Had a talk with a student-teacher of History

[Take the Power back]

A student teacher has been teaching my US History class, while the regular history teacher (a brilliant man) grades him. We had about about 5 minutes left in US History yesterday, and I was talking to the ST about different things. I mentioned that the school library didn't have a certain book (Guerilla Warfare) although they used to. He looked at me strangely, so I said "Ernesto Guevara?" and to my surprise, he said back "Oh, Che!" Someone next to me asked who Che was, so I gave a short description.
The ST then went on to say that Che was an extremely intelligent individual and is often seen in the wrong way by many people. He said that it bothers him to see Che on t-shirts, because he gets the feeling that A) That person has no idea who he is, and they are wearing it because someone else did, or B) That they only wear it because he has something to do with revolution, but they don't know what that is. I was surprised that this young man who I had already labled as an idiot knew about Che, and the things he did. I wish we had more time that class period, we could have talked forever. I am curious to know if anyone else has had this type of experiance?

[BuyOurEverything]

Actually, I also had a student teacher in history that knew who Che was. I wore a Che shirt and he commented on it, and I talked with him for a while after class. Apperantly, him and his friends had researched the Cuban revolution alot in college and he was a big fan of Che. Where do you live?

[nz revolution]

Tell the library to get the joint addition of Che and Mao's work on guerilla warfare as Che's method only worked in Cuba, and not in Argentina where some of his associates?/comrades went, and Bolivia which unfortuantely ended in disater as well all know (goddamn CIA (criminals in action))

I wrote an essay on the differences between the two, some of you may to sad to know that Mao came out on top.

I still must read the rest of Mao's (not that it is much use to those of us in the Frist World, either of them).

I also think Che correctly wrote about armed revolutions like those of Che and Mao's styles don't work in countries where there is democracy, or at least people think they live in a democracy. People knew they didnt live in a democracy in Cuba and they sure as hell knew they didnt live in a democracy in China. Bolivia was a sort of democracy as from what I can remember and the govt. had done some degree of land reform as to buy people off.

Im at fuckin uni now, surrounded by the future fuckin bourgeoisie.

We have a club called the dah dah dah daaaaah Anti-Capitalist Society
Anti-Cap Soc (http://www.anticapitalistsociety.tk)

[bluerev002]

Not with any student teachrs, But a teacher of mine who I STILL dont like, is extremly to the right, and talks about US patriotism all the time, told me that he had a copy of Mao's little red book. I stared at him for probably a whole minute, cuz here he was this extremly right winged man who put me down on every left statement I made, was saying he owed, and was willing to lend me, his copy of the littel red book.


Yeah, people suprise you, so I learned not to judge people when they say a few things.

[shakermaker]

Originally posted by Take the Power [email protected] 17 2004, 11:19 PM
He said that it bothers him to see Che on t-shirts, because he gets the feeling that A) That person has no idea who he is, and they are wearing it because someone else did, or B) That they only wear it because he has something to do with revolution, but they don't know what that is.
oh yeah, i have the same feeling every time i see a che-shirt!
...so sometimes i start to ask him/her about che, and why he/she wears it...
and stuff like that...

[seen_che]

Why where you suprised :huh:
I think that if a person is a history techer he/she HAS to know who Che is.....

[SittingBull47]

hey i'd be surprised too. ur ST is a smart man. I live in pennsylvania, so people around here can't even spell "Che"

[Dirty Commie]

This has happened to me twice, with the only other two people in my school who have ever worn a che shirt.

[leftist manson]

che t shirts are a whole lotta fun
but i have the feeling that in industrialized countries if young men wear che shirts they are probably taking him as a poster child of youth rebellion
not as a dirty commie :D :D

[nz revolution]

Yeah singing up future cadres at the university, there was some guy raving on about how its only a t shirt and he has lots of them and doesnt consider himself a leftist. I bet he wouldnt wear Adolf Hitler on a shirt, its only a shirt after all. fuckin fools.

Thats interesting about the Little Red Book, I have one that I lent to a Nepalese comrade (in his home country, there is the armed struggle waged by the CPN (maoist) if people arent aware against the King, who is backed by the USA AND CHINA!)

