Thoughts on Michael Moore

[insurgency03]

This might sound right winged but its a valid question, i mean he writes tons of books, makes lots of miovies, and speaks in favor of stuff thats had so many others silenced. So my question is why he's still in buissness and if he's really all he seems to be?

[BuyOurEverything]

Michael Moore is a classic mainstream liberal. He can spot the occasional problem with society, however, he has no solutions. He is a talented filmaker, however he is much more concerned with style than substance.


speaks in favor of stuff thats had so many others silenced

What exaclty do you mean by this?

[Comrade BNS]

As I have said in previous threads about Michael Moore, he is ignorant, arrogant, racist and extremely jingoistic.

One huge piece of stupidity from the self proclaimed "only credible journalist in the country prepared to say what they don't want to hear" He criticises the narrow and parochial scope of the US media, but in the 2 books of his that I have briefly looked at (attempted to read one, but was much to painful) the entirety, and I mean the absolute entirety of his sources were, yes you guessed it, the American Media!!

Comrade BNS

[Saint-Just]

He is a voice for America's moderate left. But he is still very much bourgois in his weltanschaung. Although Roger and Me was a good film, I dislike Michael Moore but I couldn't find much to criticise in that film.

[SlimJin]

Watch Bowling for Columbine it was pretty amazing but I heard that the Academy was reviewing it because his facts werent completely true anyone hear about this?

[El Che]

Hes a nice guy. A very human person. His message isn't too intellectual but he is funny, accessible; he reaches people and he gets his point accross.

Keep up the good work, Mike!

[truthaddict11]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2004, 07:53 AM
Watch Bowling for Columbine it was pretty amazing but I heard that the Academy was reviewing it because his facts werent completely true anyone hear about this?
yeah, well many of his "facts" were wrong and he does the same thing he blames the mainstream media for doing by editing and slanting his "documentry".

[Kez]

Very petit bourgeoise outlook.

I think for us, its good as a secondary source of information where we can use stats and so on in our arguments.

His solutions, as has already been pointed out, are worthless.

[BOZG]

He's just gone completely mad with his crusade against Bush.

[SlimJin]

lol But if you look through all the forums all the Bush-bashing going on you would think people here would appreicate his efforts

[seen_che]

Better than Spielberg.......
Mik´s work is NOT whortless...........But not 100% right.....
He´s still funny 2 watch

[SittingBull47]

I don't see him as racist, but he's still a moderate liberal. He does some good work, and i would like to think he does what he does for the people.

[Comrade BNS]

No doubt that his heart is in the right place, and that bowling for columbine was well done (a one off for him!) but I cannot abide his ignorant jingoistic views. For instance in his book (of which i was only able to read 3/4 of the first chapter and his bibliography) Dude where's my country, Moore insinuates that Bin Laden's extended family who were living in America at the time of September 11 should have been detained!! And at that stage bin laden was only a suspect anyway. Talk about trial by media! I wrote to Mr Moore with my disgust and asked if his family should be detained for his crimes against common decency and journalistic practices. His reply was a somewhat condescending laugh, and the statement "It's a different situation, Bin Laden is a terrorist, whereas I'm sure you'll agree I'm not."

Comrade BNS

[revoevo]

The only film of his I've ever seen is Bowling for Columbine. My friend and I cried, and she had already seen it. He's a good storyteller, and he really pulls on your heartstrings. After hearing many of the "facts" in BfC were actually not so factual, I was dissapointed in him, but hes not all bad. A little over the top, and his books are rubbish, but I think his hearts in the right place.

[conduit_138]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2004, 04:28 PM
yeah, well many of his "facts" were wrong and he does the same thing he blames the mainstream media for doing by editing and slanting his "documentry".
Alot of the 'facts' people are claiming are wrong are actually right.

Go figure.

