Ive been thinking and im really scared

[withoutmercy]

Comments???

[RedAnarchist]

Why are you scared of death?

Youre young, so an healthy diet and regular exercise will help keep death away.

Death is something that is best when accepted. We are all going to die, and even though this is a terrifying fact for some, we have to realize that it will come eventually.

Try not to think about death too much. It would be a tragedy if you wasted life by worrying about something that will only take that life from you anyway.

[withoutmercy]

My Nan died and i started thinking what would happen when you died n its got me really scared cauze what happens if I just never wake up even though ive had no life yet, I had a really good friend who was 7 and she woke up one day and found out she had lukemia and 6 months later she died, where is the justice in that??!?

[shakermaker]

...life ain't always fair.

why ppl scare death is cos they don't know what's after it...
i think it's just normal to scare death
and i'm a bit scared of what will happen when i die...althought i don't know why...

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Everyone is scared of death when faced with a threat to their lives but in general not much thinking about it.

It depends on your beliefs to, personally I will face death in a calm manner because I am interested in the experience but only when its time.

Life can be scary enough!

Read Sartre's The Wall.

[cubist]

don't worry bout it kid, death is the inevitable end to life it will take its course you must enjoy your life whilst you can, it may be hard but try not to think about it and move on with what you do have... life

[SittingBull47]

yep. it has to happen to everybody. The question is, how will you die?
:o

[cubist]

room for a thread in chitchat there sitting i think taht would be the place for it.

how would you die?

i vote death by something that is instant,

[Dune Dx]

Im not scared of death just the pain that may be involved.
what you should think about is what happens after death

[cubist]

why should you think about after death?

life is what you think about death who cares its all mumbojumbo and you don't find out till your dead, heaven hell any of it you never know

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

I would like to die from my throat being slit, I reckon if your gonna die you might as well go out with the whole experience, lack of breath, the whole blood seeping from the neck and the thoughts, Id give anything to know the last thoughts of a dying man.

People generally dont fear death they fear how it will happen, I say embrace it and worry about it only when the moment hits you.

[Dune Dx]

Cos if theres heaven and hell and you take that attitude ill worry about it when I get there it will be to late and you will spend eternity being tormented

[revoevo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2004, 03:22 PM
i vote death by something that is instant,
Really? I think I'd prefer to know I was dying. Not like for hours or days or anything, but I want a short time to mentally prepare for whatever I was about to face (possibly, if not probably, absolutely nothing).

I used to be really scared of death. For a few weeks last year I kept dreaming of my dogs and friends and family dying in really grotesque ways. It was really creepy :unsure: ... I'm still afraid of death to some degree, everyone is. I don't want to go too soon, but I'll be ready when I do. I just want time to do something meaningful with my life first...

Actually, if I'm afraid of anything, it's that people I love will die...

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Originally posted by Dune [email protected] 23 2004, 03:51 PM
Cos if theres heaven and hell and you take that attitude ill worry about it when I get there it will be to late and you will spend eternity being tormented

I have no basis for Heaven and Hell, as a humanist of sorts I cant imagine any need to worry of such things.

If there is a Heaven and Hell let me be judged, who cares, most likely I'll go to Hell.

[Dune Dx]

WHO CARES BLATENTLY YOU WILL!!!!!!!!! spending eternity forever and ever burning in complete misery - if this world has God in it try imagine one without

[revoevo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2004, 03:42 PM
I would like to die from my throat being slit, I reckon if your gonna die you might as well go out with the whole experience, lack of breath, the whole blood seeping from the neck and the thoughts, Id give anything to know the last thoughts of a dying man.

Well, if we're getting specific, I'd want to be shot in the stomach. I'm not sure why, but I guess I agree, if I'm going to go I think I want the blood, plus the whole feeling of knowing I was dying. Ok, so maybe its weird to have it all planned out...