[SlimJin]

Today I was helping a kid in my chemistry class after class and my teacher saw my book, "Che: A Revolutionary Life by John Lee Anderson" and she was very surprised at that. Then she asked me if I was a Communist I told her I am nothing but interested in Communist ideals. She then began asking me a whole bunch of questions on why I liked Che and Communism*She told me about how she was a political refugee from Russia who came to America for freedom. She then said something very surprising, she said that all the talk about a democracy in the US was all on the surface and that there was no real truth to it saying that she felt there is almost no difference between the democracy of Russia back in the 80's and here in the US so the US wasnt all she had expected. She wasnt against Communism in the way that she was talking to me about it. She told me it was a beautiful idea but simply couldnt work. I responded that the problem with people was that they all sit back and criticize it for not being a functioning ideal but if we really wanted to improve it we would have to go through many trials making many mistakes until it was perfected and it is a goal worth reaching. Im sure she could have shot down any of my remarks down seeing as she lived under Communist rule for most of her life but she was cool about it.

*She was merely asking to prod my brain I guess it wasnt in an attacking manner.

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

I was wearing a Che shirt at school. The only people who knew who Che was were the art teachers. :lol:

[seen_che]

When I´m wearing my Che shirt at school, no body said anything. But most people now ho he is.....I think. :blink:

[pandora]

student teacher, not a preacher, sneak it in, begin again. Not his story, or her story, but different stories, from different times, from different points of view.
Whose the teacher, wots a teacher, where does teacher stop and student begin, we are all learning.

[mysticofthewest]

I am studing to become a history professer when i fanilly make it I would like to have an extened unit on the left and che in general

[MiniOswald]

pandora ur turning a little dr seuss there

[Forward Union]

Well, my history teacher is a huge Che fan, she knows his life story inside out. The strange thing is she's not at all left wing, infact she hates Marxism. I guess its to do with the selflessness of his character, and the hope that one day we will all be as honourable as Che. To be willing to die so that some stranger, somewhere, can have a better life is possible the greatest thing a person can do.

She claims that when she went to school, her teacher (who by the way, was a missionary teacher) met Che during his campaign in Bolivia. Im not sure if there is any truth to this story; but i remember Che mentioning visiting a school in his Bolivian Diary, could be true.

[bighead631]

I had some what of the same expierence my teacher had a picture of him in his room I didnt thinked he put it there because he didnt look like the type of person that would put it there he is a computer teacher I ask him If this picture was his he said yes i was so suprised because almost nobody in my school Knows who che is I didnt get to talk to him because the bell was about to ring
I am happy he put that picture there because people always ask who is he and i give them a short biography :)

[Urban Guerrilla]

I was in class, I had a Che image on the back of my hoodie (I bought a t-shirt from a poor man and the shirt had wholes and stuff so I cut the image out and pinned it to the back of my hoodie) my Spanish teacher, (who is only 22 and looks and sometimes acts extremely stuck up, but nevertheless wise), started questioning me on the man on my back. He asked me what his full name was, where he was born, what revolution he lead, and all sorts of stuff and I answered the questions correctly. He told me to follow him into his office and the man had several books on Che. I never saw it coming.

EDIT* He also brought up the fact about people having his face plastered on apparel and not knowing who he is. He thought I was one of those people.

[LaVictoria]

While I was reading you're stories, I couldn't help laughing. Most people these days are so ingnorant. I was wearing a shirt with Che on it and a girl of my class came to me and said "Che is cool" I was happy to find out that there are more people that know who Che is. But boy was I wrong. I asked her why she finds him cool. she said "yeah, he has great shirts"... omg, she thought he was a model/ or fashion guy *sigh*
But my history teacher is a great fan of Communism and Che. He became my favourite teacher

[Intifada]

My History teacher is a Marxist Historian, so we have a lot of lively discussions about Communism.

[Anarcho-Communist]

hardly any of my teachers know who che is!!
i asked some of the history ones and they don't know who he is

Peace, Love, Empathy

[Dre_Guevara]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2005, 06:59 PM
While I was reading you're stories, I couldn't help laughing. Most people these days are so ingnorant. I was wearing a shirt with Che on it and a girl of my class came to me and said "Che is cool" I was happy to find out that there are more people that know who Che is. But boy was I wrong. I asked her why she finds him cool. she said "yeah, he has great shirts"... omg, she thought he was a model/ or fashion guy *sigh*
But my history teacher is a great fan of Communism and Che. He became my favourite teacher
Hahaha, that's funny but really sad. It pisses me off though. I've had the same experience with girls like that when I would wear Che shirts. They think he's like some hot/rebel teen pop figure. Fucking ignorant *****es...I refer mostly to dumb blondes.

And about having the similar experience with a history teacher, well let's just say that my 10th grade history teacher hated communism along with any revolutionary political figure and i come from a very ethnic neighborhood in NYC. He was just Irish trash. But that was like 5 years ago and I haven't had any experiences with a teacher about Che ever since.

[bed_of_nails]

I have two stories relevant to this topic...