[conduit_138]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 24 2004, 10:28 PM
Moore insinuates that Bin Laden's extended family who were living in America at the time of September 11 should have been detained!! And at that stage bin laden was only a suspect anyway.
Well, he was a known terrorist at that time. He was wanted for the bombings of a bunch of American embassies.

You'd think that maybe his family members would be questioned.. being family and all... but no... they were allowed to fly.

[praxis1966]

Look BNS, you have to consider that alot of what Michael Moore says is meant to be sarcastic and only to prove a point. Sometimes it is overt, as in the case of the award of a giant 28 cent check he wanted to give to the CEO of Mars Inc. as a reward for closing factories and shipping the jobs to Mexico (where the minimum wage is 28 cents), and sometimes covert as in your example. You can't take about 65% of what he says seriously, as it is meant to be ironic.

[Akasha]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2004, 12:28 PM
He's just gone completely mad with his crusade against Bush.
Isn't that reason enough to respect him?

[Instinct For Freedom]

I hate how people think that just because someone gets well-known then they're "doing it for the money. He has a message, and it's a good thing that more people are able to hear about it. I think it's made quite clear in what he does that he's not a Capitalist fuck. He just happens to make money for helping people realize the truth. There's a link to buy Che shirts on this site...how is that any different?

[RedCeltic]

In my opinion "roger and me" was a much better film than " Bowling for Columbine" , maybe it's just because I care more about the issue he was raising in the earlier film.

Yet to me, "Roger and Me" seemed more "honest" in a way. He was pushing an agenda in both issues, but with Roger and me he was simply showing what was hapening to workers in Flint Michigan, while in Bowling for Columbine he seemed as if he was trying to say he was "non biased" even though he clearly was biased.

With Roger and me, all Mike needed to do was to walk around with his camra and show what was going on in Flint. Not hard at all really, and he made an amazing, and totally honest doccumentery.

He couldn't really do that with Bowling for Columbine because the point he was trying to make was a bit harder to actually prove and so in my opinion it wasn't as strong of a film and surely not as honest.

I don't know to what extent the money has jaded Michael Moore, he brings up good points in his films and his books in a way that is understandable and relivent to the general public.

I know he didn't get into it for the money, that much is true.

[Christopher]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2004, 11:34 PM
The only film of his I've ever seen is Bowling for Columbine. My friend and I cried, and she had already seen it. He's a good storyteller, and he really pulls on your heartstrings. After hearing many of the "facts" in BfC were actually not so factual, I was dissapointed in him, but hes not all bad. A little over the top, and his books are rubbish, but I think his hearts in the right place.
Few recognize Columbine for what it is. Evidence of the quickening. Ancient spiritual people, some dark, do things with the ones they control. It is easier to get people to do extreme things on the 22nd day of the month, or perhaps the 21st or 23rd. Four of the school shooting occured on the 22nd

In "BFC", the cafeteria footage, right around the middle the date time counter passes 11:22 AM.

Moore is the selected anti-system opponent granted success because his heart is in the right place but he will NEVER really rock the boat. He creates the impression powerful people are doing good things. For example in 2000 tens of thousands of conspiracy web sites appeared that obscure sites with real information while creating an environment of junk information syndrome. Moores info is no better but it gets seen and garbage conspiraciy sites are the first ones found in searches. Self discrediting systems that fill a void are accepted temporarily then overun by the newer.

I happen to have a site about our unconscious mind, collective and otherwise.

http://truthasaur.com

Its about the number 21,22 and 23 and ancient sun worship and the conspiracies thereof.

[Akasha]

Originally posted by Instinct For [email protected] 28 2004, 08:13 PM
There's a link to buy Che shirts on this site...how is that any different?
Exactly. Here on Queen Street in Toronto there's a store that even sells purses with Che's pic on them. I'd like to actually see some stupid girl walking around with one of them and see if she even knows what he stood for. Other than, like a great fashion sense, like hello!! I've never seen a pic of Che wearing Mao merchandise. It's not Michael Moore selling out it's our society. We have a habit of marketing everything. Someone always has to make the buck.