I don't know if I really want to live to be elderly either. I've watched my grandparents all suffer old age, and voluteered at nursing homes, and honestly I don't ever want to endure that quality of life. Its really depressing, especially the nursing homes. Half of them are mistreated by the staff and screaming to go home... god, it's sad... :(

[cubist]

i sense a debate about your beliefs entering this world

enter the anti religous

firstly proove that god exists then i will accept that god exists,

ssconcdly why do you believe in a misogynistic immoral god whos rules make him a hypocrite.

what about if god doesn't exist now, where am i going when i die

hell heaven lets be honest eternity in hell or heaven would be much fun, the way i look at life it is time on earth that is the only garanteed existsed for you and you soul if it exists, no one can tell us about detah with out being dead which means they can't tell people who are alive.


The world wityh out your god would probably be different,

as A. jews wouldn't have existed so hitler would never have killed them,

b the crusades wouldn't have happened
c the medianites would still be around
d. palestine and isreal would be one rather than the remaining fueding nations of the 13 tribes of jacob (one of gods holy men)
e. hundreds of poeple would have found anopther way to concentrate there weaknesses,

science would be 200- or so years further infront, due to restrictions made by the church

the peace troubles in ireland wouldn't be taht all came round from aking james and henry VIII fights for power.

islam probably wouldn't exist which would mean no jihad no binladen and al'qeada no 911 no war on iraq etc etc etc etc etc etc

shall i go on, this is all speculation but if god didn't exist at all and everyone accepted it from day one we would be a better world.

iof you wish to deabate your faith open a thread or reply here,

[revoevo]

Originally posted by Dune [email protected] 23 2004, 03:59 PM
WHO CARES BLATENTLY YOU WILL!!!!!!!!! spending eternity forever and ever burning in complete misery - if this world has God in it try imagine one without
Even if there was heaven and hell, and to humor you I'll say possibly because I obviously do not know the secrets of the universe, it wouldn't really matter 'til you get there, right? Wouldn't it be based on how you live your life? I think people who need the incentive of heaven to be decent human beings in life deserve to die and find absolutely nothing there...

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

I dont have to imagine this world without God it already apparently is, at least I havent seen God around anywhere, have you Dune Dx

How am I supposed to care when my brain dies and I no longer have the faculties to understand my situation as a corpse that is burning in eternity.

If my body dies and my soul continues as a non-thing how will it burn?

[Dune Dx]

ahhh but it teaches in the bible that you will be given a new bible so that will burn ahhhhhhhhhhhh

Im just going to continue for a while with ahhhhing ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ah ah

and to the previous q do i see God's presence well yeah in the world and please dont say an explosion made it all I mean an explosion when a car blows up you dont see tiny bits of life shooting out of it

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

You see God everywhere? Wow, how come I keep missing him?

New specs methinks.

The Bible dosent equate with truth.

[cubist]

evidence of gods existence





























































did you see it,

sorry but blind faith is all it is,

self justification of gods existance is the only requirement of gods existance we can't proove your wrong as you can't proove your right, but

[Dune Dx]

How is the bible not true it matches up with historical evidence at the time.

and we have far more evidence that the bible is true than some historical events but we still accept them as fact

and I think the fact we have day and night - preventing us from going mad is proff God exists

we have gravity

we have lots of water which we need to live

and enough oxygen

and the rainforest which totally disprooves evolution cos everything depends on everything else meaning that they would all have to be there at the same time to survive because you can not have the fungus without the trees and animals you cant have the trees without the fungus and animals and you cant have the animals without the trees and fungus

If you get that they would all have to be created simultaneously because you cant have an animal adapt to something that doesnt exist yet!!!!!!!

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Dune Dx there are about 100 threads on this topic, there is a thread entitled God for Christs sake.

Fuck the Bible and stop spewing laboured tripe in my direction.