The first occured today in my history class. I wear Che apparel all of the time. Che is my hero. My US History teacher (A "Moderate") noticed this and decided to get into an argument against Communism with me in front of the entire class. His platform was that Communism was inherently Totalitarian, and always would be. He then proceeded to "inform" me that Capitalism was always Democratic. I decided I should sit down and stop arguing there, because this teacher gives people grades on how much he enjoys their presence. This was a huge blow to my pride, but I cannot afford to fail a class because of my political beliefs.


On another note... I left a mall a couple of months ago and didnt realize I was being followed by three Neo-Nazis. I arrived at my vehicle when they decided it was time to confront me. I may have been outnumbered, but I was going to go down fighting against these assholes (I am a martial arts instructor, but the odds of me being able to beat three people in a fight are negligable). I got very lucky. My best friend saw what was going on, pulled his car up beside us before the fight even had the first blow landed, and decided to explain to our new friends that if they did not walk away from this he would be forced to use the baseball bat in his left hand.

The moral of these stories is that we Communists are outnumbered and discriminated against in America because of our economic views and the prejudices against us. If "The Jewish Hippie" had not arrived at that time I would have been in a much more battered condition. I feel bad about not arguing against my incorrect History teacher, but I saw this as my only way for personal survival.

[RevolutionaryLeftist]

hahaha my history teacher calls me che, because i have a che book bag and i idolize him. he's a cool guy. it bothers me though how so many people just wear the fucking shirts because they "look cool" or "he was a revolutionary so im gonna be anti" i can't stand posers. if you're gonna get the damn shirt, at least research him so you don't look like a fucking fool.

[NovelGentry]

Fucking ignorant *****es...I refer mostly to dumb blondes.

...

He was just Irish trash.

Glad to see you uphold the revolutionary mindset.

[pandora]

Sorry, can't resist, Che's reaction to yet another ignorant kid wearing his image on his shirt jumping out of the SUV at the mall, cell phone and video game in tow, to curse out some "Ignorant *****es" who don't know who Che is!

[NovelGentry]

Pandora, you sound like you&#39;re opposing the idea of cursing out "ignorant *****es" -- especially dumb blondes, would you happen to be <insert commonly oppressed nationality that still struggles with acceptance that you happen to be> trash?

[pandora]

No human being is trash&#33; Our societies obsession with throwing vast amounts of materials into the trash has upgraded to even "trashing" human beings, particularly those who are impoverished. Being poor does not make people trash, it makes them Revolutionary.

regardless, I must say, an awful lot of "trash" comes out of the mouths of those who don&#39;t practice what they preach. But then I&#39;m preaching to the choir :lol:
You&#39;ve always been one for calling people on the ignorant trash that can come out of people&#39;s mouths. As far as degrading women, I&#39;m not blond but the idea of degrading a human being based on hair color or skin tone sounds like racism and sexism too me.

Good to see you back Novel Gentry&#33;

[NovelGentry]

You&#39;ve always been one for calling people on the ignorant trash that can come out of people&#39;s mouths.

And will continue to do so, but what nationality they are has nothing to do with what comes out of their mouth ;) -- big difference between prejudging and judging. On that last note though, I suppose it does have something to do with what coms out of their mouth, at least what language it&#39;s in.

<I&#39;m hoping everyone actually realized I was mocking the original poster who said these things -- in case people skip ahead past his original and rediculous post>

[pandora]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2005, 10:16 AM


And will continue to do so, but what nationality they are has nothing to do with what comes out of their mouth ;) -- big difference between prejudging and judging. On that last note though, I suppose it does have something to do with what coms out of their mouth, at least what language it&#39;s in.

<I&#39;m hoping everyone actually realized I was mocking the original poster who said these things -- in case people skip ahead past his original and rediculous post>
Was assuming you were referring to cursing and other ignorance here, not that I myself don&#39;t curse from time to time, not sure that what you are saying language wise is particularly clear, almost reminds me of judgement based on dialectics or regional dialect, are you speaking of nationality. Honestly nationality means little to me, its compassion that is interesting and the drive to make life better for others.

Anyhoo, the original post here really speaks for itself.

[NovelGentry]

No, I was just saying you might be able to determine someone&#39;s nationality by what language they were speaking. Which contradicts my original statement that nationality has nothing to do with what&#39;s coming out of your mouth. People who spout ignorant trash are free to be judged on the ignorant trash they spout, but never by nationality as the original usage of "Irish trash" implied.

