ....... just like what happend to the israeli spy jonathan pollard .....

[Moskitto]

The Jewish Conspiricy Theory is a lie. Most of the people claiming a Jewish conspiricy are generally reposting the same junk except changing the words (White (as on WCOTC) instead of Christian (as on Jew-Watch) for example.) And seem to be uncertain as to the origins of their history such as moaning about "Trotsky" killing people in Russia but conveiniently forgetting that the Slavic people in Russia suffered a genocide nearly as bad as that of the Jews.

Traditional neo-nazis think of communism as a Jewish mind control, however the left wing of the nazi party such as Gregor and Otto Strasser were adament that the nazis should overthrow capitalism because they believed that capitalism was a system used by the jews as part of the conspiricy. Similar reasoning is being used today by leaders such as Matt Hale of the WCOTC, who is obsessed with Jewish Billionnaires such as "Bill Gates." Even these groups with apparently non-nazi sounding names (World Church of the Creator sounds like a fundamentalist group doesn't it?) Show great similarities with the Nazi party such as their limited support for the Japanesse people.

Right Wing propaganda is very dangerous, Hitler's rise to power is categorised by his ability to appeal to different sections of the community. The upper-class feared Communism, the middle-class didn't want to loose their savings, the working-class wanted jobs. These combined with fanatical nationalism is a very addictive and dangerous mixture.

If anything, modern neo-nazis will be a lot worse than thier historical counterparts should they rise. Whereas Hitler was only really interested in a European empire despite the urges by Hajj Amin Al-Husseini (a Palestinian Nazi) who wanted Hitler to spread the final solution to North Africa and Palestine. Modern neo-nazis stress the need for a world-wide revolution against everything that isn't white. We cannot allow any of their ideas to spread no matter how much we support Palestine. We must fight them wherever they stand.

PS. I put Trotsky in quotation marks because these people actually believe Trotsky was the leader of the USSR.

[Reuben]

Derar, I am not disputing that Jews amnong others have financed Israel. You may also be aware that the U.S. government (Which has cabinet that does contain a single Jew) heavily finances Israel along with other non-jews. Unless you believe that the government is underr the control of the free masons.

Regarding Russia, It was the capitalist world along with the contradictions in the soviet system that brought about the fall of communism. You however seem intent on being ethnically specific with regard to who you blame. You may also wish to try to equate your experience of the small number of jewish millionnaire capitalists who you saw interviewed wirth the extremely high jewish involvement in bringing down apartheid, and in the movements for communism in russia and other places.

Finally I think it is quite ironic that if I go on to a far right website I read that Jews are responsible for communism and when I'm here I find that, in your own words, "the jewish minority invaded the soviet union with capitalism". Can we win?

[Kez]

Chill comrades, we are all comrades, fighting for the same thing.
None of this should be taken seriously.
Sometimes our passion over rides our brains.

My opinion
But one can see how america is in Israel
a) foothold into arab (oil) world
B) satisfy massive jewish lobby in America

From here on i am saying from beliefs, not neccerilly proof.
Jews, and other immigrants in foreign countries always try to succeed, because they believe that they as in a foreign world have to toil to become successful, and that is what i believe leads to anti-semitism.
I dont believe that anti-semitism is actually racial hatred, but rather jealousy of "a foreigners wealth".
This same theory can be used with the armenians (of which i am of), and this could have lead to the first genocide of the 20th century, turks jealous of armenian success, while ottaman empire deteriorating.

one other point, which thouroughly pisses me off, how the jewish lobby (or ziononist lobby) seems to think that it has the ultimate right to use the word genocide, as though the horrendous holocaust was unique to them. Let us not forget the armenians, or the rwandans(?), the armenian genocide bill was blocked in the usa and in britain by the ziononist forces who pressurised the govt

DEATH TO RACISM!
comrade kamo

[Reuben]

I agree with you regarding the holocaust. What happened to armenians in the earlier part of the century was unambiguously a genocide. There is still alot of hatred in southern Russia against armenians. A couple of months ago some armenians and tajiks died in race riots.