[Christopher]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2004, 06:34 PM
It's not Michael Moore selling out it's our society. We have a habit of marketing everything. Someone always has to make the buck.
Exactly, our values, ethics and morals. The principles of the republic.

If Moore knew what he was really doing he'd be a sellout but I don't think he does know. I think he's secret society, so secret even he doesn't know, and is appointed as a cultural leader.

Basically; NO ONE WHO WILL WORK AGAINST THE AQUISITION OF POWER IS ALLOWED TO HAVE ANY POWER.

That means that EVERYONE we see in media is incapable of working fro the peoples interests.

[Akasha]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2004, 01:48 PM

Basically; NO ONE WHO WILL WORK AGAINST THE AQUISITION OF POWER IS ALLOWED TO HAVE ANY POWER.

That means that EVERYONE we see in media is incapable of working fro the peoples interests.
I think we just need to stop seeing them as sell-outs. There's nothing wrong with someone making money. The point of communism is not to have everyone living as misers with only the shirt on their backs. Leftists need to stop associating making money with being an evil sell-out capitalist. Guess what, living in poverty is not fun and it doesn't make you "real." Let Michael Moore profit. He makes money, he makes more movies and more books, his message gets spread further.

[JokingClown]

"Watch Bowling for Columbine it was pretty amazing but I heard that the Academy was reviewing it because his facts werent completely true anyone hear about this? "

This is very true. Click on the link below to read a very interesting article on "Bowling for Columbine".
The TRUTH About "Bowling For Columbine". (http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html)

[praxis1966]

Originally posted by Akasha+Mar 31 2004, 01:03 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Akasha @ Mar 31 2004, 01:03 PM)
[email protected] 31 2004, 01:48 PM

Basically; NO ONE WHO WILL WORK AGAINST THE AQUISITION OF POWER IS ALLOWED TO HAVE ANY POWER.

That means that EVERYONE we see in media is incapable of working fro the peoples interests.
I think we just need to stop seeing them as sell-outs. There&#39;s nothing wrong with someone making money. The point of communism is not to have everyone living as misers with only the shirt on their backs. Leftists need to stop associating making money with being an evil sell-out capitalist. Guess what, living in poverty is not fun and it doesn&#39;t make you "real." Let Michael Moore profit. He makes money, he makes more movies and more books, his message gets spread further. [/b]
Agreed. Anyone who has read Stupid White Men knows that what employees he does have, a booking secretary and a research assistant, are union employees with the Teamsters. As a matter of fact, he was the one who insisted that they unionize. After calling around, his secretary quickly discovered that the only people willing to organize them were a truckers union, due to the size of their inordinantly small shop. Ironic isn&#39;t it? For once a boss encourages union membership, and it&#39;s the supposed tribunes of the plebians that turn their backs.

[El Tipo]

But what ya all say about all the guns at U&#036;? Aint that a fact that theres a lot of guns in U&#036; right? Enough for a small army.

[Christopher]

Originally posted by Akasha+Mar 31 2004, 07:03 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Akasha @ Mar 31 2004, 07:03 PM)
[email protected] 31 2004, 01:48 PM

Basically; NO ONE WHO WILL WORK AGAINST THE AQUISITION OF POWER IS ALLOWED TO HAVE ANY POWER.

That means that EVERYONE we see in media is incapable of working for the peoples interests.
I think we just need to stop seeing them as sell-outs. There&#39;s nothing wrong with someone making money.........Let Michael Moore profit. He makes money, he makes more movies and more books, his message gets spread further. [/b]
I do not use the term sellout. When only those who will do nothing to make change are able to get the eyes and ears of the masses, we will be unable to change. This is presently the case. Moore&#39;s message is okay, not as good as we need it to be.