[pandora]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2005, 11:07 PM

i come from a very ethnic neighborhood in NYC. He was just Irish trash.
This is particularly disgusting to me as some of the bravest Revolutionaries I&#39;ve ever met, ie.) par example the film crew that stayed in the palace during the hostile takeover of Chavez&#39;s Venezuala, are Irish. The centuries of persecution that the nation has endured as a people has given rise to some amazing Revolutionaries with big compassionate hearts, who have done deep studies on the effects of oppression on a people which have helped other groups to understand the cycle of violence on their own people at the hands of oppression.

But of coarse there are Irish who are racist as well, Bedford Stuvensant riots etc. all of which really sucks&#33; We need to learn to "Unite within diversity" like Freire talked about in Pedagogy of the Oppressed.

I really hope this child is "Healed" by the light of wisdom fire, before someone knocks some sense into them.

I have only two things to say to this child, " Listen and Learn to respect others if you want to understand anything&#33;"

Truth is you can learn something from everyone even your enemies, racism is racism and nothing but.

[bed_of_nails]

Originally posted by pandora+Mar 23 2005, 07:36 AM--> (pandora @ Mar 23 2005, 07:36 AM)
[email protected] 28 2005, 11:07 PM

i come from a very ethnic neighborhood in NYC. He was just Irish trash.
This is particularly disgusting to me as some of the bravest Revolutionaries I&#39;ve ever met, ie.) par example the film crew that stayed in the palace during the hostile takeover of Chavez&#39;s Venezuala, are Irish. The centuries of persecution that the nation has endured as a people has given rise to some amazing Revolutionaries with big compassionate hearts, who have done deep studies on the effects of oppression on a people which have helped other groups to understand the cycle of violence on their own people at the hands of oppression.

[/b]
I agree with you... But this must be said.

The Irish have also spawned Bill O&#39;Reilly and Sean Hannity. For those who dont know who they are, both of them are Irish newsmen who work for FOX, one of the most distorted and right-wing news channels in existence.

[LaVictoria]

my god, okay, there&#39;s this guy at my school, really STUPID&#33; He&#39;s a capitalist and proud of it :blink: ... and he always begins with discussions, and one day he said something like : "well here in Holland they must shoot the muslims, nazi&#39;s and socialists".. so I said "hm, let me think, there was this man, who didn&#39;t like jews, who thought just like that".. he: " so you&#39;re saying that I&#39;m like Hitler?" I said: "well if the shoe fits"...and his face was like this >> :unsure: / :blink:

and there&#39;s a teacher, who said that Stalin was way worse than Hitler.... <_<

People nowadays...*sigh*

[{GR}Raine]

Ive had kids ask me about More&#39;s utopia, communism, and Che. the reaction I get is "It only works on paper" sO I then ensue to show them that it CAN work. actually, in less than 3 weeks, theres going to be a formal debate between Me, A fellow leftist of mine, and oddly enough, a very hardcore republican against these two very conservative, very religous girls on the subject of "Should the world turn to a communist society" And I am sure we will win. I mean, all I have to do is prove that all these "communist countries" are not really communist, that through capitalism there is major poverty, that even though communism may have a few flaws, it is better than capitalism, and since we have seen the evls of capitalism, and communism is a perfect-like state, it is almsot impossible to lose. This will however be interesting since the teacher thats presiding over the debate is strongly anti-communist, and the judges are my fellow right-wing classmates.

Onto another subject, Ive had teachers ask me about it, and I just give them a brief overview and that i am only "interested" but most of the kids think im a definite communist. Which, im not, but i am in no way anti-communist. I just feel that I should study, analyze, and be patient while reasearching this.

[encephalon]

If "The Jewish Hippie" had not arrived at that time I would have been in a much more battered condition. I feel bad about not arguing against my incorrect History teacher, but I saw this as my only way for personal survival.

Wow.. this "Jewish Hippie" wouldn&#39;t be the same guy I know with the same moniker, I&#39;m sure.. but a remarkable coincedence, nonetheless.


and since we have seen the evls of capitalism, and communism is a perfect-like state, it is almsot impossible to lose.

you may want to start of by not referring to anything in communism as a state.. you could have been referring to the ethereal version of the word rather than political, but it could be easily confused.


Hahaha, that&#39;s funny but really sad. It pisses me off though. I&#39;ve had the same experience with girls like that when I would wear Che shirts. They think he&#39;s like some hot/rebel teen pop figure. Fucking ignorant *****es...I refer mostly to dumb blondes.

Those "ignorant *****es" and "dumb blondes" are supposed to be who you are all for freeing from oppression, whereas labeling them as such is an act of oppression in itself. You either have a very undeveloped sense of being even remotely leftist, and in desperate need of being re-educated, or you&#39;re an asshole. Same goes for the "Irish" comment, too.