[cubist]

the bible is not true in multiple areas,

genesis claims creation of human being in in a state better than we are now, effectively meaning we are sub human to what your god intended.

lets have a look

one thing the bible is theory the fact that historical references only support that it was written in the times it claims, in no way do they proove gods existance, evolution also may be wrong i don't support either but hers some arguments against the bible

Evolution is a Fact and a Theory:

"In the American vernacular, "theory" often means "imperfect fact" - part of a hierarchy of confidence running downhill from fact to theory to hypothesis to guess. Thus the power of the creationist argument: evolution is "only" a theory and intense debate now rages about many aspects of the theory. If evolution is worse than a fact, and scientists can't even make up their minds about the theory, then what confidence can we have in it? Indeed, President Reagan echoed this argument before an evangelical group in Dallas when he said (in what I devoutly hope was campaign rhetoric): "Well, it is a theory. It is a scientific theory only, and it has in recent years been challenged in the world of science - that is, not believed in the scientific community to be as infallible as it once was."

Well evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them.

Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape-like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered.

Moreover, "fact" doesn't mean "absolute certainty"; there ain't no such animal in an exciting and complex world. The final proofs of logic and mathematics flow deductively from stated premises and achieve certainty only because they are NOT about the empirical world. Evolutionists make no claim for perpetual truth, though creationists often do (and then attack us falsely for a style of argument that they themselves favor). In science "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional consent." I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms.

Evolutionists have been very clear about this distinction of fact and theory from the very beginning, if only because we have always acknowledged how far we are from completely understanding the mechanisms (theory) by which evolution (fact) occurred. Darwin continually emphasized the difference between his two great and separate accomplishments: establishing the fact of evolution, and proposing a theory - natural selection - to explain the mechanism of evolution. "
- Stephen J. Gould, "Evolution as Fact and Theory"; Discover, May 1981



"...The controversies about evolution lie in the realm of the relative importance of various forces in molding evolution."
-- R. C. Lewontin "Evolution/Creation Debate: A Time for Truth



This concept is also explained in introductory biology books that are used in colleges and universities (and in some of the better high schools). For example, in some of the best such textbooks we find:

"Today, nearly all biologists acknowledge that evolution is a fact. The term THEORY is no longer appropriate except when referring to the various models that attempt to explain HOW life evolves... it is important to understand that the current questions about how life evolves in no way implies any disagreement over the fact of evolution.
- Neil A. Campbell, Biology 2nd ed., 1990, Benjamin/Cummings, p.434




the suggested evolutionary stages of man courtesy of ARON-rA on another website

Ardipithecus ramidus kadabba (5.8-5.2 mya) 5 sites, 5 individuals
Ardipithecus ramidus ramidus (4.4 mya) 2 sites, >50 individuals
Australopithecus afarensis (4.2-2.96 mya) 11 sites, ~120 individuals
Australopithecus africanus (2.9-2.4 mya) 7 sites, ~130 individuals
Australopithecus anamensis (4.17-3.9 mya) 2 sites, 10 individuals
Australopithecus bahrelghazali (3.5-3.0 mya) 1 site, 1 individual
Australopithecus garhi (2.5 mya) 3 sites, 4 individuals
Homo antecessor (800 kya) 1 site, 5 individuals
Homo erectus/ergaster (1.9-0.4 mya) 34 sites, 210 individuals
Homo habilis (2.3-1.6 mya) 7 sites, 25 individuals
Homo heidelbergensis (700-100 kya) 26 sites, 60 individuals
Homo sapiens neanderthalensis (250-25 kya) 31 sites, 77 individuals
Homo sapiens sapiens, >10 kya only (130 kya to recent) 75 sites,154
individuals
Homo rudolfensis (1.9 mya, 2 sites) 5 individuals
Kenyanthropus platyops (3.3 mya) 1 site, 3 individuals
Orrorin tugenensis (6.3-5.6 mya) 4 sites,5 individuals
Paranthropus aethiopicus (2.7-1.9 mya) 2 sites, 8 individuals