I began posting in the Bowling for Columbine forum after it started. Progunners trolled the place to the point where a decent discussion was fractured into garbage. Moores admins on the site would not take a stand and help people who were seriously trying to unify. Now the Moore forums are gone. What does this say?

I saw his movie, I understand his message and it is no where near enough. His bashing alienates perfectly good people who might otherwise be open to understanding the problems realistically. Moore is not helping us. He might want to, but he is not.

[Lefty]

I notice that some people are *****ing because his views aren&#39;t leftist enough for your taste. This is funny. Do you actually think he would have the fervent following he does if he preached socialism and violent revolution? Nah. He&#39;d just be the next socialist party presidential candidate.

Personally, I&#39;m down with him. He seems like a pretty solid guy, with solid ideals. Plus, he&#39;s dead freakin&#39; sexy.

[conduit_138]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2004, 03:58 AM
This is very true. Click on the link below to read a very interesting article on "Bowling for Columbine".
The TRUTH About "Bowling For Columbine". (http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html)
a) I&#39;m wondering. If Moore is full of crap, why has only one person sued him (James Nichols, a complete loon)? If he were such a liar and was going around defaming people, you&#39;d think he&#39;d get sued again and again.

b) the Hardy Law site is filled with inaccuracies itself.

For instance, it claims that the Canadian gun store theme was faked, on the grounds that Canadian law states that one must have a gun license and not just a drivers license/passport. However, Moore&#39;s movie was probably filmed over a period of several years, and had he been in Canada in 2000, he would have been able to buy ammo with just a foreign drivers license. (source) (http://www.guerrillanews.com/forum/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=gnn&Number=154643&Search=true&Forum=gnn&Words=Moore&Match=And&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=154100)

It also claims that Moore skewed the homicide numbers in the USA. Here&#39;s a post from another forum where I looked at this &#39;skewage&#39;

"I was looking at (the hardy law website) attempt to hash out Moores&#39; gun homicide numbers... He accused Moore of not looking at the rates of gun homicides in Canada, Australia, Germany, Japan, and the USA, saying Moore looked at the raw numbers. Then, instead of actually looking at the population to gun homicide ratio, he backs out and starts comparing gun deaths to disease-deaths which is incredibly far from the point. Moore was trying to point out that America had a disproportionate number of gun homicides. But the real gun homicide to population rates seem to support Moores&#39; arguments.

1/3,300,000 people killed with guns annually: Japan

1/301,000 people killed with guns annually: Australia

1/213,000 people killed with guns annually: Germany

1/190,000 people killed with guns annually: Canada

1/26,000 people killed with guns annually: USA (Using Nat&#39;L Centre for Health Statistics figures, that take in &#39;legitimate&#39; homicide according to this site)
1/32,000 people killed with guns annually: USA (Using FBI stats, which the author of the site endorses)


So any way you splice it, it seems that the USA has a higher rate of homicide. Unless my math is wrong?"


The hardy law website also gripes about Moores take on the foreign aid sent to Afghanistan. From the same discussion forum, I posted this:

"I don&#39;t know about the Taliban aid either. I came across these editorials (http://www.robertscheer.com/1_natcolumn/01_columns/taliban.htm), that lean towards the idea that donating money (whether it be in aid or cash) to a totalitarian fundamentalist regime is a bad idea. I don&#39;t see why the UN has anything to do with it; isn&#39;t it &#39;irrelevant&#39; anyways? Does any nation in the UN want to deny humanitarian aide to nations in drought and famine?

And also, doesn&#39;t the fact that they were donating money and offering humanitarian assistance to Afghanistan, and then went around and blew the shit out of them because they were supposedly harbouring the terrorists seem inherently wrong anyways? Moore could have explored that issue more I suppose, but it would have driven it all off topic, and ended up being about 9/11 and the ensuing wars."

