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Pedro Alonso Lopez
31st March 2004, 16:56
Hey all, just wondering what everyone thinks of Hume's ethics and morality.

For anybody that needs a quick look at what his view are:



Hume

These summaries and problems deal with Hume's Treatise of Human Nature and Enquiry Concerning the Principles of Morals. These materials are copyrighted © 1998 by Harry J. Gensler but may be distributed freely.



Reason and Desires

Reason is the discovery of truth and falsehood. A desire or action can violate reason only by involving a factual error (as when we want an apple that we falsely believe to be sweet) or by choosing means insufficient to our end.
No desire in itself is either reasonable or unreasonable. 'Tis not contrary to reason to prefer the destruction of the whole world to the scratching of my finger.

Reason's only purpose is to help us to satisfy our desires. Reason is, and ought only to be, the slave of the passions.



Morality Isn't from Reason

Hume gave two arguments to show that morality isn't from reason. The "practicality argument" claims that judgments of reason by themselves have no influence on our feelings and actions. But moral judgments have such influence. So moral judgments aren't judgments of reason.
The second argument rests on Hume's Fork -- the claim that all truths are either relations of ideas or matters of fact. But moral judgments aren't "relations of ideas"; this means that they aren't conceptual truths, like mathematical ones, that are based on definitions and logical connections. Nor are moral judgments "matters of fact"; this means that they aren't empirical truths, like scientific ones, that are based on sense experience. It follows that moral judgments don't express truths -- and hence aren't from reason.



Morality Is from Feeling

Only feeling can distinguish between virtue and vice; reason can't do this. Morality is from feeling, not from reason. Morality is more properly felt than judged.
Virtue is distinguished by the pleasurable feeling that we get from considering the object, and vice by the painful feeling.

Why do we feel positively toward some things, and negatively toward others? Some such feelings are innate, as when we feel negatively about hunger. Others come from social conditioning, as when we feel negatively about stealing.



Nature

Morality isn't based on what is natural.
"Natural" has various senses. For example, what is "natural" may refer what is "typical" -- as opposed to what is "unusual." Or "natural" may be opposed to "artificial" or "miraculous."

In none of these senses is the natural always better than its opposite. The typical isn't always better than the unusual (since selfishness is typical and heroism unusual). Nor is the natural always better than the artificial. Nor is the natural always better than the miraculous.

So we can't equate virtue with the natural, or vice with the unnatural.



Later Refinements

Hume's later writings give a larger role to reason in ethics. We use reason to understand the facts of the case; we can't make an adequate judgment if we are ignorant or misinformed. Once we understand the facts, we see how we feel from an impartial standpoint. So ethics needs both reason and feeling.
Impartiality distinguishes moral feelings from other positive or negative feelings. "X is evil" (unlike "X is my enemy") expresses feelings that abstract from our self-interest and take a general perspective based on love of humanity.

Hume defined "X is virtuous" as "X is a quality of mind that everyone who considers would find agreeable." Perhaps implicit is "... if the person fully understood X and were impartial." If so, then Hume held the ideal observer theory.

which was taken from here:

Hume. (http://www.jcu.edu/philosophy/gensler/ms/hume--00.htm)

Wenty
31st March 2004, 17:10
"Morality is from feeling, not from reason" - I would agree on this point for sure.

I find a lot of Hume's work really intelligent and practical. His ideas about Nature vs Reason are especially I think; Philosophy appeals to reason to make us believe things but nature is too strong and has too much of a hold on us. Perhaps i disagree with him on this point...

Pedro Alonso Lopez
31st March 2004, 18:39
I'm fishing for criticism so go for it.

elijahcraig
1st April 2004, 02:56
I just had a 10-email+ debate with Noam Chomsky on this exact issue. Hume is the man Chomsky draws his theory of linguistics and morality from (though he doesn't agree with much of what Hume says).


Chomsky believes that moral judgement in man is tied up in human nature just as the ability to see through a visual system is tied to human nature and genetic makeup.

I have a similar view, though I have my doubts.

Monty Cantsin
1st April 2004, 08:33
who won? Noam Chomsky or you.

Wenty
1st April 2004, 10:37
i emailed chomsky and he replied within a day! What a legend; i have to say i do envy you getting 10+ emails out of him. He is a busy man.

btw, i actually mentioned human nature in my email and he said, "I'd be skeptical about claims about human nature. Doubtless it is real, and very significant, but very little is understood about it"

Pedro Alonso Lopez
1st April 2004, 13:21
elijahcraig can you tell us more of how that debate went?

elijahcraig
1st April 2004, 21:24
who won? Noam Chomsky or you.

It was more of a discussion than a debate, we weren’t really throwing flames at each other.


btw, i actually mentioned human nature in my email and he said, "I'd be skeptical about claims about human nature. Doubtless it is real, and very significant, but very little is understood about it"


Yes, this is the point.

Human nature is real, it is just a very complex thing which shouldn’t be “assigned” to something based on the economic or cultural views of any particular historical moment. For example: Greed is Human nature—this is a myth based on observation of economic systems which are built around monarchism down to capitalism. Greed is a myth which can be changed.

Chomsky has written that human nature is real, yet it may also be our nature that we are endowed with reason which may not allow us to completely understand it.

Rejection of the concept of human nature in linguistics and philosophy is largely a result of the “labeling” or “assigning” of definites to the concept. This gave the “Left” a way to fight the right’s assertions. “Language and Responsibility” has a part on this, interviewed by another linguist, Chomsky speaks on it.


elijahcraig can you tell us more of how that debate went?

There were numerous subjects, we even got into Hindu philosophy at one point.

I don’t know what else you want to know really. I was basically arguing against hardline Rationalism and he was arguing for it, unless I could offer some reason he should not do so.



You could probably find out his position on it by emailing him about it.