Paranthropus boisei (2.5-1.4 mya) 9 sites, 43 individuals
Paranthropus robustus (2.0-1.5 mya) 3 sites, 28 individuals
Sahelanthropus tchadensis (7.0-6.0 mya) 1 site, 6 individuals

Based on this limited data above, we have nearly 1,000 individuals, but the British Natural History Museum estimates as many as 4,000 individuals from a vast collection of as-yet-unidentified fragmentary hominid remains.


just a bit to argue the case of evolution over genesis, if you wish to debate theory then go to wht the bible is wrong and try and proove why the bible is right

[Dune Dx]

wahhhhhhhh you said you couldnt see evidence of God so I gave you some dont say nething against me if you dont want me to reply!!!!!!

think your so clever with your complicated words that I cant understand psch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lol

[Dune Dx]

Cephas is that a topic or are you telling me to start a topic?????


And just to finish with
just because the scientific world has excepted evolution as a fact doesnt mean it is so and should not be taught as such monkey to man is only a theory not something you can proove

so those dam teachers should stop teaching it as such!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cubist]

you can move it into a topic if you wish try and refute it by all means, you could just show me some references in the bible that show GODS existance, or maybe some science that we have never seen.


i don't need to debate you are the one telling me i will go to hell i just wish to know on what grounds?

i will not open a new thread as i open too many anti religion threads people get bored of them being there but you can and i will argue

[BOZG]

To be blunt, yes I think you're stupid for being afraid of death.

[Meursault]

Just don't think about it. Being morbid is a waste of time.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Originally posted by Dune [email protected] 23 2004, 04:49 PM
wahhhhhhhh you said you couldnt see evidence of God so I gave you some dont say nething against me if you dont want me to reply!!!!!!

think your so clever with your complicated words that I cant understand psch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lol
I would but I really dont understand what you are saying half the time:

For example:

wahhhhhhhh

psch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you said you couldnt see evidence of God - That just confuses me and I am not talking about the lack of grammar here.

[revoevo]

People who take the bible as truth over science scare me more that death does... :ph34r:

I mean, do you read what you're saying? Read it. Does it make sense?


How is the bible not true it matches up with historical evidence at the time.
Give me some sources, or at least examples, and I'll debate.

and we have far more evidence that the bible is true than some historical events but we still accept them as fact
Ditto...

and I think the fact we have day and night - preventing us from going mad is proff God exists

we have gravity

we have lots of water which we need to live

and enough oxygen

These don't prove god, they prove science. If you need evidence open an elementary school science textbook. It spells it all out pretty clearly.


and the rainforest which totally disprooves evolution cos everything depends on everything else meaning that they would all have to be there at the same time to survive because you can not have the fungus without the trees and animals you cant have the trees without the fungus and animals and you cant have the animals without the trees and fungus

If you get that they would all have to be created simultaneously because you cant have an animal adapt to something that doesnt exist yet!!!!!!!
It's called a symbiotic relationsip. It's a product of evolution, not proof against it. You're generalizing that all species evolve at the same rate. Evolution is a very slow, gradual process, not to mention random. I could get into it more and provide sources, but why bother? It's a waste of my time to hold up one side of a debate with someone who will always return to the Bible as their source of all knowing bullshit.

Also, if the scientific world accepts something as fact, its as factual as anything can get. That's the point of science, it proves facts and disproves myths to help us understand the world as best as possible. The Bible is a book. The only thing valuable that ever came from the Bible was possibly a few of the Commandments, some are decent guidelines to living, but that's about it. Anyway they've all been broken in the name of your god, so they've sort of cancelled themselves out.

I say don't start a thread of your own, it wouldn't even be a debate if you hold the Bible as fact. The Bible is no more evidence than a Where's Waldo book, and much less entertaining.

