nazism=communism :angry:

[ComradeRed]

bull site (http://constitutionalistnc.tripod.com/hitler-leftist/id9.html) hey, if anyone has the time (redstar2000 in particular) could write a rebutal to this. It is bull comrade, it postulates incorrect things, I am a better PhD than the dude who wrote that!

[timbaly]

I'm sick of this argument, i've seen it far too many times and each time the side that says Hitler was not a socialist wins. The truth is he was neither a hardcore socialist or a hardcore capitalist. I would say he was deinetely on the right side of the spectrum but closer to the origin than the extreme of 100% capitalism.

[Don't Change Your Name]

I already knew that site.

Pretty "convincing" but still wrong. Nazism was centrist, as you can see of how they claim that they dislike both socialism and capitalism, but "national-socialism is the perfect mix of both". In my economical spectrum, there are three options: you are on the left (socialist), you are on the right (capitalist) or you are in the middle (mixed economy). Basically the nazi Germany was a aryans-only welfare state with "social darwinism" against Jews and other "minorities".
I think nazism is closer to conservatism, with it's paranoid attitude, the hatred of a certain group ("let's kill the liberals!"), their distrust of those who are different to them, their nationalism, the old-fashioned morality, and many other attitudes. The problem is that the cappies are obsessed with their egoism, and with the belief that if you disagree with them you are a collectivist altruist authoritarian totalitarian leftist.
I don't think Hitler was exactly insane, he was just an utopian racist idiot who had studied everything he needed to gain the masses support by propaganda, speeches, image, etc. This helps the cappies argument because of the nazi's populist attitude of promising a job to the unemployed, wealth to the poor, overall economical improvement to the capitalist, etc. which is something cappies use to show how "leftist" hitler was.

I think someone should post about this in the OI forum so that those cappies end up defeated after discussing a bit.

[monkeydust]

What a clever author we have! I don't know what this guy has a PhD in, though I admire his ability to write so much, without really saying anything at all.

I concede I only scan read the document, though even through this meager inspection it's clear the guy has his history muddled up.

After posting a list of the National Socialist manifesto's leftist aspects he wrote:


So who put that manifesto forward and who was responsible for the summary quotes given before that? Was it the US Democrats, the British Labour Party, the Canadian Liberals, some European Social Democratic party? No. The manifesto is an extract from the (February 25th., 1920) 25 point plan of the National Socialist German Workers Party and was written by the leader of that party: Adolf Hitler.So who put that manifesto forward and who was responsible for the summary quotes given before that? Was it the US Democrats, the British Labour Party, the Canadian Liberals, some European Social Democratic party? No. The manifesto is an extract from the (February 25th., 1920) 25 point plan of the National Socialist German Workers Party and was written by the leader of that party: Adolf Hitler.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Idiot. Anybody with any knowledge of Nazi history will be aware that at the writing of the 25 points Hitler was not the leader of the NSDAP. He was involved in its compilation, though his role was likely quite limited, being primarily responsible for propaganda at the time.

I don't deny that Hitler claimed to support some Socialist ideals. Though unlike the author here, I know that Hitler lied. Nazism was successful, partially because it appealed to almost everyone, revolutionaries and reactionaries.

If we look at what Hitler actually did it's clear that he never implemented any form of Socialism. It was, in reality the bourgeois class that helped Hitler get into power.

Another idiotic quote:


And the Russians and the Poles (whom Hitler also attacked) are rather more frequently blonde and blue-eyed (Hitler's ideal) than the Germans themselves are!

Aside from the histrical innacuracies of this article, the author's understanidng of political ideology is shoddy at best. He seems unable to distinguish between 'leftist', 'socialist' or 'collectivist'.

It's clear that he believes any collectivist ideology to be leftist, this is untrue. Fascism is the antithesis of individualism, it advocates blind obedience and submission to the will of the 'nation', socialists merely support collective cooperation for mutual benefit.

Hitler was not a capitalist by todays standards, though his 'leftist' policies were only an inevitable result of the times, FDR did the same in the U.S., Hitler couldn't support international trade, merely because in the depression trade itself was crippled.

Hilter advocated National economic self-suffieciency or 'Autarchy', the author seems to believe that this makes him leftist, myself I don't see how.

Unlike a leftist Hitler always belived the most fundemental social cleavage to be one of ethnicity, not one of class.

I can't be bothered to write any more, though I leave you with some quotes from Hitler. Judge for yourself if he was leftist:


The stronger must dominate and not mate with the weaker, which would signify the sacrifice of its own higher nature

On the German Socialist party:


A monstrosity of the human mechanism


Those who are physically and mentally unhealthy and unfit must not perpetuate thier suffering on the bodies of their children

[New Tolerance]

LOL!

What's next? If George Bush's grand plans fail, I bet they will start calling him a Leftist!

The Neo-Nazis will probably be pissed off at this guy too, they will say: "Wtf? The greatest human being that ever walked the planet is a dirty Hippy Leftist? STFU!"

[SittingBull47]

yea thats pure bull. When did the word leftist become synonymous with scum? Damn society.

[monkeydust]

To be fair I can see where the author was coming from.

Hitler was by no means pro-capitalist, he wasn't a great supporter of international trade and the free market, he did, to an extent have an economy controlled, in some areas by the state.

Though the author's understanding of history is damningly flawed, he also seems to assume that simply because Hitler wasn't vehemently pro-capitalist that he was inevitably a leftist.


I would expect better from someone with a PhD.

[Xvall]

No. He is right. Hitler was a socialist and an icon of modern leftism. Hitler was the jerk behind the narferious civil-rights movement; MLK was actually a Nazi, and Malcolm X worked on behalf of the neo-nazi movement in the United States. Nevermind the fact that all nazis and supporters of Hitler admit that they are hardcore nationalists and right-wingers. Hitler was a liberal.