Christ.

[Bolshevist]

My old history teacher was a pro-Stalin Marxist-Leninst. I had a lot of good time discussing matters with her, and it resulted in me becoming a Marxist-Leninist :)

[encephalon]

and there&#39;s a teacher, who said that Stalin was way worse than Hitler....

he killed more than hitler, according to soviet records signed by himself.

[bed_of_nails]

I am not a fan of the Stalin murders, but I have one question nagging at my mind. Capitalists always bring up the number of deaths caused by communism, but how many die because of Capitalism?

[pandora]

Originally posted by bed_of_nails+Mar 23 2005, 05:27 PM--> (bed_of_nails @ Mar 23 2005, 05:27 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2005, 07:36 AM

[email protected] 28 2005, 11:07 PM

i come from a very ethnic neighborhood in NYC. He was just Irish trash.
This is particularly disgusting to me as some of the bravest Revolutionaries I&#39;ve ever met, ie.) par example the film crew that stayed in the palace during the hostile takeover of Chavez&#39;s Venezuala, are Irish. The centuries of persecution that the nation has endured as a people has given rise to some amazing Revolutionaries with big compassionate hearts, who have done deep studies on the effects of oppression on a people which have helped other groups to understand the cycle of violence on their own people at the hands of oppression.


I agree with you... But this must be said.

The Irish have also spawned Bill O&#39;Reilly and Sean Hannity. For those who dont know who they are, both of them are Irish newsmen who work for FOX, one of the most distorted and right-wing news channels in existence. [/b]
I also said this but you cut that part out:
"But of coarse there are Irish who are racist as well, Bedford Stuvensant riots etc. all of which really sucks&#33; We need to learn to "Unite within diversity" like Freire talked about in Pedagogy of the Oppressed."

According to urban legend, race riots between African American slaves and Irish workers started with coal mines and shipping work where large numbers of men were lost, the plantation owners supposedly didn&#39;t want to lose "property"

yea we can talk about how many were lost on pursuit of property right there if we want to really get into it, forget Stalin, Capitalism is still killing millions today as we speak in the form of poverty and neglect in the Global South.

But anyway as many of you from the US are probably aware the story goes that due to the racism against Catholics Irish were used for jobs that people didn&#39;t come back from because they were plentiful with the potato famine, they were cheap--they were not "property" so there death was meaningless to the owners, as well as later immigrants which also has continued, more deaths for your Capitalist death toll, and as Catholics were seen as less by God and therefore extinguishable.

This led to jealousy and later hatred among the Irish workers against African Americans which flared up in the draft riots depicted in "Gangs of New York" where Irish to be drafted hung and terrorized African American men on the streets in the days of the Civil War out of anger at being drafted for a war they saw as being to free them. In actuality it was more about Northern factories versus Southern cotton.

But this led to a lot of the fighting in Brooklyn and the Bronx. My story was sad, I had a friend who was a 300 pound Black man and was out with several other line backers from his football team partying in Brooklyn on St. Patricks Day, all of a sudden a gang of Irishmen saw them, seems they were in an Irish neighborhood, this was a famous case back in the 80&#39;s, the Irish men got a car and hunted down the Black men like they were hunting buffalo or some crazy ass shit, my friend escaped hiding in a phone booth, but saw his friend gunned down right in front of him. Crazy shit, just because he was Black and in the wrong neighborhood, and it was St. Patrick&#39;s Day, my friend still shook when he told me that story, which is a lot from a 325 pd. Black man, but then when one is that size one doesn&#39;t expect to get hit except on the battlefield which he had also witnessed.

Either way you can&#39;t make judgements on a culture, but you need to understand a history of a culture when looking at why people act certain ways. Particularly Irish Liberation, that is sorely contested pro and con even in Irish Ireland. So I certainly don&#39;t expect illumination here.

As far as sell outs on Fox news, thats about the money.

[LaVictoria]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2005, 10:01 PM

and there&#39;s a teacher, who said that Stalin was way worse than Hitler....

he killed more than hitler, according to soviet records signed by himself.
I know, and I&#39;m not saying that I&#39;m this &#39;big-fan&#39; of Stalin. but this is typical for capitalists to say. that&#39;s the only thing they see about communism, the first stage, and then they think that every communist-leader kills &#39;everybody&#39; who stands in his way.

[cccpcommie]

ill shoot who ever in the face if they didnt agree...your telling me you would give them tea? :o

[bed_of_nails]

Give them tea only if it is accompanied by Crumpets.