[cubist]

dune wheres you evidence to refute evolution? rainforests is hardly proof

look by all means believe in god, but the reason science is taught is for science not evolution, it isn't a trick by the system to premote science, the system premotes both and we all make decisions based on what we read, witness and understand as real, and what our parents suggest. its all about self justification, you have justified it to yourself but to justify it past that will take you on a long road to nowhere.

[redstar2000]

How did one of the old Greeks put it?

"Why should I fear death? Where I am, death is not. Where death is, I am not."

Another old Greek argument: Do you fear the time before you existed? Then why fear the time after you cease to exist?

Death is a dreamless sleep; though, admittedly, the process of dying can be pretty bad.

When people get old and seriously ill -- such that no possibility of a return to a normal life of dignity is possible -- it would be a kindness to let them die in peace. Only the Dutch do this so far...but I think that will become the universal human custom eventually.

As to the semi-literate "Dune DX", you folks were very kind to reply to him at such length...even though it's doubtful that he understood one word in ten of your explanations.

In the midst of civilization, there is still much barbarism.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.vze.com)
A site about communist ideas

[Dune Dx]

There is no point in me disproving evolution even if I could because evolution does no disproove the bible!!!!!!!

wait till saturday 4 me to come back with some decant things to argue with

and for those outside britain just work it out for yourselves what day that will be for you

[cubist]

Dune, there is no point youre right, as i said you can't, i can't use evolution to disproove the bible as evolution can't be wholey prooved, however i am happy to debate why the bible makes it impossible for the bible to be true,

prime example seeissues with exodus (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=23&t=23322)

if you want to debate it post in the other threads or make a new one, there are many believers like you on here, remember though its a debate of thepries in no way are you stupid.

rastafarians got it right with the burning bush wans marijuana and that moses halucinated god speaking to him

[revoevo]

Originally posted by Dune [email protected] 23 2004, 07:26 PM
There is no point in me disproving evolution even if I could because evolution does no disproove the bible!!!!!!!

wait till saturday 4 me to come back with some decant things to argue with

and for those outside britain just work it out for yourselves what day that will be for you
Firstly, you cannot prove or disprove the Bible. It's not fact and it can never be proved as fact, unless your god appears in the sky, affirms your beliefs, and sends all of us nonbelievers to hell. Now, I may be wrong, but I'm willing to stake my pride on the fact that he won't be doing that anytime soon.

Secondly, the FACT of evolution is just one of many things we have to show that the Bible is not factual, at least not in the literal way in which so many people take it.

So go ahead, if you wish to argue your points using evidence beyond what the Bible and the Pope says are true, make a new thread.

But why does it take you until saturday to collect your thoughts enough to form any arguments? :P

Kidding, I realize, or hope, it's because of absence from the forum. But please learn to spell, capitalize, and punctuate in the next few days. I'll let minor grammatical errors slide, but reading your posts is giving me a headache. Call it a geek thing ;)

edit: typo

[Umoja]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2004, 07:24 PM
Another old Greek argument: Do you fear the time before you existed? Then why fear the time after you cease to exist?

I was actually going to post what Redstar just posted. Even if your soul continues on after you die, it doesn't mean much since your brain doesn't.

[deus ex machina]

I concur with Redstar.

"After your death you will be what you were before your birth." -- Arthur Schopenhauer

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Fear of death is not unnatural or unusual, especially after the death of a relative or cherished pet.

About the religions thing; there is a bet or something, named after the person who thought it up, whereby you, publicly at least, adhere the rules and mores of a religion on the basis that if it's right then you get into heaven, and if it's wrong you've lost nothing. The trick I see here is joining the most liberal or wacky religion: at least then if it's all pointless you won't have lost much. I can't say I think much of this wager myself,
but I have given it some serious thought.

Are there any religions in which it is a sacrement to have lots of food, drugs, and sex? =D


"After your death you will be what you were before your birth." -- Arthur Schopenhauer

A sperm swimming in someone's testicle? Sorry, couldn't resist.

-NoX, swimming, somewhere.