Alot of the other comments are about Moore&#39;s use of editing to get a point across and are certainly valid criticism, though they aren&#39;t examples of &#39;lies&#39; nor is editing unprecedented. It would be impossible to find a documentary that doesn&#39;t use editing to get a point across. "Grass", "Crumb", "Dark Side of the Moon" are all great examples of documentaries that use clever editing used as an effective tool for the exchange of ideas.

And the hardy law website totally misses the point of the documentary with this statement, which only leads me to further believe that the agenda of that website sucks.

"10. Guns (supposedly the point of the film)."

No it wasn&#39;t.

[Heesh]

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/

not a big fan of his but give him a fair chance

[Christopher]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2004, 03:52 AM
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/

not a big fan of his but give him a fair chance
If he knows as much as he wants us to believe he knows and he cares as much as he says he does, why isn&#39;t he spending more of his profits to help us to unify? Authority figures of any type can really help herds of sheep to stick together.

[Rasta Sapian]

I think that mike moore is doing more than most awakened citizens of America are doing&#33; Sure he maybe just a left-leaning democrat, but at least he has the motivation and drive to bring light to things wrong with our current capitalist system, and even proposes ideas to change for the better&#33;

Collumbine, is one of the best examples in recent years of what could be further conceived as foreshadowing for nation in a downword spiral&#33;

The fact that it occured on april 20th = 420 is not just a fact it is a sign&#33;

Read between the lines people&#33; I think that is what mike moore is incouraging people to do, and this could only be positive, and funny as hell&#33;


peace yall

[Christopher]

Originally posted by Rasta [email protected] 4 2004, 06:14 PM
think that mike moore is doing more than most awakened citizens of America are doing&#33; Sure he maybe just a left-leaning democrat, but at least he has the motivation and drive to bring light to things wrong with our current capitalist system, and even proposes ideas to change for the better&#33;

Collumbine, is one of the best examples in recent years of what could be further conceived as foreshadowing for nation in a downword spiral&#33;

The fact that it occured on april 20th = 420 is not just a fact it is a sign&#33;

Read between the lines people&#33; I think that is what mike moore is incouraging people to do, and this could only be positive, and funny as hell&#33;

peace yall

I&#39;ll repeat this because there is a great deal of evidence substantiating it.

Basically; NO ONE WHO WILL WORK AGAINST THE AQUISITION OF POWER IS ALLOWED TO HAVE ANY POWER.
That means that EVERYONE we see in media is incapable of working for the peoples interests.

Akasha&#39;s words are quality;
I think we just need to stop seeing them as sell-outs.

True, it does appear he is doing something which may be my point. As long as people think that powerful people are doing things, they&#39;ll do nothing.

Earlier I mentioned that the Columbine footage of the cafeteria showed 11:22 AM. This is a sign and Columbine is just one of thousands. Albeit, Columbine stands out bigtime, but others are certainly visable. Here is an local event (for me) that reeks of those same signs;

http://truthasaur.com/local/secretcity25.html

[Rasta Sapian]

When the media rules mainstream idealism, and propaganda is used to promote economic agenda&#39;s ie. advertising, politics, etc.

The media does not always have to be a negitive thing, moore is a figure that co-exists with the media, and films. Therefore if he desides to promote awareness, to right wing objectives and propoganda in the media, it is his god given right&#33;

and furthermore, the point that the movie was called"bowling for collumbine"
proves that mike moore is an enlightened individual, who is aware of signs and is doing the best he can to raise awareness to this neuveau cultural awarness.

He is not trying to obtain power, he is just trying to educate the masses which in the united states appear to be a little bit uneducated via an underfunded public education, which if you look at it in a 360 degree, could unlock a mystery in the collumbine massecure&#33; :o

peace yall

[truthaddict11]

The fact that it occured on april 20th = 420 is not just a fact it is a sign&#33; April 20th is also Hitler&#39;s birthday, is that also a "clue" in the "mystery" of columbine?

