Using violence

[The Rapparee]

I think that violence especially in the world today is the only way to let yourself be heard. In Ireland normal people are driven to so called terroism because they see they have no choice. I feel that we can only acheive a Communist system if we react violently to the Captilast sytem. It must be with mass support and also against the system itself not against the people who are innocent slaves to it. e.g Police,Army Government officials. What do anyone else think? Does the gun or rock have to rplace useless politics which takes to long and normally fails.

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from The Rapparee on 11:41 am on Jan. 22, 2002
I think that violence especially in the world today is the only way to let yourself be heard.You'll also be seen! But you'll be seen as a violent fanatic. And do you really think you'll be heard? What would the producers of the 11:00 news rather show: The Rapparee throwing a rock at someone and then talking about politics, or The Rapparee throwing a rock at someone and then doing the perp walk? Throwing rocks and shooting people won't get your message heard. Look at the Palestinians. They've been throwing rocks and it's all over the news, but how many people who read the newspaper know what it's like to live like them? How many people who watch the news know what the Palestinians are trying to achieve? Hardly any, and Palestinians have been fighting for fifty years. Violence just makes you look like an asshole. It won't get you heard unless you do have mass support, and guess what? There are very, very few places that would throw their support behind a communist revolution, and I would be shocked if there were any countries who would support one. And even with mass support, you'd need to be able to beat very powerful armies. This is impossible. Violence wouldn't work in this day and age.

[CommieBastard]

To be victorious in this media age, a cause must have it's hands clean of enemy blood, and yet be bathed in the blood of it's comrades.

If you are fighting oppression, then fight it peacably, let it do its worst, let it kick you in the face, and then turn to the world, show it your face, and say, this is what i suffer BECAUSE OF YOUR APATHY
and the world will scream and shout until the oppression stops.

Look at vietnam - The Viet Cong guerillas were as nothing as a weapon compared to the self-immolating buddhist monks
Look at India - Ghandi never used violence, and ensured people knew that he hated the idea of it.


Non-Violence works, Violence simply ensures that people are either ignorant of your cause, or closed to it.



As for Ireland, no one there is driven to terrorism. I have not once heard of an attack being carried out in the name of the overthrow of the bourgoisie, or for reforms that will free the workers. I wonder why? well, it's cos sin fein and the IRA, or RIRA, really couldnt give two flying fucks about the people. They are stuck in some demented world in which nations actually matter.

Nations? Nations? who is to say where the borders go? they are ARBITRARY. They are INVENTED. Nationalism simply keeps the workers divided and ensures that socialism is never achieved, while the workers keep their eyes set on their true brother's throats.
fools.
The so-called freedom fighters of ireland are nothing more than gangsters and drug lords.

They should stop fighting their brethren for 'sovereignty', and instead unite with the workers there, and attempt to actually fight for some kind of socialist reform.

In the meanwhile, the majority of the people of northern ireland DONT ACTUALLY want to be part of Ireland. The reason? because the people saying they should join ireland are holding a gun to their heads while saying it.

[revolutionary]

I did support Irelands aims to get an invading country out of their lands, just like Palestine.

But in Ireland 2day its just about revenge, just like the Holy Cross School in Ireland, dicks throwing bricks at children, like commiebastard said the 2 sides only have hatred. They have no understanding of what they should be fighting for.

Communism relies on the support of the people, with out this it becomes a dictatorship. In Cuba the ppl were in favour of communism but were being dictated that is why Fidel succeeded. If as a commie u wish to make a capitalist nation communist u must win the support of the masses, only when they are not under the control of capitalism's propaganda and media which teaches them that communism is violent, can violence be used against military forces.

Che believed in sabotage when it was needed but not terrorism, if the ppl see their own kind being killed because of communism they will reject communism. Terrorism is revenge, attacking the ppl of a nation. The ppl are innocent and are the way they are because of the capitalist system teaching them to be that way.

The difficulty is infiltrating the capitalist system to teach the masses of the truth and they will become communism because communism is based on the truth and is the only system that is fair to all ppl. If the ppl realise that money and possessions do not rule their lives etc. they will fall to socialism.

[Dreadnaht1]

I definetly think that violence is a magor part in revolution and politics and is probobly the only way to overthrow the capitalist machine. But we can never eliminate the politics because then there is no reasoning nor method to our fighting and violence. And while fighting is a magor part in revolution so is protesting and making a scene that will attract people and make them wonder as to why we are fighting.

So while fighting for capitalist destruction is good we can not eliminate other magor factors in a revolution or it will simply become a meaningless battle.