[Dune Dx]

ahhhhhhh your pathetic remarks are so annoying there are only two people on this forum that have put up decant arguments against me.

First what does the Pope have to do with anything he is a stupid figure that is given too much power the Head of the church is Jesus so to all you catholics out there for this partickular forum help me but anyother I will debate with you so much that the Pope is wrong

and to the people that say "how can your soul go on if your brain has decayed bla bla" well if you could bother to read the bible you will see it talks about being given a new body

and im sorry to the people that are angry with me that I have to wait till saturday to post my arguments but as im in my GCSE year I have alot of course work to do and probably shouldnt be here posting this post

also Im 15 Im aloud to use txt talk but ive tried my best in this post to stop doing that so bye :angry:

[revoevo]

Don't you love chopping posts into little bits and replying to them piece by piece? Well... I do...

ahhhhhhh your pathetic remarks are so annoying
Firstly, chill out. Why all the "ahhhhs" and "waaaahhhs". We don't need to read your unintelligible screams and such...
Secondly, most everyone's remarks to you have been well thought out and certaintly not pathetic. How are we annoying? Is it because we disagree with you?

First what does the Pope have to do with anything he is a stupid figure that is given too much power the Head of the church is Jesus so to all you catholics out there for this partickular forum help me but anyother I will debate with you so much that the Pope is wrong
Ok, ok, I'm sorry. I assumed you followed the Pope. My mistake. Ignore that.
By the way, you can look long and hard, but in my few months of posting here I have not seen a Catholic. :unsure: Aye, they be a rare breed around here laddie...

well if you could bother to read the bible you will see it talks about being given a new body
:lol: You say "if you could bother to read the bible" like it's The Afterlife for Dummies or something.
The Bible is not irrefutable evidence. I'm sorry to be so harsh on the Bible, I respect it, but it simply cannot be taken literally. The point is, it is not scientific evidence of any kind. And scientific evidence, by that I mean evidence that can be proved or disproved as fact with science (even if its only the observation made by eyewitnesses, etc.), is the only kind of evidence that applies to this, and most other debates. You cannot prove the Bible. It's that simple. Stop using it to back up your claims and give some factual evidence for a change.

and im sorry to the people that are angry with me that I have to wait till saturday to post my arguments
I thought I made it clear I was kidding. Sorry for the misuderstading. Of course I'm not mad at you, that would be stupid. Internet message boards are not, in fact, my sole purpose of life, either, so I understand you not being able to reply at my every whim.

also Im 15 Im aloud to use txt talk but ive tried my best in this post to stop doing that
Age has nothing to do with posting decently, nor does it allow you to use "txt talk". Generally, people on this board put a little bit of effort into their posts to make them easily read and professional. I'm not going to chew you out over this, it's a dumb thing, and I thank you for making an effort to correct your posts, the last one was easier to read.

[insurgency03]

I personally am not afraid of death, if ur afraid of death then that might mean that u have some misgiving about how u lived, or regrets that u will never be able to do or accomplish somethings that u should have done earlier. Thats why i say live ur life on ur own agenda and get as much done for u and for anyone else ( if ur into helping people that is)

[dark fairy]

i didn't read what everyone wrote because im a bit short for time right now

well depending on how you approach this i mean when you're dead you're dead you don't feel or see because you're dead
not unless you believe in after-life and re-encarnation and all that stuff. i mean it's understandable if you are scared of HOW you are goin to die but dying itself im not sure...
i always say "the most anyone can do to me is kill me"

[Dune Dx]

A lot of this thread has spoken on science vs religion. An important point to be aware of is that they are both belief systems. Science is only fact, because God created it so.

[revoevo]

Science is factual, science can be proven. Religion is blind faith. Religion proves nothing. You can never prove that god created anything. You can only have faith that he did. You can deny god, because there are no facts to prove his existence. But you cannot deny science. Through science we logically explain the universe. Through religion we put blind faith in an illogical, un-prove-able system of beliefs. You can believe in science and religon, and you can believe in science, but how can you believe solely in religion?