A zionist girl at my school asked me last year, regarding my oppossition to zionism, "doesn't the holocaust mean anything to you?' I replied that it was because of the holocaust an the jewish history of being persecuted that as a jew my solidarity should naturally be with the palestinians.

I disagree however with your assertion that anti-semitism amounts to jealousy of a foreigners wealth. Apart from anything jews have only aquired any sort of wealth in the later part of the 20th century. Before that the great mass of jews were very very poor particularly in russia and poland as a result of hundreds of years of discrimination. Meanwhile aanti-semitism has existed for hundreds of years.


Furthermore, there many different routes to anti-semitism which do not relate to money at all. It eminated to a huge extent from the catholic church which in the thirteen hundreds forced jews across europe to wear yellow stars. It also related to the jewish conspiracy theory which was a mythical theory aimed both at targetting jews and at weakening communism by associating it with jews. Winston Churchill once wrote an article on the jewish conspiracy.

Finally you referred to"the jewish lobby (or ziononist lobby)". please be aware that it is incredibly important to make this distinction for the same reason that it is important to distinguish between arabs and islamic fundalists. There is no legitimacy in equating jew with zionist. You may also be aware that the zionist lobby includes a number of Non jews I.E. bill clinton.,

I was getting angry because this was not a simple case of passion overriding brains. Whether we are all fighting for palestine is immaterial. Ithink you'll find that the British National Party are pro-palestinian. Instead attacks were being made on jews as awhole ethnic group. Bot only this but I was seeing the Jewish conspiracy theory up on the forum.

If you want to see the routes of some stuff that has been postted regarding jewish control of the banks and the media go to the american hate site www.jew-watch.com

And look at what they say about media annd money.
This site is run by firm believers in the conspiracy.

[Kez]

i agree with you that the Roman Cath church were against the jews, but were they playing on the anti-semite feeling already?

Also, were the great merchants of Europe in the 15-19 century not jewish? at the same time there was great poverty?

Im not trying to prove a point, im trying to find the truth about anti-semitism and its causes.

comrade kamo

i think the race i riot you were talking about was conducted by 200 russian skinheads who killed 3 people 2 of whom were azerbaijani, and the other a tajik , if im not mistaken

[Moskitto]

http://www.wcotc.com have basically republished Jew Watch and replaced "Christian" with "White." They also think that all Christians are Jews and hate them because they think Christianity teachers "Love you enemies, hate your friends." And think that's bad because they think that that means you should love other races. They also think that ancient Egyptians where white (Even though I've got some pictures of paintings from Egypt where the Egyptians where, Black.) They also think that every great thing that any black person has done has been because of white genes in their gene pool.

I'm more inclined to take the approach that the JDL have suggested which is to take direct action against them. Unlike the ADL who warn against giving him publicity.

[Dreadnaht1]

Going back to the Soviet Union, I don't believe it was the Jews fault that it came crashing down nor did I feel that it was because of the capitalism surrounding it. The Soviet Union collapsed because of one man--Stalin. Simple as that. He fucked it up and sealed it's fate a long time before it fell. If it wasn't for a few true communists trying to save it in the name of the people (the closest leader to that being Krushchev) it would've gone down alot sooner on.

As for Israel, I don't think it's all that wise for the U$A to be fattening up the nation, both money in the bank and food wise. The people of Israel are eating like U$ citizens and their neighbors are eating dirt five feet away across the border. It's not that the people of Israel don't deserve to live good it's just that their neighbors don't deserve to eat the ground. I have trouble enough eating all this food in U$A and not having a little guilt on my counscious. I'd probobly starve to death if I was a citizen of Israel.

-Dread

And by the way, I'm making a new race. It's goingto be called human. Anyone want to join me?

[Kez]

Brezhnev fucked everything up, bastard pig.
Poor Khrushev :(

Anyhow, Israel is becoming too independant on USA giving its money.
It should invest that money on education and on business, because then the Israelites will realise war isnt good for them, nor business

comrade kamo