[Christopher]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2004, 07:12 PM

The fact that it occured on april 20th = 420 is not just a fact it is a sign&#33; April 20th is also Hitler&#39;s birthday, is that also a "clue" in the "mystery" of columbine?
Yes, the date is significant because the same spiritual factions that created and supported Hitler programmed the 2 Columbine shooters.

There are many different secret societies and some look very cool and talk that way too. When it comes down to it, they will not make key moves that might really initiate change.

A person has to repeatedly try to contact powerful people and entities to realize this. I&#39;ve spent the last 20 years trying to get liberal celebrities to talk about making a teledemocracy movement to preempt the corporate material exploitation of the U.S. populations. Not one would communicate. Even organizations dedicated to teledemocracy wouldn&#39;t discuss working towards creating a movement.

It is really quite uniform and simualtaneously irrational. All things that people do that appear irrational and defy explanation in those terms are possibly controlled by unconscious factors because the unconscious cannot reason and we also cannot know it directly.

[Rasta Sapian]

It is numerically symbolic, the only corolation that I can come up with is "Facism"
This may be one perception worth hypothasizing&#33; :huh:


p.s. its possible that the suiside killers wanted to send us a message to be inturperated? This is just one idea empathized in the 420 generation transendance which I am currently reserching further. :unsure:

[Comrade BNS]

Originally posted by conduit_138+Mar 28 2004, 07:37 AM--> (conduit_138 @ Mar 28 2004, 07:37 AM)
Comrade [email protected] 24 2004, 10:28 PM
Moore insinuates that Bin Laden&#39;s extended family who were living in America at the time of September 11 should have been detained&#33;&#33; And at that stage bin laden was only a suspect anyway.
Well, he was a known terrorist at that time. He was wanted for the bombings of a bunch of American embassies.

You&#39;d think that maybe his family members would be questioned.. being family and all... but no... they were allowed to fly. [/b]
what the fuck? why don&#39;t I imprison your family illegally for you lack of moral decency&#33;

First fucking principle of Justice, is INNOCENT untill PROVEN guilty...

Second what the fuck does Bin Laden&#39;s family have to do with Osama&#39;s actions....they are his fucking family for god&#39;s sake&#33; The Bin Laden&#39;s are the largest and most respected building firm in Saudi Arabia, and have invested heavily in the US economy...I don&#39;t care whose fuckin family it is, you don&#39;t even fucking consider detaining them unless there is some reasonable proof they were involved&#33;

and it&#39;s a shame that I actually have to point this out, It&#39;s disgusting how so many people want to kiss Mike&#39;s, ignorant, bourgeois ass&#33; He lifts most of his "ideas" from real letist writers and social commentators such as Tariq Ali, Gail Boxwell, Merryl-Wynn Davies and others....if you want real, credible, and well written leftist writings then go to any of the above authors, as opposed to that fuckin cretin Moore.

Comrade BNS

[Akasha]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 9 2004, 05:19 AM
[what the fuck? why don&#39;t I imprison your family illegally for you lack of moral decency&#33;

First fucking principle of Justice, is INNOCENT untill PROVEN guilty...

Second what the fuck does Bin Laden&#39;s family have to do with Osama&#39;s actions....they are his fucking family for god&#39;s sake&#33; The Bin Laden&#39;s are the largest and most respected building firm in Saudi Arabia, and have invested heavily in the US economy...I don&#39;t care whose fuckin family it is, you don&#39;t even fucking consider detaining them unless there is some reasonable proof they were involved&#33;

and it&#39;s a shame that I actually have to point this out, It&#39;s disgusting how so many people want to kiss Mike&#39;s, ignorant, bourgeois ass&#33; He lifts most of his "ideas" from real letist writers and social commentators such as Tariq Ali, Gail Boxwell, Merryl-Wynn Davies and others....if you want real, credible, and well written leftist writings then go to any of the above authors, as opposed to that fuckin cretin Moore.

