Babylon, Ancient City in a Modern War!

[Rasta Sapian]

An Ancient City by any means, said to be the birthplace of society, agriculture, law, etc.

It turns out that this ancient persian city lies between the euphrates, and the tigris rivers, in modern day Iraq! situated 100 miles or so south of Bagdad.

Does anyone have any info, or theory on or if america has any interest on this ancient city?

[Urban Rubble]

Why would America have any interest in a 2000 year old city ? Are you implying we went to war over an archeological site ?

But yeah, ancient Babylonia was said to be in Mesopotamia, modern day Iraq. Where is Zion ? Tel Aviv ?

[John Galt]

Zion=Jerusalem

[redstar2000]

Babylon -- the name means "Gate of the Gods" -- was one of the great cities of the ancient world.

http://www.gatewaystobabylon.com/

http://www.belteshazzar.com/

After being conquered by the Assyrian Empire (the "Nazis" of that era), Babylon rose in insurrection repeatedly. The Assyrians ruthlessly crushed every rebellion...except the last one.

Babylonian "mobs" killed the occupation garrison and then "marched" upriver to the Assyrian capital of Ninevah...where they massacred the entire population and leveled the city to the ground. So thorough was the destruction that Nineveh was abandoned forever.

A little history lesson for Americans.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.vze.com)
A site about communist ideas

[Monty Cantsin]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2004, 11:23 AM
A little history lesson for Americans.


Why only are American’s are you implying that there ignorant?

[redstar2000]

My experience has been that Americans are uniquely ignorant of the consequences of empire.

Indeed, I'm not sure that Americans will learn "the lesson of imperial folly" until they find themselves standing amidst the rubble of their cities hoping the occupation troops will give them something to eat.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.vze.com)
A site about communist ideas

[STI]

Where are you from, RS?

[cormacobear]

Touche' Red Star Touche'. We can hope they'll realize before that but it seems unlikely.

[John Galt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2004, 12:15 AM
My experience has been that Americans are uniquely ignorant of the consequences of empire.

Indeed, I'm not sure that Americans will learn "the lesson of imperial folly" until they find themselves standing amidst the rubble of their cities hoping the occupation troops will give them something to eat.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.vze.com)
A site about communist ideas
I doubt that.

[STI]

Originally posted by John Galt+Mar 25 2004, 12:43 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (John Galt @ Mar 25 2004, 12:43 AM)
[email protected] 25 2004, 12:15 AM
My experience has been that Americans are uniquely ignorant of the consequences of empire.

Indeed, I&#39;m not sure that Americans will learn "the lesson of imperial folly" until they find themselves standing amidst the rubble of their cities hoping the occupation troops will give them something to eat.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.vze.com)
A site about communist ideas
I doubt that. [/b]
History has proven that all empires will inevitably fall. Amerika is an empire, therefore, Amerika will fall.

[John Galt]

Originally posted by socialist_tiger+Mar 25 2004, 12:45 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (socialist_tiger @ Mar 25 2004, 12:45 AM)
Originally posted by John [email protected] 25 2004, 12:43 AM

[email protected] 25 2004, 12:15 AM
My experience has been that Americans are uniquely ignorant of the consequences of empire.

Indeed, I&#39;m not sure that Americans will learn "the lesson of imperial folly" until they find themselves standing amidst the rubble of their cities hoping the occupation troops will give them something to eat.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.vze.com)
A site about communist ideas
I doubt that.
History has proven that all empires will inevitably fall. Amerika is an empire, therefore, Amerika will fall. [/b]
Fall &#33;= invasion and takeover.


Britain was an empire, the sun now sets on the british empire.

[Osman Ghazi]

Britain was an empire, the sun now sets on the british empire.

Umm... Have you ever heard of the Battle of Britain?
You know, London, Bristol and all those other nice cities left in ruin?

[John Galt]

Originally posted by Osman [email protected] 25 2004, 01:50 AM

Britain was an empire, the sun now sets on the british empire.

Umm... Have you ever heard of the Battle of Britain?
You know, London, Bristol and all those other nice cities left in ruin?
Thats funny. I was there last year, I didnt see a smoking crater.

[Take the Power back]

Originally posted by Osman [email protected] 25 2004, 01:50 AM

Britain was an empire, the sun now sets on the british empire.

Umm... Have you ever heard of the Battle of Britain?
You know, London, Bristol and all those other nice cities left in ruin?
The Battle of Britain occured because England declared war on another country (Germany) that was prepared for war, not because they were a colonial power. A better example would have been Hitler&#39;s take over of Eastern Europe, and eventually being beaten, with Berlin in ruins.

[redstar2000]

The British did indeed escape the usual fate of empire; they walked away from most of it before it completely blew up in their faces.

But, as I indicated, Europeans are more knowledgeable in this regard...as are Asians. The examples of Germany and Japan are actually taught to people there as history, not political pornography.

Americans are on a long "winning streak" and "think", like the dumbest crap-shooter in Vegas, that they can never lose. Korea was a warning. Vietnam was an even sterner warning. Nothing was learned...not even from 9/11.