I'm pretty well done with this. It's a circular argument, and I've been repeating myself all through it. You have effectively avoided my questions and points and responded in rather irrelevant ways. If you're not going to answer me, and always hold faith over fact, there's really no debate.

[Dune Dx]

Science is a belief system you cannot prove anything in this world we just choose it to be fact.

Dont think im some crazy guy that doesnt believe in science I just use science to explain my beliefs. I see the moon and the sun as signs that God exists. you see them as examples of why life has started and still progresses.

Anything I put forward as evidence for Gods existence you will say is unfounded and vice verca

Any way why should I have to prove my beliefs to you If im wrong I just die right If your wrong .... well its alot worse

[Dune Dx]

My beliefs can explain your disbeliefs and why the way the world is. your beliefs can merly explain the world we live in they cannot prove anything beyond it you have no proof that when we die we just die just the same as I have no proof (that you will accept) that there is a life after death!


Also som1 on here I think asked if there where all the plagues in egypt like stated in Exodus why arnt they written on egyptian walls and papyrus because the egyptians recorded even their losses in battle so surely they will recod this.

1st the idea of winning and loosing battle was invented by the greeks so wouldnt of existed by then so I dont know how you can say they recorded their losses because in their opinion they didnt have any.

2nd All the plagues happened in a week it is not likely that many people survived to record it. Whole army and pharoh dead then a large majority of the civilian population

[revoevo]

If science is a belief system it is based on observations, things we know to be true. I see the grass, I see that it is green. It is fact that the grass is green. I can't see god, I don't know he's there. You cannot percieve with your senses that god or religion is real.

We differ because you rely on faith and I rely on what I know to be real. While I accept the possibility of god I don't believe it's possible to know. I belive taking the Bible literally is ridiculous, that it is meant figuritively.

For these reasons we'll never be able to hold a debate because you cannot show me evidence to support your argument that I will accept as factual.

[cubist]

Dune dX,

i must say you have a terribly christian atitude, do not take offence to this comment it is not intended, i was a christian i am aware of the stance you take, you indeed think that GOD exists and that Jesus is your savior which is fine.

but your religion does not explain why the world is like it is. It merely provides a source of blame "inherent sin" or the inherent human nature to sin. A sin being anything that displeases god. But the religion not only blames something but itprovides a way out which is in leymans terms an easy way out, they believe that jesus the son of god died upon a cross and rose again three days later (refernce as you know to the predict the distruction and rebuilding of the church in three days), this is where your religion fails to proove anything other than man always wants something for nothing.

becuase there is no hard evidence just claims and paranormal phenomena and historical coincidence the religion could be fake as could any other religion or as wrong as science. there is no 100% proof else the other options wouldn't exist.

now Marx teaches us that religion is a tool of capitalism to ease the pain caused by capitalism, i believe this to be true i believe, now this doesn't mean that religion has no purpose quite the contrary it is by far the most useful thing the capitalists have used, it allows people to enjoy they're lives, but when the pain is gone becuase the cause has been removed (capitalism) religion will serve no purpose in society and will die in its national structure but remain as choice on a purely personal belief/guide for those that are creationists.

My main objection to religion is that blind faith is ignorant, and tolerance of ignorance and the obbsessive culture that is promoted by ignorance which leads to creation of CLASS and thus oppression of the lower classes

[quaz]

Science is neither proven fact nor a belief system. It is rather the recorded observations by people of the best explanation that they can conjure up to explain their surroundings. Over the centuries the "science" of the past has become falsehood.

Pythagoras said and I agree that the only fields in which true proof was possible are philosophy and maths. This is because in these subjects the proof is constructed around logic and undeniable fact. Scientific proof is merely a large amount of evidence in support and is rarely conclusive.

Quaz

[Dune Dx]

Testify!!!!!!!!!!!! :D