Comrade BNS
Since when are people in the U&#036; innocent until proven guilty? Why don&#39;t you ask the detainees at Guantonomo if they&#39;ve received treatment as nicely as the Bin Laden family has. I bet they&#39;d say no cause guess what? They don&#39;t have Bush in their pockets. The only reason they were allowed to fly in restricted airspace is because they are best buds with the Bush family and have done business with them for many years. They should have at least been questioned. If I was suspected of killing over 3000 ppl you&#39;d bet your ass my mom and dad would be at some military base being grilled. But then again I don&#39;t own large parts of the U&#036;.

[Comrade BNS]

Originally posted by Akasha+Apr 9 2004, 04:43 PM--> (Akasha @ Apr 9 2004, 04:43 PM)
Comrade [email protected] 9 2004, 05:19 AM
[what the fuck? why don&#39;t I imprison your family illegally for you lack of moral decency&#33;

First fucking principle of Justice, is INNOCENT untill PROVEN guilty...

Second what the fuck does Bin Laden&#39;s family have to do with Osama&#39;s actions....they are his fucking family for god&#39;s sake&#33; The Bin Laden&#39;s are the largest and most respected building firm in Saudi Arabia, and have invested heavily in the US economy...I don&#39;t care whose fuckin family it is, you don&#39;t even fucking consider detaining them unless there is some reasonable proof they were involved&#33;

and it&#39;s a shame that I actually have to point this out, It&#39;s disgusting how so many people want to kiss Mike&#39;s, ignorant, bourgeois ass&#33; He lifts most of his "ideas" from real letist writers and social commentators such as Tariq Ali, Gail Boxwell, Merryl-Wynn Davies and others....if you want real, credible, and well written leftist writings then go to any of the above authors, as opposed to that fuckin cretin Moore.

Comrade BNS
Since when are people in the U&#036; innocent until proven guilty? Why don&#39;t you ask the detainees at Guantonomo if they&#39;ve received treatment as nicely as the Bin Laden family has. I bet they&#39;d say no cause guess what? They don&#39;t have Bush in their pockets. The only reason they were allowed to fly in restricted airspace is because they are best buds with the Bush family and have done business with them for many years. They should have at least been questioned. If I was suspected of killing over 3000 ppl you&#39;d bet your ass my mom and dad would be at some military base being grilled. But then again I don&#39;t own large parts of the U&#036;. [/b]
Just because AMerica has no sense of decency or justice whatsoever, does not mean for one second that it should be accepted and used as a benchmark for determining the norm&#33;

In america I could probably bet that yes your maa&#39; and paa&#39; would probably face a few nights in the slammer if u committed a serious crime...but that is fucked america, don&#39;t you dare accept that and then apply that situation as the norm onto the rest of the world, as is the want with many americans.

Yes you are right the Bin laden&#39;s did have to grease the palms of their potential captors so to speak, but isn&#39;t it a sad situation when you have to turn to corruption to ensure and maintian your civil rights?

Comrade BNS

[Hiero]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 24 2004, 10:28 PM
No doubt that his heart is in the right place, and that bowling for columbine was well done (a one off for him&#33;) but I cannot abide his ignorant jingoistic views. For instance in his book (of which i was only able to read 3/4 of the first chapter and his bibliography) Dude where&#39;s my country, Moore insinuates that Bin Laden&#39;s extended family who were living in America at the time of September 11 should have been detained&#33;&#33; And at that stage bin laden was only a suspect anyway. Talk about trial by media&#33; I wrote to Mr Moore with my disgust and asked if his family should be detained for his crimes against common decency and journalistic practices. His reply was a somewhat condescending laugh, and the statement "It&#39;s a different situation, Bin Laden is a terrorist, whereas I&#39;m sure you&#39;ll agree I&#39;m not."

Comrade BNS
As if you fucking did.

I like moore when he didnt go on to federal and international politics.