-Dread

[Kez]

i think as time goes by we have more power through peaceful movements. But one cannot rule out violence, what if a world wide revolution is formed from violence?
some may be killed, but we have a quick solution
However thru peaceful methods although sometimes with no success, if it does succeed it has a solid foundation to work on. if u see what i mean

comrade kamo

[Pillar of Maturity]

Quote: from TavareeshKamo on 6:54 pm on Jan. 23, 2002
But one cannot rule out violence, what if a world wide revolution is formed from violence?There will never be a worldwide revolution, at least not during our lifetimes. We need to be realistic and figure out whether violence could be used in a situation that might actually arise.

[Kez]

i didnt mean neccerely in our lifetimes, the revolution i reckon will belong to our grandchildren

comrade kamo

TOWARDS REVOLUTION

[tyronelad]

don't forget the irish trouble began as the civil rights movement- deciated to non-violence. they were met by fierce oppostion, this gradually led to a increase in support for the IRA. Then in the early 80's, after about 10yrs of fighting, the hunger strikes happened. This evelated gerry adams and the likes to national status, and made them see the value of politcs and the down side of violence. what followed was the peace process.

Gerry Adams is committed to peaceul means, because he is in the middle of it- belfast- hes surrounded by loyalists and knows peace is the way forward. its very easy for fellas in south armagh and the republic to whinge about the peace process, but they weren't woke in the middle of the nigh to get a kicking, b taken to a RUC station for another kicking and b lt out, just to have it done all over again

the IRA does commit acts of crime- it did so to finance its war, now smuggling is lining the pockets of the border men. the SF leadership has brought the republicans a long way. NEVER forget that. Decommissiong is under way, the dissents r being jailed, hopefully peace will continue and the people educated and have a higher standard of living. then hatred will b forgetten (but it will take aprox. 100 yrs to reach this).

[pce]

other than what I will deny you said, which i agree with 200%, here's what i think.

the idea that communism is the "truth" or the "right way" is nothing but an opinion. it is a communist's opinion of the way the world should be just as it is a capitalist's opinion that capitalism is the way. therefore, i don't see how we can give ourselves the right to use violence to convert ANYONE to communism. we must present the idea and let people decide for themselves.

some people say that peace doesn't work. however this is wrong because over and over, we have seen that it does as in commiebastard's examples (add to that martin luther king). it is violent revolution that hasn't ever worked. how many of the so-called communist countries, brought about through violence have really succeeded in creating true communism or socialism for that matter?

[CheGuevara]

We have to break their chains before they can decide, and to do that the best and fastest method is revolution.

[Moskitto]

There's only 1 thing i'd use violence against.

And that's Matt Hale.

If he walked past me in the street i'd ram a 6 foot long piece of carbon fibre through his skull. Then I'd go on TV waving his head on the end of the stick. I'd admit it all.

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from Moskitto on 12:44 am on Jan. 24, 2002
There's only 1 thing i'd use violence against.

And that's Matt Hale.

If he walked past me in the street i'd ram a 6 foot long piece of carbon fibre through his skull. Then I'd go on TV waving his head on the end of the stick. I'd admit it all.Absolutely, Moskitto. He is so full of it. He actually said that "white people invented civilization." The Sumerians who he hates so much "invented" civilization, and it's 100% agreed that they were not white and 50% of people think that they were black. You might say that the Egyptians perfected civilization, and the closest white people came to being involved in running Egyptian civilization was being enslaved by the pharoah.

The "master race" never became "civilized" until what, 3-4,000 years after that? And that was only once the Greeks conquered them. Sorry to rant, but I hate Matt Hale and the murder sprees that he inspires.

And in response to CheG, how fast would revolution be in the United States, hmm? The US government has a nuclear arsenal that's probably bigger than the state you live in, tons of troops and billions of dollars. This revolution would not be fast.

[Dreadnaht1]

pce, it's opinion now but results aren't.

-Dread

[Kez]

Quote: from Moskitto on 12:44 am on Jan. 24, 2002
There's only 1 thing i'd use violence against.

And that's Matt Hale.

If he walked past me in the street i'd ram a 6 foot long piece of carbon fibre through his skull. Then I'd go on TV waving his head on the end of the stick. I'd admit it all.


bwhahaha
who the fuck is matt hale?

comrade kamo

[Pillar of Maturity]

Matt Hale is the leader of the World Church of the Creator, a racist organization, and he has inspired at least one anti-Jew/Asian/Black killing spree.