A quote in El Che's sig

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

To be of the Left is to put the individual above the social fictions he creates.

Hey all this is a quote from El Che's sig I think and Im not sure what to think about it.

How do you interpet it?

[El Che]

I wrote that.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Oh that makes it twice as interesting. Whats the idea behind it, what made you say it. To be honest I have trouble interpeting it.

[El Che]

Well take capital for instance, its a social fiction. So is the state or what have you. To me the Left puts the individual first.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Im not sure, everything is a social fiction. For example Nietzsche in the Birth of Tradegy gives good examples of how we create art and myths i.e. religion, music, anything good in society then forget we make them.

I dont think capital or the state has anything to do with fiction as such, just concepts that over time became accepted modes of society.

Are you an anarchist?

Whats wrong with social fictions such as the state or more importantly the social contract which allows people to live safely together albeit with blatant injusitce.

Plus the left is not exactly individualist unless it takes the form of libertarianism (anarchism in my eyes). The only geniue advocat to me with a good case was Wilde, The Spirit of man under socialism.

What about labour in the left, problems like collectivisation, losing private property, they all seem to me geared toward a better society for the common good of a better society but at a loss of the individual's pleasure factor.

[nobody_cares]

I totally agree with Geist

[El Che]

How can something be for the common good if it is against the individual? All the communist regimes to date have been "for the common good" but against the individual and that is why they have failed.

I would consider my self a Libertarian Socialist.

[El Che]

I dont think capital or the state has anything to do with fiction as such, just concepts that over time became accepted modes of society.


Fiction in the sense that they are social constructs.

[El Che]

Capital is a social fiction that is against the individual due to the social relations it creates. Dictatorship is also a social fiction that is against the individual. So is organized religion if it is not kept in check. The true Left fights these things.

[Lefty]

I interpreted it as saying that being a leftist means that you see through all the lies that are perpetrated by capitalism. The reason for the U.S. presence in Iraq is for weapons of mass destruction? A lie that leftists see through. Etc. Etc. Basically, I took it as saying that the Right has been deluding themselves with lies, or "social fictions."

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by El [email protected] 26 2004, 06:42 PM
How can something be for the common good if it is against the individual? All the communist regimes to date have been "for the common good" but against the individual and that is why they have failed.

I would consider my self a Libertarian Socialist.
Tis a good quote, to be sure. Good point too but it can't realy be communist and a regime at the same time. Though many movements did get steered away from protecting individual's rights by certain individuals who were more concerned with a regime and so they failed.

I see the quote as meaning: To put humanitarian issues above false social constructs. Since you are concerned about the people not other propaganda and self-serving agendas.

[El Che]

I see the quote as meaning: To put humanitarian issues above false social constructs. Since you are concerned about the people not other propaganda and self-serving agendas.-313C7 iVi4RX

Exactly.

EDIT: Though I would remove the word "false". Its "to put humanitarian issues about social constructs" period.