For Americans, the idea that the whole world could unite against them -- the way the whole world united against the Germans and the Japanese -- is literally unthinkable.

As one who was born and raised here and have been around Americans for all of my 62 years...I can assure the reader that I am speaking from first hand experience.

With few exceptions, Americans really believe that they have been "chosen by God" to "guide" (rule) the world...that it&#39;s their "manifest destiny".

Those who accept American guidance (the U.K., Australia, etc.) will be permitted "supporting roles" and gain some small rewards along the way.

But think how things will look as matters develop along their present lines: millions of American troops occupying dozens of restive countries; the necessity of military conscription on an unprecedented scale; the imposition of quasi-fascism domestically; the steady immiseration of the working class to support this bloated empire; the multiplication of "national security threats"; and so on, and so on, and so on.

How can this come to an end short of proletarian revolution...or World War III?

A war that America would lose...catastrophically&#33;

Listen to the advice of an old gambler: all winning streaks come to an end eventually -- there are no exceptions.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.vze.com)
A site about communist ideas

[John Galt]

WWII was lost not due to some inevitable law of empires, but because hitler was a moron.


Invading russia was stupid. Doing it so close to winter was something any student of french history could have told you not to do.



If Hitler didnt try to run the war, I might be typing in German right now. (probably not here actually)

[Monty Cantsin]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2004, 12:15 AM
My experience has been that Americans are uniquely ignorant of the consequences of empire.

Indeed, I&#39;m not sure that Americans will learn "the lesson of imperial folly" until they find themselves standing amidst the rubble of their cities hoping the occupation troops will give them something to eat.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.vze.com)
A site about communist ideas
i&#39;d have to agree with you.

[Comrade BNS]

"apparently" Babylon is in Iraq? lol sorry, but yes it is Definately in Iraq&#33;
"apparently" you didn&#39;t study history and or geography.

And a historical inaccuracy, Babylon did not develop agriculture, laws etc.. it was before their time. These social institutions were developed by the Sumerians (of which the Babylonians were a sub-group) in the city of Sumer.

And Redstar why do you say that the Assyrians were Nazi&#39;s? The built on the institutions of the Babylonians, and were no less or more imperical then the Babylonians themselves or any other people&#39;s of the time for that matter. And actually by definition the Assyrians could not be Nazi&#39;s as they were the first known Semitic state and empire.

But otherwise I agree with everything said about the fall of empire so far.

Comrade BNS

[redstar2000]

And Redstar why do you say that the Assyrians were Nazi&#39;s?

According to contemporary accounts, the Assyrians didn&#39;t just conquer (everyone did that whenever they could). They were infamous for the brutality of their conquests...pyramids of skulls, massacres of civilians, etc.

Funny you should ask; when I was writing that post, I wrote "Americans of their era" and went back and edited it to read "Nazis of their era". It didn&#39;t refer to their "race" but rather to their infamy.


WWII was lost not due to some inevitable law of empires, but because Hitler was a moron.

Hindsight, John. At the time, he was winning. His lackeys called him "the Greatest Field Marshall of All Time".

Indeed, all the "western military experts" thought that the USSR would collapse within a few months...another "brilliant stroke" by Hitler.

Having won a European empire at history&#39;s roulette table, he "let it ride" for one more bet. He "couldn&#39;t lose".

"Rouge&#33;" announced the croupier...and, like many a gambler, he ended up shooting himself.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.vze.com)
A site about communist ideas

[Osman Ghazi]

Actually he didn&#39;t really have a choice. He had originally planned to invade in May but then Mussolini got his ass kicked by the Greeks and the Nazis had to finish the job for him. Because of that, he had to put off the invasion until June. And don&#39;t say that he couldn&#39;t have done it the next year because that would have been even more disastrous if he had all the USSR more time to build up the Red Army.

[cubist]

thank you redstar i was unaware of what you said and i am not american.

[Rasta Sapian]

Thanks for the information&#33;

I was hoping there would be more remains of the ancient city, ruins etc.

The place known as Babylon, does have an amazing history, and turns out to be the birth of civilization.
That is in mesapotamia. Named by the greek meaning the the valley between 2 rivers, which lead to the persian gulf. It turns out that the origional inhabitants were called Sumarians and are said to have created everything from mathematics to agriculture, as well as a primitive law, which was later developed into a code of laws, known to be the oldest recorded scribe ever unearthed. This dates back to the years of the Babylonian King Hammurabi, who ruled almost 2 thousand years before christ.

In its time, Babylon was the largest city in the world. The Iraqi people and the people of persia in gerneral have an amazing history, Which appers to be misunderstood for the most part, especially in the west&#33;

this is a link for more information on the topic: http://i-cias.com/e.o/babylon.htm

peace yall

[Rasta Sapian]

more information: Check out this link for a photo tour of the ruins of ancient Babylon, or should I say Suddam Houssain&#39;s Palace&#33; See pictures taken my the US military of these ancient ruins&#33;

http://architecture.about.com/library/bl-babylon.htm